importing 4.600kg-privatehgv-is plating required?

[Hughmer]

 

Has anybody personally imported a =>4.600kg m/c ? When you registered it, -what classification did you get PLG or PHGV

 

If you got phgv, - was plating required? If so when did all this happen?

 

Thanks

[Mel E]

Any motorhome over 3500Kgs MA/GVW is registered in the UK as Private HGV. The GVW/MAM is shown on the vehicle plate already fitted to the vehicle.

 

To legally drive such a vehicle you must have the Driving Licence category C1. Since 01.01.1997, newly qualified drivers do not get this automatically but must take extra tests.

 

For full details on how to import a vehicle, you really ought to get the MMM Fact Sheet. To obtain the 10 page Fact Sheet (just under 10,000 words of close-packed wisdom!), you should send an SAE (C5 size - takes a folded-once sheet of A4) to:

 

MPEastburn Fact Sheet

MMM Editorial Dept

PO Box 88

Tiverton

Devon EX16 7ZN

 

enclosing a note with any specific queries you have and a cheque for at least £7 payable to 'MacIntyre Care' which is my favourite charity - they care for children and adults with severe learning difficulties. The Fact Sheet also contains a two-page supplement on 'Buying in Germany', and many have used it to buy there.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

 

[Hughmer]

I have your fact sheet Mel, and with respect to your advice applied for PHGV on the V55/5, which I submitted to Wimbledon DVLA a few days ago.

 

I heard from the import team earlier today saying that phgv could only apply if I got the vehicle plated and it would have to show axle weights etc.

 

Mine has a plate inside the door but the inspector didn't check this (!) so I supplied a copy of the CoC which also confirms axle loads and MAM.

 

The import clerk referred the matter upwards and even though there is no argument about what the CoC says ... it has been confirmed that ... "as most motorcaravans are 3.5 tons or less we always register them as PLGs"...... Honest that's what she said.

 

I tried to argue the case because I am worried about the conflict that will surely be exposed if I'm ever stopped by European police.

 

On the other hand if it is registered as a PLG and I sell it to a septogenarian will s/he be entitled to drive it legally without all the extra health checks???

 

So back to my question. - has anyone had similar problems and what did you do?

 

[Pat]

Hi I recently imported a year 2000 Monaco Windsor 34' RV gross weight nearly 12 tons from America, I had it mot'd at a local mot station (not a VOSA test station) that can accept such a large vehicle, I filled in the relevent forms and presented them to our local vehicle taxation office at the PHGV classification, it was registered there and then, no problem!I did not need to get it plated!

 

However because it is over 7500kgs gross weight despite what some dealers say you must have an LGV licence in order to drive such a vehicle! Although there are many out there driving illegally!! I dare say the Insurance Companies would deny liability if God forbid (Sorry Roy) an accident should happen!!!

 

Regards Pat

[Brian Kirby]

Peter

When you talk of getting your van "plated", do you mean plated down in weight to 3,500Kg? 

If you do, and you did this, I suspect you'd have no legally usable payload.  If you then ignored the 3,500Kg plate and loaded it to the 4,600Kg chassis limit, legally you'd be overloaded wherever you may be, UK or Europe.

I think your DVLA import clerk is talking rubbish, and just doesn't know his/her job adequately.  I think you need to pull together the relevant facts regarding the vehicle, including the CoC and if possible a photo of the maker's plate which, since you say the vehicle has a CoC I assume is from a European maker/converter, and will give the VIN, the MAM, the maximum axle loads, and gross train weight. 

Then, try to get a meet with someone more senior at the local office.  The correct designation on the V5 is PHG (or PHGV).  If it is not, I think you are right to be concerned: PLG on the V5 will imply 3,500Kg, the vehicle plate will say 4,600Kg, and someone will think either the V5 belongs to another vehicle, or has been falsified following theft, or possibly for road tax avoidance or some such scam.

[Derek Uzzell]

Leaflet V355/1 ("Notes About Taxation Classes") is available from DVLA offices and provides general guidance on this subject.

 

This leaflet reveals why motorcaravans up to 3500kg maximum overall weight continue to be assigned to the Private/Light Goods taxation class - essentially it's because none of the other classes is appropriate.

 

V355/1 also distinguishes between the HGV and Private/HGV classes. Basically, if a goods vehicle has a "revenue weight" over 3500kg and is to be used laden for COMMERCIAL purposes then it falls into the HGV class. But if it is to be used unladen, for driver training purposes or PRIVATELY then it should be licensed as Private/HGV.

 

The P/HGV class is currently taxed at a flat rate of £165 per annum, whereas the rate for HGV-class vehicles varies according to weight and vehicle type. Many (most?) HGVs are subject to UK Plating and Testing Regulations that, amongst other things, determine the vehicle's "confirmed maximum weight" on which is based the appropriate excise duty. (Brian: This is the "plating" thing Hughmer's DVLA office is talking about. It's got nothing to do with 'down plating' a motorcaravan into the up-to-3500kg class.)

