doonhamer Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I am about to take delivery of a new Swift Bolero and have just become aware that the van doesn't come with a spare wheel. There was nothing in the brochures to warn you that this is the case and I can't understand the logic for not providing this essential piece of equipment, except the obvious weight saving. Touch wood I haven't had a puncture in the 18 months I've been a motorhomer but the prospect of getting one in some remote wildcamp or on our trip to Euope later this year is a little concerning. If there are any other new Bolero owners out there I'd like to hear how you dealt with the lack of a spare. I believe that there is a product called Ultraseal that will automatically seal small punctures, any advice on how effective this is, where to get it installed, price, etc. would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 I have to say that after my experience on Friday I would always insist on having a spare wheel, even if I had to pay for it. What happened on Friday? Well I'd had to go to London and on the way home I clipped a piece of truckers tie down strap (hook end) that was lying in the road (M40). I soon realised that the tyre had gone down as the steering gradually started to pull to the left. Pulled onto the hard shoulder and sure enough it was flat as one of Clive's crepes. Get the spare out and call the AA. When I got home I checked the deflated tyre but couldn't see any obvious damage. Blew it up and the hole appeared, as if by magic in the sidewall. I don't beleive even Ultraseal would have sealed this hole as it appeared to be about 6mm across when the tyre had pressure in it. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 doonhamer - 2007-05-28 8:44 AM I am about to take delivery of a new Swift Bolero and have just become aware that the van doesn't come with a spare wheel. If there are any other new Bolero owners out there I'd like to hear how you dealt with the lack of a spare. I believe that there is a product called Ultraseal that will automatically seal small punctures, any advice on how effective this is, where to get it installed, price, etc. would be welcome. Hi Stewart My new Bustner likewise will not have a spare tyre. There are a number of threads on this subject and my solution is to have the Ultraseal product installed. I beleive you can sometimes find their representatives/ fitters at some shows, but I did a search on the internet and found their office is in Exeter, so got in touch with them as we live in Cornwall. The website is www.ultraseal.biz tel 0870 240 1280. other numberts are 01395 443279/442659 or 0870 241 3730 Or an e-mail to mail@ultraseal.biz will get you the info. For us the nearest fitter is in Plymouth si my intention is to arrange to gete this done as soon as we colect the new motorhome. I've been quoted an approx £60 for all four tyres. It is likely that you could option a proper spare for your Swift, but this adds considerably to the weight and cost, and I am hoping my solution will be satsifactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingpete Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Autoseal or other varieties of liquid tyre seal, will work for punctures that are not blow outs, but has anything to say in favour of the "Tyron" brand rim tyre holders that are advertised in many m/home publications. Police seem to compliment them, but why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Hi Doonhamer- This subject was dealt with a short while back, but if I was you, and for piece of mind, I would see if it was possible to get a spare fitted somewhere on the van, even if it meant having a rear cradle made and fitted on the back. Its another cost cutting /weight saving exercise by manufacturers who do not have any practicle common sense. As Dave Newell has mentioned, and its a fact, most punctures ruin the tyre by the time you have stopped, and the sealant will be useless, wont even get you to the nearest garage. Untill customers insist on having a spare fitted to new vehicles and informing the manufactures they have rejected buying the van if it is not at all possible, this problem will continue. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 put "spare tyre" into the forum search and all sorts of coments can be found Just to add mine. No spare on my WV touran has cost me to date well over £250 in replacement tyres. Not to mention the bu**rance factor" of "Hey! We are stuck for the bank holiday, because Tyre centres are closed, and even longer because, it will take 3 days to get a matching tyre, sir" A Motor home/ any car with no spare is a a NO-NO. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Deleted my comments. I managed to get the threads mixed somehow. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Wingpete - 2007-05-28 9:36 AM Autoseal or other varieties of liquid tyre seal, will work for punctures that are not blow outs, but has anything to say in favour of the "Tyron" brand rim tyre holders that are advertised in many m/home publications. Police seem to compliment them, but why ? As I said before I don't beleive any of the liquid tyre sealers would work on the puncture I had on Friday. Also worth noting that although I hit the metal hook at 70MPH the tyre did not blow out or come off the rim, in fact I drove for another mile or so before being convinced I had a puncture. I'll try to add a photo of the damage later. Make sure you get a spare, even if you have to pay for it. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Don't ask me how but Ultraseal and the like is specifically designed not to seal holes in the sidewall, this is stated in their advertising literature. I do use it in my motorcycles for obvious reasons, you can't carry a spare wheel and so it is 'Hobsons Choice' so perhaps better than nothing. I was unfortunate enought to experience a deflation on the M20 at 65 to 70mph in our motorhome and there is no way any amount of sealant or repair kits and pumps would have repaired that, totally exploded. From experience I would NEVER buy any van, new or second hand, without a spare wheel and tyre and would advise anyone faced with the idea of buying any vehicle without a spare not to. In fact it would be top of my list of requirements Bas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doonhamer Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 I think that I've answered my own question re Ultraseal ... I called Kwik Fit who advised they a) didn't recommend its use and b) wouldn't look at a tyre on which it had been used. I've sent an e-mail to Swift asking for their comment and reason(s) for not supplying a spare. I'm not expecting a positive response. Looks like I'll have to visit the auto yard for a scrapped road wheel and try and get some kind of frame welded under the van. Question is what am I not taking with me to make up for the weight of the spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Hi Stewart- With a nice brand new motorhome I would buy a new wheel and tyre, secondhand wheels can have been knocked around. A decent blacksmith should be able to sort you out with a purpose made cradle, IF there is room to fit one. While your at it get him to make it so it can be locked with a strong padlock, as thieves like to take spares .Weigh the lot and take it off your payload limit, but as said to travel about without a spare is inviting problems. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doonhamer Posted June 4, 2007 Author Share Posted June 4, 2007 Picked up my new van at the weekend and I'm' delighted to report that there is a spare tyre fitted as standerd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I have ultraseal on my Burstner, and also to get the spare from underneath the van is a major job and states it needs 2 people to remove. As far as kwik fit are concerned you will get the negative answer because they do not get called out to repair jobs so loss of income hence the reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 omar - 2007-06-04 8:20 AM I have ultraseal on my Burstner, and also to get the spare from underneath the van is a major job and states it needs 2 people to remove. As far as kwik fit are concerned you will get the negative answer because they do not get called out to repair jobs so loss of income hence the reply. Hi Omar How did you get on with the Ultraseal poeple, and where did you have the job donde. Any probems, and was cost OK?? I also am taking delivery of Burstner with no spare and hope to go down this route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Hi Doonhamer- Glad to hear you have a spare fitted, did the dealer give you wrong information or was it because you insisted on having one fitted ? Regards chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 If you search the archive using 'Ultrseal' and/or 'spare tyre' or 'spare wheel', you should get lots of much more detailed info than this thread contains. Dave is right that Ultraseal would not have saved his tyre - they specifically say that driving over road debris can cause damage that is not sealable by their system. I've had it in my van's tyres for 2 years now and, so far, no problems in over 12,000 miloes of driving. I do not carry a spare, mainly for space saving reasons, so I accept the risk of this. I would make four points: 1. If I go anywhere outside the EU / EU partner countries, I would carry the spare. 2. If I do have a puncture that defeats Ultraseal, I shall call out the breakdown service included both in my insurance and in the warranty on the van (both pan-European). 3. If the breakdown/recovery service cannot get me a spare tyre (Sunday/ Bank holiday, etc.,) then our travel plans are flexible enough to cope. 4. Of course, there's always the unexpected. But my fuel pump (as just one example) is as likely to pack up as a tyre event not covered by 1 to 3 above. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I brought this subject up last year on Motorhometoday forum and received a few pics of destroyed tyres to prove that bringing a large m/home down on a deflated tyre does nothing for it at all. We picked up our new Frankia on friday and as specified (and paid over £200) for we have a spare fitted. Apparently it is not the M/home manufacturers but the base vehicle manufacturers who have started this nonsense. And Fiats advert says "Born to be a motorhome" - Yeah right! I read an article in "Promobile" ( German M/home mag) which tested the various brands of tyre sealant / inflators which were being supplied with new M/homes - the results were laughable. One took around 17 mins to inflate a flat but the pump had to be switched off for 15 mins after 8 mins to allow it to cool down sufficiently so it could carry on. Imagine that on the side of the M1 in a gail and pouring with rain - NO THANKS! A similar problem arrises with the "all in ones" (sealant and inflator in a can). If the tyre is not completely flat the sealant tends to be blown back into the can by the pressure of the remaining air in the tyre. The only remedy being first to completely deflate the tyre then pump in the sealant and the air. with large m/homes having tyre pressure of 80psi the cans cant supply sufficient wind to completely reinflate it so your still stuck. >:-( By the way we are well happy with the new 'van! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjphillips Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 I had a spare fitted as standard on my laika in a cradle under the rear end which caused it be to be too close for comfort to the rear axle max weight so I moved it & fitted it behind the front passenger seat securely.The 28kg wheel gained me an additional 42 kg capacity on the rear axle.Maybe if could fit one behind your front seat you wouldn't have to bother with a cradle & save the rear axle capacity for luggage.Whatever the weight of the wheel it multiplies the further behind the axle you have to fit it I cant remember the formular for calculating it but I'm sure someone will remember it from the MMM mag. 8-) *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Frankkia, I think you're talking (well, writing) about a different sort of product. I agree with you that tyre sealant/inflator cans are probably pretty useless for a motorhome. (Though I can think of no model that would require a tyre pressure of 80psi - my highest is 64psi and the previous 'van was even lower - I would not be surprised if someone got a blowout running at 80psi!!). The Ultraseal type of product is pre-injected into the tyre, lasts for the life of the tyre and seals any hole up to about 6mm in diameter when it occurs, preventing deflation. So, in normal situations, there should be no need to reinflate the tyre. The problem arises, as Dave has pointed out, if the tyre is wrecked by hitting road debris. Then no amount of sealant of any type will avoid the need for a replacement. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossko Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 We got our swift bolero last Thursday & I am sure my husband got on his hands & knees in Clumber Park on Sat night to confirm there was a spare wheel underneath but it didn't look very easy to access. If you have not collected yours yet make sure your control panel is wired correctly as ours does not appear to be. Very new to all this so it might just be us. Other than that we are absolutely thrilled. Would be interested to know if you have any problems or advice to share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Hi Mel Yes I was referring to different products here and do realise that the other stuff is put in the tyre "before" a blow out. The reason I was refrerring to the other products was that they are the ones being supplied by M/home manufacturers in place of a spare - and pretty useless they appear to be too. I did post last year that if they thought the gunge was so good then maybe they should put it in all new vehicles if they are not going to supply a spare. But as has been said above some tyre fitting companies are not too keen on touching a wheel that has any sort of sealant in it. As for M/homes with an psi - thats ours - 5.5 bar (80psi) in the front tyres is recommended by Fiat and Alko for the front end on our 5 tonner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp002c784tp002c784tp Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 Hi Mel You say that you would be surprised if any Motorhome would have tyre pressures any where close to 80psi My van a Renault Master Luner Telstar has 4.5 bar in the front and 5.5 in the rear and you have to use the information that you receive with your vehicle, I must admit they feel a bit hard to me, so in the next couple of weeks I intend to load my vehicle with all holiday equipment and have my vehicle weighed. I will then consult Mitchelin with these weights and see what they recomend. About three months ago MMM had an offer in there Mag. for Punctureseal and they quoted £47 for the average Motorhome to have all 4 wheels done I was told after enquiring to Punctureseal that they could not do 4 16" wheels for this price, and MMM must have been quoting for 2 caravan wheels, I did inform Punctureseal that I did not think that a Motorhome magizine would advertise for caravans, I sent an Email to MMM about this misleading advert but the informed me that the rep. who wrote the article was in Australia and would consult him on his return. And give them there due on returning from his holidays David Lloyd the rep who wrote the article rang me at home and informed me that the information that was printed in the MMM was what he had been told by Punctureseal, after making more enquires about this firm I decided not to use them. At the Peterborough show I had Ulrtaseal install there product in 4 of my tyres for £60 and I was informed that in fact its the same product. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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