Clarification Who Do You Blame

[enodreven]

Hi,

 

Just a couple of questions for clarification ? we often see threads where people are making comments about faults with there motorhomes and i was wondering who should really take the blame ??

 

Examples:-

 

(1) Faults develop with a new heater is it the motorhome manufacture, the dealer or the heater manufacturer that should be blamed

 

(2) Charging units fail or become noisy who's fault is it the motorhome manufacturer or the dealer or the charging unit manufacturer.

 

(3) The Bulbs blow in the brake lights who do you blame the bulb manufacturer, the dealer or the motorhome manufacturer

 

(4) The Awning won't open or shut, who do you blame ??

 

I could go on and on but it does make you think is it the component manufacture that should shoulder the main responsiblity if its there piece of the whole that develops a fault and if it is where does this stop and begin as a lot of component parts on one manufacturers vehicles may well be made by another motorhome manufacturer is it Ok to try and rubish the one who has used the defective parts or should the rubishing be more appropriatly directed to the one that manufacturered the parts

 

Be interesting in your thoughts ??

[RonB]

You can 'blame' anyone of the three Brian and any of the three could be at fault. However, in law your redress is with the supplier, usually the dealer. It is then up to him to seek redress with either of the other two if he wishes to do so.

 

Ron

[Brian Kirby]

Not sure I really understand this!  Do you mean who is responsible for the fault, or are you asking who is responsible for righting it?

If it is the first question, then the answer must be any of the above.  Component manufacturer, motorhome "manufacturer" (maybe assembler would be a better word), or dealer, depending on who actually created the fault.  The true responsibility might even lie with the manufacturer of a component part of a sub-assembly bought in by a main component - say a heater- manufacturer.  However, this pursuit of actual responsibility seems rather pointless, unless the result has been fatal and forensic investigation is required.

If it is the second question, the answer, under British Law, is the dealer.  The manufacturer (assembler?) of the motorhome offers a warranty to the purchaser.  The validity of this is only as stated in its terms and conditions.  The legislation within which the dealer trades is the Sale of Goods Act, the Supply of Goods and Services Act, the Sale and Supply of Goods Act, the Unfair Contract Terms Act and, possibly, the Consumer Credit Act.  None of these affect the manufacturer, just the retailer. 

However, if a purchase goes badly wrong, unless negotiation, solicitor's letters and/or intervention by the local Trading Standards Department produce resolution, the final judgements will be with the courts.  Taking the dealer to court remains a gamble, since the outcome will depend at least as much upon how clearly and well the respective cases are argued, as upon the fundamental rights and wrongs of the case.  Then there is the little matter of the award of damages, if relevant, and the award of costs.  This can be very expensive for the loser, so only the relatively rich, or the very determined, can play.  And who is to blame for that?  In a word, Parliament.

[enodreven]

Hi, Ron

 

Thanks for your comments, but my main point was not really directed at actually who is legally responsible, but more who should take the moral responsibility.

 

As we so often see people lambasting either the dealers or the motorhome manufacturer when i actually believe that while they are perhaps legally obliged to direct there request for action to one or other of these, none the less, the real culprit in a lot of cases is the actual component manufacturer who seem to always remain in the background as no real complaints are made directly against their product that has now developed a fault, if you see my point ?

 

hope that makes sense

 

Brian

 

RonB - 2007-05-28 8:25 PM

 

You can 'blame' anyone of the three Brian and any of the three could be at fault. However, in law your redress is with the supplier, usually the dealer. It is then up to him to seek redress with either of the other two if he wishes to do so.

 

Ron

[RonB]

I can see your point now Brian (Endreven). Yes, the various manufacturers, of the whole vehicle as well as the component part makers, are obviously to blame in the first instance. However, I see many comments where the dealer should have sorted things out at the PDI stage and again has been totally incompetent in dealing with faults that occur later.

 

For my part I try to make a point of identifying the culprits fairly, such as Burstner and Chelston in my case, both of whom have proved useless.

 

Ron

[Basil]

Of course there is also another dimension in this 'blame culture' we now live in, what about the purchaser who breaks something and then tries to blame everybody else for his/ her own incompetance?

