Can you help me choose a satnav?

[Hughmer]

We go to Europe on 21 June and will be in France for a few weeks transiting Italy and on to Greece coming back via Germany possibly

 

I've just read Way2Go's brilliant guides on how to programme SatNavs

 

http://www.nodarkroom.co.uk/downloads/itinerary_for_tomtom.pdf

http://www.nodarkroom.co.uk/downloads/downloading_poi_guide.pdf

 

and notice (s)he's into TomTomGo.

 

At Newbury I saw a Panasonic in dash Radio CD DVD player with flip out screen that also offered Satnav. I didn't buy it because if mounted in the radio slot of my MB 412 I reckoned the screen would not be easy to see when driving. Otherwise I thought it was a cute idea saving space and so on.

 

Reading about TomTom Garmin Navman and all the others, I'm bewildered by the choice and have yet to find a salesman who understands my needs.

 

I read that some of the processors are slower, and take longer to lock on to the sats. Some displays offer "driver's eye view". Some are simple maps.

 

Way2Go's guide illustrates how to download a myriad of poi sites. Is there a limit on the number of poi's a satnav can hold?

 

I'm not phased by technology, and I'm not worried how complicated the device is but choosing is time consuming. So is there a device that stands out from the rest as far as Mhomers are concerned.

 

Has anyone experience of the new Panasoninc all in one thing. Is it better to have a separate satnav screen on the top of the dash?

 

Is it a good idea to buy an older (used) model until I've made up my own mind which (more expensive) one to invest in?

 

 

[Dave Newell]

Hi Hugh, I can't help you regarding a particular product but I can give you my thoughts from experience. I used to be firmly in the "built in is better" camp and favoured the VDO Dayton units although they are expensive. Recently I bought a portable from Maplin for £100 ( I don't think this will suit your needs as it doesn't currently have European mapping available, this isn't an issue for me as we only tour UK at present) and I'm so impressed I've removed my elderly VDO system from the motorhome and will be selling it on. The new portable does everything the VDO did but it does it faster, its portable so I can use it in the motorhome or the car or even while out walking 'cos its got its own built in battery. I did think the 3.5" screen would struggle in comparison with the VDO's 5.8" widescreen display but it doesn't. Its perfectly viewable and the only time I had any difficulty seeing the textual detail was when I had my sunglasses on but I had the same with the VDO so that's not an issue.

 

Tom Tom does seem to be the most popular but you need advice from users of the other systems and ideally to try them all out before you can judge.

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

So, have you re-connected your old computer now Dave, or just reverted to your original sign on name etc?  Or are you no longer at home?

[icdsun]

Hi

 

Coverage for Greece is quite limited, Tom Tom don't show it as a map area so if Greece is essential for your Satnav make sure it is available.

 

Some of the in dash units allow the screen to rotate to a suitable position, generally this type of unit is expensive to upgrade maps also.

 

All in one units like TT and PDA's allow you to move it between vehicles, personally I use a Dell PDA with Co-Pilot software which I have used for the last 6 years all over Europe, this allows you to set a vehicle type of RV and adjust the speeds etc and preferences to suit, also live tracking and 2 way messaging back to base. I have used TomTom 5 on my PDA but found it slower to react to re-routing and driver error (lol). I can use a patch lead from my PDA to a monitor for the rev camera, which may be helpful, also got email,internet on the move with the PDA.

If you go the seperate route of software,PDA,Smartphone,Receiver have a look at www.pocketgps.co.uk there are some good tips and advice on there, a good receiver is important and get a Sirf 111 as a minimum. Importantly make sure you can import POI's into the unit, it is not always possible to add your own POI's to the catalogue on the unit.

 

For convenience the TomTom/Garmin all in one range are very good and fairly easy to use with a lot of people using them, all satnavs will get you to where you tell it too, the major thing is to be able to hear it's instructions clearly, you may not be able to see the screen as you approach junctions, this is one area where the built in units beat all others as you have the benefit of all the MH speakers being utilised even when you are listening to the radio/cd etc. as most have auto mute.

 

You can spend from around £100-3000 for a SatNav, but get a good set of paper maps as technology has a nasty habit of biting you at the least convenient moment.

 

Chris

[Dave Newell]

Brian Kirby - 2007-05-31 2:36 PM

 

So, have you re-connected your old computer now Dave, or just reverted to your original sign on name etc? Or are you no longer at home?

 

When I post as Dave Newell I'm using the PC at work. When I post as Davenewell@home I'm on the one at home (lol) (or possibly away in the motorhome using my laptop with my mobile as a modem).

