Leisure Battery charging

[Deffheads]

Our Dethleffs Esprit 7870 A class is starting to show its age now and the current problem has appeared after 2 days travelling South in France. We are using aires on the way down with no EHU and also no sun to help the solar. I have noticed that when starting up the ammeter rises to max 30Amp charge, but today after 100+ miles, with engine still running it is still showing 30amp charge. What could be wrong? The engine battery seems ok but the leisure one does not seem charged that well.

[BruceM]

How old is the leisure battery? It may be exhibiting endoflifeitus.

[Keithl]

What is your leisure battery and how old is it? (Assuming a single battery by your thread title?)

And if FLA is it 'Sealed for life' 'Maintenance free' or one you have to top up with water?

[Deffheads]

The single monster Odyssey PC2250AGM battery is located under the passenger seat, so not easily accessed, Bought in 2019. My concern is the ammeter showing maximum charge rate even after 100 miles. AGM leisure only showing 12.4v after that distance.

[spirou]

Quite possibly an internal short. Is it making any bubbling noises when you're charging it?

[Deffheads]

2 minutes ago, spirou said:

Quite possibly an internal short. Is it making any bubbling noises when you're charging it?

It is an AGM battery, do they bubble?

[Deffheads]

How do I test the leisure battery is receiving a charge?

[Keithl]

Can you measure the on charge voltage of the AGM battery? And if possible disconnect it for a couple of hours then measure its rest voltage?

[Deffheads]

3 minutes ago, Keithl said:

Can you measure the on charge voltage of the AGM battery? And if possible disconnect it for a couple of hours then measure its rest voltage?

As said I'm more concerned b he ammeter show max charge rate 30Amps even after 100 miles. Not possible to disconnect leisure battery without removing passenger seat.

[Keithl]

I strongly suspect your AGM has expired and hence over-charging but impossible to tell whilst still in circuit.

[Labby]

There may be a fuses  near the leisure battery positive terminal that you can remove to disconnect it to see if that battery being faulty is the cause of the constant 30 amp charging

[spirou]

3 hours ago, Deffheads said:

It is an AGM battery, do they bubble?

I had a gel that did. Once pressure increased beyond a point it also started spilling acid through the vent.

[BruceM]

If the leisure battery is not holding its charge, the engine starter battery is working fine and there is a current charge of 30 amps after 100 miles of driving then I’d replace the leisure battery as a precaution. It’s a relatively low cost item given its importance. Of course you could isolate the battery and test it although by the time you’ve gone to that trouble you might as well have replaced it.  

 

If having replaced the battery the problem persists then there’s an more complex electrical issue that needs attention. Dethleffs though are generally reliable vans. Mine’s 20 years old and the only electrical fault I’ve experienced was with the 12v fridge side supply by the EBL and that was simply remedied.

 

The only caveat I’d add to all this is that four years seems a short life for a leisure battery, although I suppose if you’re a heavy user that may well impact it’s longevity.

[Keithl]

18 hours ago, Deffheads said:

The single monster Odyssey PC2250AGM battery...

 

2 minutes ago, BruceM said:

It’s a relatively low cost item given its importance.

Unfortunately Deffheads leisure battery is not a cheap item, it is a circa £500 special  https://www.tayna.co.uk/industrial-batteries/odyssey/pc2250/

[BruceM]

On 1/30/2023 at 11:13 AM, Keithl said:

 

Unfortunately Deffheads leisure battery is not a cheap item, it is a circa £500 special  https://www.tayna.co.uk/industrial-batteries/odyssey/pc2250/

 

Ouch! That’s a frightening amount for a 126 Ah battery with a two year guarantee. Especially when I compare it to the cost of my 180 Ah of Varta lead acids (£200 total). I wonder if any battery aficionados out there can suggest an alternative that would be less costly?

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2019 forum thread provides some background to Deffhead's Odyssey battery.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/46729-odyssey-pc2250-battery-12v/#comment-596965

[Hans]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:08 PM, BruceM said:

If the leisure battery is not holding its charge, the engine starter battery is working fine and there is a current charge of 30 amps after 100 miles of driving then I’d replace the leisure battery as a precaution. It’s a relatively low cost item given its importance. Of course you could isolate the battery and test it although by the time you’ve gone to that trouble you might as well have replaced it.  

 

If having replaced the battery the problem persists then there’s an more complex electrical issue that needs attention. Dethleffs though are generally reliable vans. Mine’s 20 years old and the only electrical fault I’ve experienced was with the 12v fridge side supply by the EBL and that was simply remedied.

 

The only caveat I’d add to all this is that four years seems a short life for a leisure battery, although I suppose if you’re a heavy user that may well impact it’s longevity.

