LNB position

[Randonneur]

We have been away for the last few days and tried out a new FTA digital receiver. We set the dish for Astra 2 and after some messing about finally got the correct stations. On the 3rd day (Angouleme - Charente area) we tried again but were unable to receive anything, nothing in the way trees etc.

 

According to all info on various sites the elevation should be about 30 deg and about 142 compass reading. On the first and second nights our elevation was 41/42 deg.

 

We are using a Teleco manual crankup dish, already fitted when we bought the van. We are wondering if in fact the problems we have experienced in the past in trying to set up our Sky didigbox and also this new box is due to maybe having to alter the alignment of the LNB. It would seem, on the surface, that our dish is out by about 12 degrees in elevation.

 

I have just had a look on www.astra.lu and put in the Lat & Long for Poitiers, which is not that far away, and again it comes up as elevation of 30 deg.

 

Anybody any ideas?

[Bazza454]

Randonneur - 2007-05-10 1:04 PM We have been away for the last few days and tried out a new FTA digital receiver. We set the dish for Astra 2 and after some messing about finally got the correct stations. On the 3rd day (Angouleme - Charente area) we tried again but were unable to receive anything, nothing in the way trees etc. According to all info on various sites the elevation should be about 30 deg and about 142 compass reading. On the first and second nights our elevation was 41/42 deg. We are using a Teleco manual crankup dish, already fitted when we bought the van. We are wondering if in fact the problems we have experienced in the past in trying to set up our Sky didigbox and also this new box is due to maybe having to alter the alignment of the LNB. It would seem, on the surface, that our dish is out by about 12 degrees in elevation. I have just had a look on www.astra.lu and put in the Lat & Long for Poitiers, which is not that far away, and again it comes up as elevation of 30 deg. Anybody any ideas?

Hi,

Try this site (link attached), hopefully it should have the info you require.

http://www.satelliteforcaravans.co.uk/

[Randonneur]

I have printed most of the pages on the satlliteforcaravans website. Again on there it states elevation 30 deg. Took all printed bits with us as they live in the van. Which makes me think that the dish is out either vertically or the LNB is out. There is a scale in the wardrobe on the pole that is attached to the dish, going off this the first two nights the elevation was 42 deg. That is the reason I am asking if anyone knows anything about the LNB positions.

[Basil]

Being an unsuccesful sattelite user (or rather notas I've given up on it now) this is something I have wondered about with these crank up dishes.

Not sure about the Teleco dish, but assuming it is the same as the Maxview crankup and you set the elevation on the dial inside the motorhome, I have always wondered if the motorhome is not perfectly level how can the dial reading give an accurate elevation setting?

Surely if the van was tipped by say 12 degrees would that not also transfer to the dish settings? Could this be a part of your problem?

 

Bas

[Randonneur]

Did think about that as well but in Angoleme we were on an aire that was totally flat, met an English chap from Leeds who had an Oyster automatic dish and had no problem at all.

[derek500]

Basil - 2007-05-10 5:42 PM

 

Being an unsuccesful sattelite user (or rather notas I've given up on it now) this is something I have wondered about with these crank up dishes.

Not sure about the Teleco dish, but assuming it is the same as the Maxview crankup and you set the elevation on the dial inside the motorhome, I have always wondered if the motorhome is not perfectly level how can the dial reading give an accurate elevation setting?

Surely if the van was tipped by say 12 degrees would that not also transfer to the dish settings? Could this be a part of your problem?

 

Bas

 

Very true Basil, The elevation figures can only be used as a rough guide.

 

You can only use trial and error. Best to get the direction first with the compass and then go back and forth adjusting the height slightly each time.

 

I'v had no problems with my Maxview Crankup. The point you made was one of my initial worries when I considered the purchase, but they were unfounded.

 

As far as LNB adjustment goes, I assume the factory setting is for NW Europe. I've only used mine in Spain and have not needed to adjust it.

[Basil]

Randonneur - 2007-05-10 4:57 PM

 

Did think about that as well but in Angoleme we were on an aire that was totally flat, met an English chap from Leeds who had an Oyster automatic dish and had no problem at all.

 

I can see that the Oyster would compensate automatically, still not sure with the crank ups, though from Dereks post it would seem not to be a problem and also does not seem to be your problem from your 'Flat Aire' experience.

 

Derek,

 

That is what has stopped me going for the crank up type as when I got my portable dish set up everyone said 'it's just trial and error' but I have only ever managed to get a sat once, and that was a continental (Italian or German I think, some outrageous entertainment on there though!!), so the whole thing is ditched and sitting in the front room at home unused and unloved now.