 

D.

[Dave Newell]

One point worth bearing in mind is that the mapping is only supplied by one of two companies, Navtech or Teleatlas. The level of mapping for each country varies according to whose maps are being used and both companies are totally independent of the hardware manufacturers. Sometimes you will get strange instructions, as an example my old VDO unit always wanted me to leave the A38 northbound at Lichfield then at the top of the sliproad rejoin the A38. My new unit last Friday brought me out of London on the M40 (which was correct) but then at J9 wanted me to leave the M40 and divert across to the M1 before joining the M6 to get back home to Telford. Always check the route the system plans for you before you embark on your journey and note down any cockups so you don't take the wrong turn. If (and when) you do take a wrong turn the sat nav will quickly re-route and often ask you to make a U turn to get back to the original route. If, as was the case for me last Friday, you choose to ignore the nav it will pretty soon change its route to accomodate your preference. Ultimately though they will always get you to your destination, assuming you programmed it in correctly of course.

 

D.

[Mel E]

The choice is pretty simple really:

 

- TomTom are clear market leaders for afterfit vehicle SatNavs (i.e., ones not part of the delivered vehicle)

 

- Garmin are clear market leader foir aviation-oriented satnav and also, probably for the sailing market.

 

TomTom works well. Why buy anything else?

 

The availability of maps for distant parts is a problem with all satnavs as there are only two map suppliers. Surprisingly, coverage of Ireland is minimal and I suspect you may have a problem with Greece. But there are so few roads in the latter, surely the paper method is sufficient?

 

Mel E

====

[Hughmer]

Thanks everyone, I can't believe how lucky we are to have so many knowledgeable friends.

 

Picking up on the comment about Dell PDA with Co-Pilot.. If we intend to take a laptop is there a benefit/disadvantage about laptop (contra PDA) based GPS

 

Picking up on Mel E's comment about why buy anything other than TomTom.. If we already have a laptop with us, - can it be made to do the job rather than buy another bit of kit?

 

If we do buy a Tom Tom, - Is there a particular unit to consider in preference to others? Links most appreciated

[Way2Go]

Hi Hughmer,

Thank you for the acknowledgement and I hope they will be of interest to you (I'll be posting another how-to later this evening).

As a general rule the built-in SatNavs are neat and tidy but the maps cannot generally be updated without buying a new DVD.  They usually cannot be tweaked by adding additional POIs.

The PDA route is popular in that the device is portable, is tweakable and upgrades are more reasonable.  As the device run a special cut down version of Windows the SatNav software is installed as a program much like installing it on a PC.  The device can also be used for other options such as email, calendar and games is that's of interest to you.

The final group is dedicated devices such as Garmin and TomTom.

I went for the TomTom GO as it's very easy to use, has a nice colour scheme, has a good pedigree and can be tweaked until your hearts content.  The new version also comes with a software program called HOME which acts as an interface with TomTom to download updates.  It can also be used to view the device screen on your PC which means you can use a mouse and keyboard to route plan.

Depending which device type you choose depends on where to look for a bargain.

The new TomTom ONE XL has just been released but isn't really much different from the previous ONE apart from a wider screen.  You'll pay approx £80 for the wider screen.

My wife has just bought the ONE Regional (GB & NI map plus major roads of europe) at Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000I0Q3JE/202-3374560-4947029

Tom Tom dedicated devices are at http://www.tomtom.com/products/category.php?ID=0&Lid=1 although you won't need to pay those prices.

For the best deals and prices why not check out http://www.best-satnav-deals.co.uk/

I cannot comment on other devices because I have not seen them (apart from the Blaupunkt TravelPilot Lucca which is rubbish).

I hope this helps.

[fred grant]

us takes it you rarely is home then dave. as you got a women then?

 

is that why you need a good tom tom? a women near every motorway?

 

fred fred

 

seeing double as alice as just clumped me one!

[davenewellhome]

fred grant - 2007-05-31 7:42 PM

 

us takes it you rarely is home then dave. as you got a women then?

 

is that why you need a good tom tom? a women near every motorway?

 

fred fred

 

seeing double as alice as just clumped me one!

 

No Fred, I'm either at home or at work. We also visit the Warners shows and can use the laptop with my mobile phone as a 3G modem. I have a lovely wife, why would I want any more women?

 

D.

[Way2Go]

OK, if anyone is interested, I've just knocked up a 'how to' for downloading POIs and linking a warning to it.  The downloadable file is here

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=7664

Please let me know if you need any more clarification.

