Guest starspirit Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 As a long time dedicated anti fixed bed-ist I am now beginning to wonder? We do like long settees to lounge out on in the evenings but we can see the advantages of a fixed bed with it's huge underfloor storage capability. So if we only had a half dinette for meals and short term sitting and then used the fixed bed as one big sofa could we get away with a shorter more nimble van? Any thoughts folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 To be able to answer I have to ask "how long is yours" (turn away now ladies), then we'll know what we're looking at. However, in the meantime, if the answer to that question is much over 6M, I'd say you may get some advantage from a half dinette and fixed rear bed. The most verastile versions seem to run at around 6M, a few down to 5.75M or so, but with reduced storage.The other question is width. I believe yours may be under 2.3M, excluding mirrors? Many, though not all, of the potential candidates are 2.3M + mirrors. If that would be a problem, the field narrows, but there are still a number to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 fixed bed? yes always. a big permanent bed with proper beech slat frame and mattress - IMHO far more comfortable and convenient then rear lounge. like you say, its not just a bed in can be used to lounge on as well we have a large rear garage under ours which I thought would be impossible to fill, but after this weekends first voyage it is surprising the amount of stuff it can swallow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Judge, I hope you're not overloading that garage!! Most are limited to 200 Kgs by structural considerations - and many to less than that because of overloading the rear axle. As to fixed beds, you can certainly get a decent sized one with a half dinette, a decent bathroom and kitchen into a good panel van conversion. This will be under 6 metres long and a good foot narrower than a coach built. As I always put it, white van man manages to deliver into even the most inaccessible of small and ancient town centres. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Mel E - 2007-05-09 1:16 PM Judge, I hope you're not overloading that garage!! Mel E ==== no I don't think so, nothing particularly heavy, more awkward. no need to use bike rack as four bikes disappear with ease (50kg total) no need to fold up aerial or tailormade screen. small chest fridge/bags of shoes and dirty washing... table & chairs, couple of containers with bits and pieces - I would guess about 150kg in total. will get to weighbridge when I can get everyone in one place at the same time - for a definitive weigh in. but on initial visit (unloaded except for fuel gas water etc...) rear axle was 1680 kg and plate says rear axle capacity 2250kg. so I would think 200kg will be fine garage so big kids want to convert it to a third bedroom :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b6x Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Must admit, the fixed bed was a seller for me. Some people think it's a waste of space and limits "lounging" areas, but for me personally, my lounging around consists of laying horizontal reading a book / watching TV - so why not use a fixed bed for that. (although I'd prefer to be lounging outside in the sun when possible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 This is a source of continual disagreement beween me and my wife when looking at new vans, she likes them I hate them. Our compramise would be, in the unlikely event of us changing our current M/home, an EB (end bedroom) layout as this can be left made up if that was your desire but still has the capability of being used as a more useful area than just a mobile bedroom. The storage has never been an issue in our case so does not have consideration. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Basil, The solution for you would be an A Class with a cab bed that pulls down really low for ease of access - ours was a simple step up onto the settee and a smaller step onto the bed. You can leave the bed made up and yet you still have all the lounging space in daytime. With smaller vehicles, such as van conversions, however, pull down beds sacrifice so much storage space (no upper cupboards) and are so difficult to get into / out of that they are really a none-starter. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 starspirit - 2007-05-09 10:44 AM As a long time dedicated anti fixed bed-ist I am now beginning to wonder? We do like long settees to lounge out on in the evenings but we can see the advantages of a fixed bed with it's huge underfloor storage capability. So if we only had a half dinette for meals and short term sitting and then used the fixed bed as one big sofa could we get away with a shorter more nimble van? Any thoughts folks? Hi richard When we first made the break from twin settees to fixed bed we did have some doubts but, after use, all have disappeared. The Sun Ti 650 MF has a dinette (which is the other thing we initially thought we would not get on with) and we find the Aguti seats so comfortable for travel and lounging that these are the first choice for relaxing - feet up lounging is still possible by utilising the forward dinette sofa and the side sofa behind the drivers seat. Then there is the bed of course for daytime lounging too. The two main benefits (after not wrestling with an amalgam of cushions) is that the kitchen and lounge