 

Bas

[derek500]

Basil - 2007-05-10 6:13 PM

 

Randonneur - 2007-05-10 4:57 PM

 

Did think about that as well but in Angoleme we were on an aire that was totally flat, met an English chap from Leeds who had an Oyster automatic dish and had no problem at all.

 

I can see that the Oyster would compensate automatically, still not sure with the crank ups, though from Dereks post it would seem not to be a problem and also does not seem to be your problem from your 'Flat Aire' experience.

 

Derek,

 

That is what has stopped me going for the crank up type as when I got my portable dish set up everyone said 'it's just trial and error' but I have only ever managed to get a sat once, and that was a continental (Italian or German I think, some outrageous entertainment on there though!!), so the whole thing is ditched and sitting in the front room at home unused and unloved now.

 

Bas

 

When I say trial and error I'm talking of inside a minute. With the Lidl suitcase maybe up to ten minutes.

 

The beauty of the Crankup is that you can see the TV whilst you're adjusting it.

[Terrytraveller]

Hi Sylvia,

 

I recommend you use an analog satfinder, that's the satfinder with a dial and a needle. It can be very awkward to set up manually operated dishes without a satfinder, sometimes you get a signal straight away if you are lucky, othertimes it might take 30 mins or you give up.

 

We are with friends in Holland at the moment, our friends spent about an hour without getting the dish pointing in the correct direction. He bought a analog sat finder from across the road for 29 euros, and set up the dish in under two mins.

 

The analog meter has a sensitivity control, when this is turned to max sensitivity the satfinder will detect a satellite when its near the satellite, so its easier to find a satellite initially. Once full scale deflection (FSD) is displayed, the sensitivity control is backed off and the dish again moved slightly until FSD or peaking of the needle is obtained. This procedure is carried out moving the dish both left and right and up and down until the highest possible reading is obtained on the scale.

 

I have been using this method of finding a satellite for around 6 years now and always found the 2D satellite we use.

 

Regards Terry

[michele]

Terry,

you know when I saw this thread I wondered where you were isn't it funny how some people seem to have specialised knowledge.

I expect sylvia & Martin will be grteful for that info.

 

I hope you enjoy your holidays happy travels ;-)

[derek500]

Terrytraveller - 2007-05-10 7:12 PM

 

Hi Sylvia,

 

I recommend you use an analog satfinder, that's the satfinder with a dial and a needle. It can be very awkward to set up manually operated dishes without a satfinder, sometimes you get a signal straight away if you are lucky, othertimes it might take 30 mins or you give up.

 

We are with friends in Holland at the moment, our friends spent about an hour without getting the dish pointing in the correct direction. He bought a analog sat finder from across the road for 29 euros, and set up the dish in under two mins.

 

The analog meter has a sensitivity control, when this is turned to max sensitivity the satfinder will detect a satellite when its near the satellite, so its easier to find a satellite initially. Once full scale deflection (FSD) is displayed, the sensitivity control is backed off and the dish again moved slightly until FSD or peaking of the needle is obtained. This procedure is carried out moving the dish both left and right and up and down until the highest possible reading is obtained on the scale.

 

I have been using this method of finding a satellite for around 6 years now and always found the 2D satellite we use.

 

Regards Terry

 

The FTA box in the Lidl suitcase does just that, without the need for a separate sat finder. Good idea though if you're using a Sky box as there is delay between moving the dish and the status bars reacting and it doesn't have a tone (handy if you can't see the TV).

 

Lidl/Aldi do them now and again for about 6 Euros. I use one at home when I'm adjusting my 1.9m dish.

[Randonneur]

Terrytraveller - 2007-05-10 7:12 PM

 

Hi Sylvia,

 

I recommend you use an analog satfinder, that's the satfinder with a dial and a needle. It can be very awkward to set up manually operated dishes without a satfinder, sometimes you get a signal straight away if you are lucky, othertimes it might take 30 mins or you give up.

Regards Terry

 

Many thank Terry,

 

we also used an analogue signal meter but was told to set it just so that you here the pitch and then adjust the dish accordingly. I will try your method next time. can't try it at the moment as it is parked on a slope on our drive. Although we could take it out for the day and try it. Again many thanks.