W2G

[boobabsca]

""I cannot comment on other devices because I have not seen them (apart from the Blaupunkt TravelPilot Lucca which is rubbish).""

 

Hi Way2Go, just a quickie,

 

Is the Blaupunkt TravelPilot Lucca the one included with the Bessacarr?

 

( i've no experience of Sat Nav's at all) Why is it so bad?

 

Thanks, Chris & Dawn

[Way2Go]

boobabsca - 2007-05-31 10:04 PM ""I cannot comment on other devices because I have not seen them (apart from the Blaupunkt TravelPilot Lucca which is rubbish)."" Hi Way2Go, just a quickie, Is the Blaupunkt TravelPilot Lucca the one included with the Bessacarr? ( i've no experience of Sat Nav's at all) Why is it so bad? Thanks, Chris & Dawn

Yep, that's the one, it comes as part of the Swift Elegance Pack.

The things I don't like about it are as follows:-

The colour scheme is all blue and yellow, yuk.

It only has the well out of date 5 digit post code search.

It only comes with one voice.

You cannot add your own POIs.

It has a very irritating click every time you touch a button and I cannot find a way of turning it off.

It takes far too many clicks just to find a simple address or existing POI.

The general 3D view doesn't really represent 'real life' and the overall image is very abstract.

If it was this or a map I'd choose the map . . . or even look out the window at road signs!!

The best thing to do with it is leave it on the drive, back over it, then put in a claim to your insurance company and buy a proper satnav device.

I'm looking to sell mine on eBay but there are a few floating around and generating very little interest from buyers.

I'm soooo pleased that I didn't actually buy it as it came bundled in with my Elegance pack.  I'm very surprised at Blaupunkt as I'd always thought of them as something to aspire to but this is a real disappointment.

Ripping it out of my motorhome was the first job before putting the kettle on and putting my TomTom GO in it's rightful place . . . . ahhh that'd better.

[Brian Kirby]

davenewell@home - 2007-05-31 8:28 PM

fred grant - 2007-05-31 7:42 PM us takes it you rarely is home then dave. as you got a women then? is that why you need a good tom tom? a women near every motorway? fred fred seeing double as alice as just clumped me one!

No Fred, I'm either at home or at work. We also visit the Warners shows and can use the laptop with my mobile phone as a 3G modem. I have a lovely wife, why would I want any more women? D.

I think fred fred was hoping you may have a cyder drinking spare for the other fred!

[Mel E]

Hughmer,

 

To answer your specific last question about using a laptop (since everyone else seems to be answering other questrions!!):

 

I have used a laptop with GPS receiver connected via USB port and using very detailed maps of the whole of Europe (TeleAtlas). The main problems with it were:

 

- where do you put the laptop so it's genuinely safe when you're driving? Not on the dashboard for sure - a crash and it would go straight through the windscreen and probably behead someone (yes, it has happened!).

 

- not on the floor because you cannot reach it while driving to re-program it as necessary.

 

- the maps were TOO detailed and the software had a tentency to route us via cart tracks - especially if we went off the recommended route and it wanted to turn us back

 

- the software has serious problems, though these may have been resolved in later versions. We used InfoMap Navigator 4 and it had two key problems;

 

1. Every so often it would be unable to compute a route at all - going into a form of 'deadly contention' where it becomes like a dog chasing its own tail. I'm told this may have been resolved.

 

2. If you used waypoints to route from A to B via a couple of places you wanted to visit or for a more scenic route, you had to actually visit the exact latitude and longitude of the waypoints or else, once past them, it insisted on routing you back again. Of course you can cancel the waypoints using the keyboard, but then we have the accessibility issue again.

 

When travelling, I use my laptop as a laptop, for playing DVDs, and as a TV set - it has a 15.4 inch widescreen which is actually bigger than many purpose built TVs. I have a small USB pen which acts as the receiver for digital TV and another for analogue. I use TomTom to assist in navigation.

 

Mel E

====

[Vic]

A few folks here seem to be worried about seeing the screen on their SatNav. Um, why? This must be as dangerous as reading a book while you're driving. I stick my Tom Tom way over to the left of the windscreen out of my line of sight so only my wife can see it. I then just follow the verbal instructions........from Tom Tom, not my wife :-> One thing you must do with your SatNav is programme it with a male voice. I tried a female voice once but one of the first instructions was "Pull over at the first opportunity, and ask for directions" ;-)

[Dave Newell]

"A few folks here seem to be worried about seeing the screen on their SatNav. Um, why? This must be as dangerous as reading a book while you're driving."