are available for one crew member to use when the other wishes to lie in late or go to bed early. Ours is not a high transverse bed but a higher than usual longitudinal one which gives a great storage space without being too dangerous for us to negotiate in the wee small hours...........! We didn't want a large garage for bikes or scooter so the large 'shed' is just right. At just over 22' it might be longer than you were thinking of but we originally thought the smaller (20') 600LF version would be the one we chose. This has a similar bed and a nearside 'L' shape sofa but, instead of a side facing sofa onthe offside, the kitchen is there. When we viewed both side by side and weighed up what each one offered we went for the slightly longer 650MF as it offered so much more within the extra 2' and, in use, we don't find it restrictive when touring, parking etc. and as for economy we are getting an average of just under 28mpg with only 4500 miles on so far. The other thought , if you don't mind the high transverse beds, is the 'in between' models now being produced by Knaus, Hobby, Hymer etc usually known as 'Van' something or other. These are around the 6m mark and are all narrower than a traditional coachbuilt. I know there are polarised views on the subject but for some, including us, the fixed bed arrangement is a definite must have now. Regards, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Basil , let your wife win the day personally I love the fixed bed and hubby too. The reason we couldn't face making up the back bed every night. enough to deal with children wise. Also I suffer with my kidneys and have had lots of admissions to hospital problem solved for a long time I hope 8-) Anyway nice when I was sick just to climb into bed on one level one time I was so sick (suffer with renal colic you see .) I couldn't of climbed no where let alone wait for him to make up the bed . It's good to Watch TV also just to have a snooze on as and when . Would not swop that lay out . after all what van does not have a sitting area /dining ? so nice to lay down when you want ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 Our first fixed bed van, Rapido 709F was only 5.5 metres long, offside half dinette with kitchen opposite, lengthways fixed bed in nearside corner with offiside rear combined toilet/shower compartment. Lovely van and did us proud for over 3.5 years. Our current van, Rimor 645TC at 7.14 metres long has a twin dinette with transverse fixed bed with garage below. I must admit that the bed in the Rimor is wider so if I was looking for another fixed bed model I'd stick with a transverse bed as the lengthways ones (can't spell longitudinal ... ooh!!) usually are that bit narrower. We use our bed as a lounging area to watch TV, read, slob out etc, much comfier than any normal seating you'll find in a motorhome, even the ones with the nice rear lounges, you still sit fairly upright in them. A few large cushions and it's like a nice snug boudoir ... it's also a great place to dump your shopping etc to save having to constantly put it all away as you tootle around during the day. We did seriously contemplate having a rear lounge only and no fixed bed when we were looking to change earlier this year but it was just too much of a compromise to loose all the storage space and being able to slob out without a load of cusion shuffling and bed making (can't stand sleeping bags and duvets take up a fair bit of space). So that's why we got the Rimor instead. As has been said, there are quite a lot of vans about with fixed rear beds so there's certainly a lot of choice, much more than when we bought our Rapido 4 years ago now. Rich - have a good look round and make sure you try getting in and out of the beds properly, some are absolute pains, and also make sure that if you go for a longitudinal one that you check that when there's bedding on you can definitely get in to the washroom, many of them have such a small gap once the door is open you'd have to pull in your beer belly!!!!! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Thank you one and all for your invaluable views. On balance we think we will try a fixed bed van next but the bed wants to be as far over 4'0" wide as we can get and preferably without a dollop missing at the foot end. We also would like a backrest to aid lounging rather than leaning back on a window - which is never a good idea! I suppose I could always get a loose padded headboard and just lay it flat during the day? The point about floppy bedding fouling the loo door at night on a lengthwise bed is very valid here too - thanks Mel - so that suggests transverse might suit us best? Only question now is does size matter? Panel van, Coachbuilt or A Class? I tend to think it will probably be a coachbuilt as they do seem to offer better vfm and be more readily available than either a panel van or an A Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 rear beds over a garage tend to be wider/more comfortable, ours in 1500mm wide a kink size I think. only downside is having to climb over one and other*-) In theory I prefer the layout of longitudinal beds - but because bathroom need to be next to it they tend to be quite narrow 1200 - 1350. plus you lose the convenience of a large storage space and bathroom tends to be awkward as well if you go for a bed above garage be careful as many have compromised headroom - one of the reasons we went for a hightop. what vans have you on your