 

Bas

[enodreven]

Hi

You are correct I really do think that before people are allowed to just lambaste a particular manufacturer or dealer for what sometimes is the old habit of (attack is the best form of defense) Perhaps the manufacturers could get together and setup a number of independent centres where people who are having problems can take their vehicle for examinations at which time the faults can be evaluated and the reasons for these can be identified and corrective repairs can be scheduled with payments where necessary being made by the responsible person

 

I know this may sound like utopia but it could easily be set up by appointing an number if already established independent garages that would be used as for want of a better word adjudicators ? thus leaving the already established dealer networks to complete the repairs ?

 

Its probably nonsensense ?? but the dealers and manufacturers could benefit as this would help to stop the lambasting they get from forums like this ??

 

 

 

 

Basil - 2007-05-28 10:25 PM

 

Of course there is also another dimension in this 'blame culture' we now live in, what about the purchaser who breaks something and then tries to blame everybody else for his/ her own incompetance?

 

Bas

[icdsun]

Hi

 

As others have said the contract is with the supplier/dealer, no one else.

 

The supplier has received a discount from their supplier (MH Manufacturer) as part of their dealer agreement, this will also cover the requirement for them to carry out remedial work on the manufacturers behalf should the need arise in a timely manner, the payment for this work is carried out at agreed rates between them, if a component fails then the delear returns this part for credit from the manufacturer who in turn returns it to their supplier for credit.

The components fitted to a number of MH's/Caravans are from a small core of manufacturer's and provided they are fitted and used in accordance with their instructions generally they will accept a warranty claim, we see cases where components are fitted incorrectly or are specified too low by the MH / Caravan manufacturer because they are maximising their margins, I know Truma have taken a big hit with their regulators failing mainly due to incorrect placement of the product by the converter.

 

As a manufacturer of large capital equipment operating a dealer network we have to stand behind our products and absorb the costs, sometimes for things that are not down to us, if one of our dealers is complained about to us we investigate and work with both parties to resolve, if a dealer is not representing or servicing our products in an appropriate way we remove the dealership, resolve the problems and make it known to our entire dealer network why this was necessary, our reputation is a cornerstone of our business.

 

The concept of an independent network is in place already with your dealers who represent the manufacturer, a good reputation is hard earned and sensible manufacturers do not welcome bad publicity in any format.

Naming and shaming is very effective, as long as it is justified and not just an ill informed rant, it can be a double edged sword and prejudice your case in law, it is very difficult to police such things but emotions can run away with logic when you are not getting the response you feel is appropriate.

 

Independent arbitration should not be needed when the facts are clearly and correctly presented as there is sufficient legislation in place already, it would be likely to be abused by the less scrupulous dealers.

 

Copy all letters of complaint etc to the manufacturer as they sometimes are not aware of issues until it has become a major problem between you and the dealer who is not reacting to the problem.

 

Dealers/Manufacturers who treat customers poorly and not responding to problems deserve to be exposed so that others can avoid.

We are new to M/H and awaiting delivery of a new MH, through these forums have welcomed all advice and comments, we have hopefully made the right choice of product and dealer.

Individually we are easy to deal with as they see fit, but as a forum they have to listen if they want to stay in business.

 

Is it not possible to have a Dealer League Table on this forum, or would it be influenced or vetoed by the MMM magazine advertisers???

 

Chris

 

 

[Vernon B]

I note in this and other related threads that many contributors regard the lack of a proper DPI by the dealer as the major cause of faulty 'vans being delivered to customers. Forgive me but this now out of date thinking.

 

Today a manufacturer's processes and systems should be such that the dealer does not have to carry out a PDI. That applies to the motor industry and should apply to the motorhome/caravan industry as well. This principle is known as "right first time" and should also apply to all component suppliers to the motorhome industry.

 

The Japanese soon came to the conclusion that if you have the "final inspector" at the dealer's despatch gate not only have you left things a bit late but you've created the impression within the workforce that they're not responsible for quality - someone else is paid to do that!

 

Vernon