Understanding the Schengen Travel arrangements.

[Eddie Riley]

Hello,

We returned from a five week trip to France last week. Having had our passports stamped by French customs officials in Calais, we asked the UK Border Force Officials what advice they might be able to give on our remaining time in the Schengen area, and the balance of our 90 days. We were met with chuckles, and statements like "We are not interested in that, we don't have any records on our system about that". A second official trying to be helpful, said our 90 days was "set at the first Schengen date stamp on our passports and we had to use the balance up, if we wanted within the 180 days from that very first entry date." 

We had been to Spain in late May to mid June so his view was our 180 days would have begun from the May passport stamp date on our passports upon entering Spain.

I believe that interpretation is incorrect.

So can I take advice please? My understanding from the UK Government website is that the 180 day period is a reset period not a fixed one. It in effect is a movable date. So we had 35 days in France, leaving us with 55 days to use. If we say decide to go to Germany for the Christmas Markets in December, then we have to identify our leaving date from Schengen. We then count back 180 days to reset the time period.

So if we leave France and return to the UK on Saturday 10 December, our 180 days has to be counted back from that date, which takes us back to June 13, 2022. Our Spanish trip was before June 13 so it is not counted. We then total up our days in the Schengen area after 13 June, which in our case was 35 days. Plus say 7 days for the Christmas market trip, giving a total used and planned trip of 42 days. 

We have 48 days after that still to use.

Am I loopy here? And if I am correct will the French customs understand this is how it works. God knows.

Has anyone any experience of this please as my mind is boggled by the complexity of all of this?

[stevec176]

I think you might be incorrect in your calculations.  The 180 days are rolling days so as it says any 90 days in a 180 day period. There are a few on line Schengen calculators which should help you.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/visa-calculator/

[Eddie Riley]

Hi Steve, Thank you for the calculator reference. I will have a look recalculate.

Eddie.

[Brian Kirby]

Eddie, do have a play with Steve's calculator.

Also, do bear in mind that if you haven't spent any time in the Schengen zone during the previous 90 consecutive days (remembering that not all EU states are in Schengen, while some non-EU states are - for example Switzerland), your allowances reset, so any time spent in Schengen within the previous 180 days ceases to count.

In principle, on the day you enter Schengen, the border guard will look in your passport for any record of time spent in Schengen within the previous 180 days.  If you have spent time in Schengen within that period, your remaining entitlement will be 90 days - those earlier days.  Hence the 90-35=55 days left calculation in your above post.

Should you decide to do your Christmas markets trip, the border guard will look in your passport for time spent in Schengen during the preceding 180 days and, if any of the 35 days spent earlier in the year fall within the preceding 180 days, your new allowance will be 90 minus the sum of those earlier days.  So, if all of the earlier days were within the preceding 180 days then your remaining allowance will be as above: 90-35=55, but if only 5 of those earlier days were within the preceding 180 days, your remaining allowance would be 90-5=85 days.  But, if 90 or more days have passed since your return to UK from your earlier trip then, as above, your new allowance will reset to the full 90 days.

While actually in Schengen the same rules apply, so if on a given day immigration stopped you and challenged you as to the duration of your stay, they would look back 180 days from that day - not from the date you entered Schengen.  The same applies when leaving Schengen.  The border guard will look in your passport for time spent in Schengen during the preceding 180 days and, if the total exceeds 90 days, you're in the poo!  😞

But, the guard can only count days actually spent in Schengen during the 180 days preceding the day of your departure, so if any of the days already spent in Schengen were more than 180 days prior to the day of your departure, they do not count.

This latter point is why it is so important to get your passport stamped as you leave Schengen, even if to a non-Schengen EU state, as otherwise you will be assumed to have spent the whole of the time since you entered Schengen, in Schengen.  It is quite possible that crossing the Schengen border within the EU to enter a non-Schengen EU state (Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia and Cyprus), or re-entering Schengen from a non-Schengen EU state, may present difficulties, as the open state borders within the EU may not be fully manned, or not open 24/7.  Something to check if planning to travel to non-Schengen EU states.  (Although in the EU, Ireland is non-Schengen, but travel to Ireland for UK citizens is governed separately under the Common Travel Area, but in any case, does not necessitate crossing the Schengen border.)

Hope this helps a bit!!