shortlist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 JudgeMental - 2007-05-11 3:20 PM rear beds over a garage tend to be wider/more comfortable, ours in 1500mm wide a kink size I think. only downside is having to climb over one and other*-) Interesting typo (if it is a typo of course??) considering the last comment!! :-D :-D :-D Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Basil - 2007-05-11 4:37 PM Interesting typo (if it is a typo of course??) considering the last comment!! :-D :-D :-D Bas :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 Two further points. The longitudinal bed with washroom alongside means either a narrow bed, a narrow washroom, a narrow both, or the van will be around 2.3 metres wide. This may somewhat restrict where you can take it."A" class vans, as I've been discovering, are generally heavier, in MIRO terms, than similar coachbuilts. To get a realistic payload, therefore, it seems you must also specify a MAM over 3,500Kg. That also has implications for speed limits, driving licence, and cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted May 11, 2007 Share Posted May 11, 2007 No specific vans in mind but lwb panel van or medium coachbuilt seem favourite. However a visit to the Stratford show might change all of that? I don't really want to go over 3500kg as there seem to be plenty to choose from without that need? The Starspirit at 6.375mtrs (inc bumper) is quite long enough for exploring and whilst the handling of it gives me no problems at all the parking of it can be entertaining so I don't yet see the need to get a longer one (van that is). We prefer not to go upstairs to bed (too many years in a bungalow I suppose) and as we don't need a massive vertical storage height garage there seems little point in choosing one of they? And so the field of choice narrows until one day we exclude every van ever made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 http://www.auto-trail.co.uk/images/floorplans/miami740slo-line.gifWe have found our Auto-Trail Miami to be the best layout for fixed beds. It does mean that the van is 24' but there is loads of room. The front will make up into a double but the seperate bedroom area is great The beds are 29" wide and very comfortable.We have had caravans with the rear double bed next to the bathroom but you end up climbing over each other and there is no privacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 I take it that what is shown in the rear is two fixed, longitudinal, singles? (At first sight, they look a bit like a couple of side facing sofas.) However, 7 metres is a bit long for the average village car park, so I assume part of the oncost of that length is the Smart for local touring, and the trailer to tow it on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 Hi BrianWe only tow the car in the UK and only then if we are staying on a site for any length of time - visiting family usually. It is not on a trailer but on an 'A' frame but it is a nuisance if we are touring so we use it as second car most of the time. We don't have a problem with the length anywhere except in the UK which is the most unfriendly country for MH's. We keep going to Ireland which is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 A very interesting debate with a clear preference for a fixed bed - just as well since the current offerings almost universally have gone for this option. Personally for 2 up touring I'm with Mel B and am yet to find a more perfect layout than the over cab/A class arrangement. The fact that the bed "disappears" from the floor plan when not in use while eliminating the need for bed making and compromising on comfort is perhaps the most innovative/elegant solution ever coming from the industry and long may they remain available. Vernon B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 I knew if I kept chanting 'adria twin, adria twin' it would get to you eventualy (lol) but sitting up leaning back against the wall may need some creative use of cushioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted May 12, 2007 Share Posted May 12, 2007 We had a permanent bed in our previous motorhome and loved it. Then moved on to an A Class with its drop down bed and find it a much inferior system. On most A Class vans you have to rearrange and fold down the driver/passenger seats, you cannot sit up and read in comfort, and the inner person has a real struggle to get over and out from on high. The other thing that you do not see mentioned is the heat problem from sleeping right under the roof in hot weather. Granted it frees up space if you have a smallish van and need the extra space but that is about all it has going for it as far as we are concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAubyns Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 we have a fixed bed - Uk king size - over the cab with plenty of head room, a full dinette, a full length settee, rear kitchen with oven & fridge, shower/toilet cubicle, wardrobe, blown air heating all in 5.5 metres. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 StAubyns - 2007-05-13 12:25 PM we have a fixed bed - Uk king size - over the cab with plenty of head room, a full dinette, a full length settee, rear kitchen with oven & fridge, shower/toilet cubicle, wardrobe, blown air heating all in 5.5 metres. Geoff Well, aren't you going to tell us what it is or is it a secret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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