 

Hughmer: Motorcaravans continue to be exempt from Type Approval as far as UK registration regulations are concerned. So, even though your vehicle is Type Approved and has a Certificate of Conformity to prove it, this fact is academic. As Brian says, the vehicle's VIN-plate will provide overall, train and axle weight-maxima and it's the first of these figures that defines whether a motorcaravan is first registered in the UK as P/LGV or P/HGV. It's irrelevant whether the motorcaravan is imported or 'home grown' in Great Britain - if the overall maximum weight of the vehicle exceeds 3500kg then it should be UK-registered as P/HGV; if its overall maximum weight is up-to-3500kg then it should be UK-registered as P/LGV.

 

There's no doubt that Wimbledon DVLA are interpreting UK registration regulations perversely in your case. Rather than complicate the issue, I suggest you merely refer them to the Private/HGV paragraph in Form V355/1 and emphasise the fact that all other over-3500kg motorcaravans in the UK are registered in this taxation class and do not require 'plating'. (My dealer friend regularly imports 'heavy' motorhomes and has just brought in a 5200kg Hobby Sphinx. These are always UK-registered in the Private/HGV class)

 

You may also find useful the "Vehicle Excise Duty - Motorhomes?" forum thread of 29 June 2006. (Search forum on Keywords = Vehicle Excise Duty, Author = Derek Uzzell, Date Limit = One Year).

[Mel E]

Hughmer,

 

Sorry - I don't remember everyone who gets the Fact Sheet. The facts are incontrovertible:

 

- it has a MAM over 3500 Kgs, which means it has to be registered at PHGV

- the original chassis vehicle plate, complete with the VIN number shown on the V55 to be entered on the V5, presumable shows this weight as well as the original axle weights

- as Brian says, 'dowplating' it to 3500 Kgs will not work because, if stopped by the police, you will inevitably be overweight - anyway, you don't want to

- if the vehicle plate shows a MAM of over 3500Kgs then you must have a C1 licence to drive it, regardless of how it is registered.

 

DVLA are wrong and, as Brian says, you need to speak to someone there in authority and with experience.

 

I'm afraid I have come across this sort of problem before - it's because motorhomes are such a tiny percentage of what the register each year - 10,000 vehicles out of around 3 million. You just have to persevere.

 

Mel E

====

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks for the further info Derek.  Since V355/1 is not downloadable (but why?) I've asked DVLA to send me a copy, since it seems it may be a useful little document.  

Thanks also for the clarification about "plating", I really can't understand why even a local DVLA office should be causing this kind of confusion.  I accept Mel's point that motorhomes are a small proportion of all registered vehicles but, even so, I'd have hoped some lights might have switched on.  It's not as though they can't look up the procedures, they have all the necessary references to hand!

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

"I've asked DVLA to send me a copy,"

 

you will wait months then get 2 or 3 copies :-(

 

as for Wimbledon office, avoid!

 

go to Sidcup

[Hughmer]

Derek, could you explain what you understand to be revenue weight? It came up in my conversation this morning 3 May with DVLA Swansea. 1st the clerk said it was "probably" unladen weight, and after I insisted she checked with her manager she said it was the same as the MAM shown on the plate.

 

I will try and attach file after posting to see if I can publish a pic of the plate on my truck.

[Hughmer]

Brian

I managed to post a pic of the plate elsewhere in this thread. I'm more than happy to keep a 4.6 ton mam. I think the DVLA is talking rubbish too but the clerk at W'don has sought guidance from the specialists in Swansea where "Ann" has confirmed it has to be a PLG.

 

I am running out of time on my VIN comp insurance (MotorcaravanWise) who have already kindly extended the deadline which expired today. They don't like insuring on VIN indefinitely and want a UK reg Number by Tuesday latest or will withdraw cover. So if I don't get a number pdq I won't be able to insure the vehicle. I am therefore obliged to accept the PLG status (which is to be issued tomorrow and try to get it reclassed PHGV later.

 

I have offered twice to send the VIN pic to W'don but they are not interested because they say they take instructions from Swansea. The chance of meeting someone senior is 0%.

 

I have written to my MP who has been very helpful in the past. He's very good at rattling cages

[Brian Kirby]

Peter

The plate shows:

MAM: 4,600Kg.

GTW: 6,600KG.

1st axle (front) 1,750Kg.

2nd axle (rear) 3,200Kg.

In that order, reading down. 