[colin]

As has been said above dish elevation has to be a comparison to a known value, so if you pick up a satelite at 41deg when it should be 30deg you need to always bear in mind this adjustment, a signal meter can make finding a satelite much easier as meters built into to satboxes are very slow to react and it is very easy to go past a satelite. The ajustment for LNB is the skew you will see this value on say the sateliteforcaravans list that you are using, BUT like elevation markings on LNB can be out by a long way, a few months ago I swopped a LNB over and set new one at same angle as old, there was a large drop in signal strenght and I first thought the new LNB was bad, but as a afterthought adjusted skew and found it was about 20de out! unfortunatly as your dish is on top of van it may be a pain to adjust and you would only do so after getting a signal to fine tune it as you can be quite a long way out and still get signal, but it may make the diferance when you are at the limit of dish size for regeon

[johntwebb]

I have set the skew for Spain on my Maxview Crankup. This is on the basis that is the most critical area, elsewhere there is signal strength to spare. This seems OK in practice. However, we have a nasty problem with the Crankup in that it seizes up in azimuth as soon as it gets warm, 20deg C and a bit of sun. I can only align it or take it down when it is cool and dark. Maxview are going to sort it but it is costing me time and money to simply take it off the roof, pack it, send it etc. Has anyone else had this problem?

 

I have noticed elevation seems higher than theory and assume it is partly a non level van and partly an error in the dial. The azimuth is also out by 5 degs; I found this by using a program which gives me azimuth and elevation for a given lat/Long, checking the van bearing with a good boat hand bearing compass when well away from the van and looking at the value on the bezel in the van. I now have a mark on the roof which compensates. Using the handbearing compass and this mark I often hit Astra 2D immediately.

 

John Webb

[Randonneur]

johntwebb - 2007-05-13 11:21 AM

 

 

The azimuth is also out by 5 degs; I found this by using a program which gives me azimuth and elevation for a given lat/Long, checking the van bearing with a good boat hand bearing compass when well away from the van and looking at the value on the bezel in the van. I now have a mark on the roof which compensates. Using the handbearing compass and this mark I often hit Astra 2D immediately.

 

John Webb

 

Where did you find the program for the Azimuth and elevation?

 

As you have put a mark on the roof, do you stay in one place all the time?

[derek500]

colin - 2007-05-12 8:26 PM

 

.... a signal meter can make finding a satelite much easier as meters built into to satboxes are very slow to react and it is very easy to go past a satelite.

 

I agree as far as a Sky digibox goes, but the built in meter/tone on the Lidl Silvercrest box is instantaneous.

[johntwebb]

I do use a noise Sat finder as well of course. Impossible to do the job without, especially when marginal conditions.

 

 

[Rees]

I also have a Teleco wind-up dish fitted and initially I have experienced the same problems as your goodself having to set the dish at about 42 degrees elevation when it should be around 30. So, I sent an e-mail to Teleco in Italy and received a swift reply in good English that suggested that I phoned their UK agents Scan Terrieur Ltd in Watford, Herts, on 01923 800 353, and speak either to Mr. Dennis Mills or Mr. Ian Hughes. I did this and received excellent guidance.

 

The Teleco elevation maps that come with the wind-up dish and mast etc do NOT show elevations for satellite Astra 2D (at compass 28 degrees EAST of south) - only for Astra 19,2 EAST. So I used the elevation maps provided on the www page for 'Satellite for Caravans'. This gives an elevation setting of about 23 degrees for Cardiff (where I live). On the phone Ian told me that I needed to reset the pointer in the windup mast. This is done by unscrewing the windup knob and another screw on the mast and then gently slipping the pointer mechanism (its simple by somewhat fragile!!) out of the mast, taking care not to damage the pointer.

 

Then I adjusted the pointer by one turn on its screw thread and then reassembled the pointer into the mast. I found this gave me a much lower reading by the pointer on the scale than the original new mast when first fitted by a motorcaravan firm. Then using my meter, I gently turned the mast, starting from the EAST and stopped when my meter gave the first loud whistle, indicating that a satellite had been identified. I then slightly adjusted the elevation and waited for a few seconds for the digibox to pick up the signal - with success! Wonderful clear picture compared with that from the conventional mushroom aerial fitted to the roof of our van.

 

So, that's how you can make an adjustment and from where I obtained this very useful information. Since then I have always found the Astra 2D satellite - the one recent exception was last Thursday when due to very heavy rainfall over much of GB it seems that the signal was blocked from about 5.30pm to 7pm, after when the signal came through again without any need to play around with the mast.

 

Hope these comments are of use.