 

I don't think its anything like reading a book. I only need to glance at the screen of my sat nav occasionally just liker I glance at the instrument panel.

 

"One thing you must do with your SatNav is programme it with a male voice. "

 

Sorry Vic but I disagree and I'm not wild about being told what I "must do" either. I prefer the female voice. In my experience (and bear in mind that I was selling and fitting VDO Dayton sat navs for five years) women, in general, prefer the male voice and men prefer the female voice, although why this should be the case baffles me slightly when we males can't usually stand being told what to do by a woman >:-) .

 

D.

[Way2Go]

We whole heartily agree with Dave on both parts.

There have been several occasions, particularly at multiple road junctions, where a quick glance at the screen saved us taking the wrong junction.  The quick glance shows exactly which junction exit road is highlighted.  Bear in mind that there is always a bit of a time lag, especially when changing direction.

We agree with Dave in that we both use our SatNavs as another instrument and include it in the quick sweep of the instruments and both have them located touching the dash at about '7 o'clock'.

It's astonishing where some people mount them and some must surely be in a position where they obscure their view?

Regarding voices, it IS a well known fact that men tend to use female voices and women tend to use male voices . . . . unless you are German and drive a Merc.

Apparently, so the story goes, for the first time in it's history Mercedes had a 'recall'.  The reason was due to them giving their built-in SatNav a female voice.  They apparently received so many complaints from irate owners that the product was recalled to install a male voice.  Something to do with Germen men not being told what to do by a woman? 

[Brian Kirby]

This is interesting.  Can anyone please tell me if the aural instructions are given on the satnav's own speaker, or whether they are relayed via the "car" radio speakers?  If the former, are they clearly audible?

Thanks.

[Way2Go]

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-03 12:04 PM

This is interesting.  Can anyone please tell me if the aural instructions are given on the satnav's own speaker, or whether they are relayed via the "car" radio speakers?  If the former, are they clearly audible?

Thanks.

It depends on the type of SatNav Brian.

The built-in ones come through the car speakers and lots of the 'delicated' devices like TomTom GO will also come through the speakers if you take a feed from the windscreen mount.

The PDA types probably wouldn't go through the speakers.

I've never bothered investigating running my GO through the speakers as the volume is more than adequete at 75% volume.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks, oh learned one!  It was the portables I had in mind: they all seemed to me too small to have speakers capable of making themselves heard over the road/engine noise of a motorhome.  Are the various TomTom versions broadly similar from that point of view, do you know?

Thanks again.

[Way2Go]

Yes they are Brian.  The GO range verses the ONE range is like a CRT verses a flat screen TV.

My GO looks like a miniture CRT TV whereas my wife's ONE is like a flat screen TV which easily drops into her handbag when she leaves the vehicle.

The software is essentially the same and the only real difference are the maps supplied.

Here's a link which may be useful to you:-

http://www.tomtom.com/products/category.php?ID=0&Language=1&TT=7a1281a3%3Ababa37bd%3A00000000%3A00000000%3A00000000%3A00000000%3Avqd52ud322hh5k4l7vinvue867 although you don't have to pay those prices.

This may be a good starting place to compare prices:-

http://www.cheaphighstreet.com/shopping/tomtom_go/find-tomtom-deals.htm

She's only had her ONE Regional for a few weeks and even though the XL Regional was about to come out, she didn't think the wider screen was worth the extra £80 or so.

My GO runs perfectly well in our Bessacarr at approx 75% volume and can easily be heard over the road noise.

I hope this helps?

Way2Go

[Basil]

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-03 12:04 PM

This is interesting.  Can anyone please tell me if the aural instructions are given on the satnav's own speaker, or whether they are relayed via the "car" radio speakers?  If the former, are they clearly audible?

Thanks.

Hi Brian,Our Navman is PPC (PDA) based and the sound output is perfectly adequate at all speeds and very clear, the instructions are normally repeated at least twice and you get a talk down e.g. it will say "In point five of a mile prepare to exit motorway" repeat that instruction then "In xxx yards prepare to exit onto slip road" repeat the instruction and as you reach the point it will say "Exit onto slip road" then repeat the instruction.There is also a normal phono socket that can be used for earpiece or earphones or to connect direct to a fitted radio that has an appropriate input.Also the screen is easy to read and automatically zooms in to the particular junction that the manouver is to take place at making it very clear to see where you are supposed to go.Bas

[Brian Kirby]

Thank you both very much.  Excellent information and links.