Have you tried ringing Swansea yourself?  You may have more luck talking to someone directly (you may have to hang on for a while though, I did to order my V355/1).  Explain the situation and the reason for the urgency.  If you have names of people you have spoken to locally, ask them if they can ring your local office and sort them out.  If you haven't got the local names, get the name of the person you're speaking to in Swansea, and ask them if you can refer your local office back to them for the correct answer.  Then, back to your local office and ask them to refer accordingly, if necessary refering them to their copy of V355/1, a copy of which they are supposed a) to have, and b) to be able to provide you with.

If you get no help, ask to speak to an SEO, or equivalent grade officer, at the local office.  They must take you, and your query seriously, and the senior staff have to come forward if the more junior staff can't cope.  If you hit obstruction, ask for names and just be quietly insintant.

Nearly forgot!  Revenue weight is for goods vehicles.  As yours will be a private vehicle, to be classed PHGV or PHG, to the best of my knowledge, the revenue weight is not relevant.

[Hughmer]

 

Brian

You are quite sure that this is the "PLATE" around which all discussion revolve? I can see the 4600 and i've always assumed it to be MAM but it doesn't actually say so nor train weight either.

 

hughmer

[Brian Kirby]

It is an EC standard plate, insofar as the information it carries, and the order in which it is displayed, are concerned. 

However, take a look at Derek's post above, for the explanation of the "plate" your DVLA informants appear to be talking about.  As Derek says, that "plate" would only be relevant to an HGV in commercial use, which your 'van clearly is not.  That is where the designation Private/HGV, PGHV or PHG comes from.  It seems almost any of these descriptions may be used on the V5. 

However, as time is pressing, you could always let them have their own way, do it as PLG, and then, armed with the relevant info from the V355/1 leaflet, challenge the description entered on the V5, when you get it (it may even turn up with the correct designation entered if someone has been vigilant!).  If necessary, the V5 can be changed once issued, so you could then write a letter to DVLA, explaining the struggle you've had, and enclosing the V5, (keep a photocopy, though, preferably a colour one!) with the relevant change section filled in. 

At least that way you'd satisfy your insurers, which seem the No 1 priority for you at present.  Getting the V5 corrected is desirable, but seem a lower priority for you currently that just getting one!

[Derek Uzzell]

Hughmer:

 

If you GOOGLE-search using "plating and testing regulations" (omitting the quotes) you should find what you want (and will probably wish you never asked!!)

[Hughmer]

Guess what...

 

Collected the V5 today. VED class = PHGV

 

Thanks for all your advice and encouragement

 

[Brian Kirby]

Well done!  Street legal.  Now all you have to do is go out and play with it!

[eljay]

Hi Folks,

 

On a "log book"-related issue, I have a tag-axle m'home and yet the V5 states "WHEELPLAN - 2-AXLE-RIGID-BODY". When I queried this with the salesman at the dealership he went off and consulted colleagues with the concensus being that this was normal. I also queried it with the DVLA in a letter on another issue, but they didn't answer that part. What do other owners have on their V5 document?

 

Your comments welcome.

 

John

[Hughmer]

John

Sorry to pass over your request for info. I have no experience to share.

 

For the amusement of other contributors to this thread (and to expose the DVLA shambles) I've attached a pic of the envelope collected from Wimbledon.

[Mel E]

John,

 

It should be described as '3 axle rigid body' because that is clearly what it is. Get the V5 changed.

 

Mel E

====

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2007-05-03 11:16 AM "I've asked DVLA to send me a copy," you will wait months then get 2 or 3 copies :-( as for Wimbledon office, avoid! go to Sidcup

Well, me'Lud, the requested document arrived this morning and is very interesting, in a boring sort of way!  Just the one copy as well.

Re Derek's V5, at least they did go away and check again, and acknowledged their earlier mistake.  I agree the duff information was frustrating and time wasting, but someone seems to have been trying to make amends, albeit in a rather untidy way!  Small mercies, and I bet she (from the writing, possibly a young she?) won't make the same mistake again!

[Derek Uzzell]

Whatcha mean "Derek's V5"?

 

Funny how the DVLA comes in for for so much criticism, yet all one needs do is browse through some the stuff on forums (not just the motorhome ones) to be greeted by cock-eyed ideas, perverse logic, weird hypotheses and mistaken beliefs. Fortunately, being omniscient and infallible, I'm immune to such flaws and can be tolerant of lesser mortals' minor errors.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2007-05-07 7:51 AM Whatcha mean "Derek's V5"? .

Oops, senior moment!  I meant Peter's V5! 

But I agree, I also think they get far too much unthinking stick.  I overheard a couple of very abusive customers at our local DVLA office, and the cause was not rudeness or inadequacy of the staff, or inaccurate answers, just sheer bloody mindedness of the great British public, who representatives didn't like the (correct) answers they'd just received!

You don't get the best out of people if you attack them, somehow they just loose their desire to co-operate!