Agm can die any time depending on use of it. a lot in our club after a year two years. Put a lithium in it if you want to spend the money.It takes 48 hours to do a proper Agm test. Lithium can be done by APP in one minute.
er

[Derek Uzzell]

I can't comment on the 30A ammeter reading, but if the present Odyssey AGM battery does need replacing, there is no compelling incentive to do this on an exact like-for-like basis.

The history to this is that - in 2019 with a long trip abroad imminent - Deffheads's 2006  Dethleffs motorhome's gel-type leisure-battery died and, because this was housed under a cab seat, the only immediately available battery with appropriate dimensions/capacity was the Odyssey one.

Given the age of the motorhome, it's likely that the dead battery was not original (Deffheads had bought the vehicle secondhand) but, whatever battery had been factory-fitted, it would almost certainly have been gel-type.

There's no technical NEED to fit another Odyssey AGM battery (at £400+) as an Exide ES1200 110Ah gel battery can be obtained in the UK for £250 and would be a better 'match' for the motorhome's charging system.

https://www.plymouthbattery.co.uk/type/industrial/exide-industrial/exide-es1200-gel

As Deffheads is now abroad, if a replacement battery were needed, it's likely to be easier (and less expensive) to source the Exide battery than the Odyssey.

[Brian Kirby]

Given the year of production of the 'van, I'd echo Derek's caution regarding hooking an AGM battery to the existing charging system.  I'm assuming Schaudt equipment, but whosever is fitted, it seems unlikely it would have an AGM charging regimen, but likely it would have a regimen switchable for flooded lead-acid (FLA) or gel.  So, I'm just wondering if the demise of the existing battery may have been the result of an inappropriate regimen.  As either FLA or Gel should have been catered for, and as the battery housing is likely to relate to batteries contemporary with the 'vans date of construction, installing either gel or FLA would seem the preferable route to take.  It would be wise of Deffheads to verify whose electrics are installed, and that the charger fitted is switchable for FLA (probably the  cheaper option, though it may need venting) and gel (more expensive, but more accepting of deep discharge and no need for venting).  

[Hans]

11 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

I can't comment on the 30A ammeter reading, but if the present Odyssey AGM battery does need replacing, there is no compelling incentive to do this on an exact like-for-like basis.

The history to this is that - in 2019 with a long trip abroad imminent - Deffheads's 2006  Dethleffs motorhome's gel-type leisure-battery died and, because this was housed under a cab seat, the only immediately available battery with appropriate dimensions/capacity was the Odyssey one.

Given the age of the motorhome, it's likely that the dead battery was not original (Deffheads had bought the vehicle secondhand) but, whatever battery had been factory-fitted, it would almost certainly have been gel-type.

There's no technical NEED to fit another Odyssey AGM battery (at £400+) as an Exide ES1200 110Ah gel battery can be obtained in the UK for £250 and would be a better 'match' for the motorhome's charging system.

https://www.plymouthbattery.co.uk/type/industrial/exide-industrial/exide-es1200-gel

As Deffheads is now abroad, if a replacement battery were needed, it's likely to be easier (and less expensive) to source the Exide battery than the Odyssey.

There are no original batts in a van or motorhome, It can be anything. one or two. Under the front seats. space varies which seat aguti or ducato etc. integral motor homes put it in a  side box. lot of space. But under seats it is puzzle Since i do  dog agility week ends no hook up but still a honda generator nearby i run flat whit webasto and compressor fridge. i pull out the agm and put in superb 100 AH Two of them. lithium, victron ip 22 loader solar lithium regulator. All under the two front seats. loading by app movement. Now read that lithium can have Nano scale effects and mechanical stress cause the failure of solid electrolytes. So up to the next Gena of lithium.

[Derek Uzzell]

12 hours ago, Brian Kirby said:

...I'm assuming Schaudt equipment, but whosever is fitted, it seems unlikely it would have an AGM charging regimen, but likely it would have a regimen switchable for flooded lead-acid (FLA) or gel. ...

Some earlier forum threads about Deffheads's motorhome's electrical system

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/47557-auxiliary-battery-charger-on-ebl99/#comment-607431

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/48037-agm-battery-charger/#comment-614129

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/51200-ebl-99-charging/#comment-656922

Regarding my saying "it's likely that the dead battery was not original" - for the vast majority of motorhomes sold new, their leisure battery/batteries (whatever the type) will have been installed during the conversion phase and before the vehicle arrives at the motorhome dealership. (Chausson/Challenger may be an exception, with the dealer doing the installation).

For a Dethleffs motorhome built in 2006, the likelihood is that, after 13 years, the original factory-fitted leisure battery would have been replaced at least once and, consequently, the battery Deffheads had to to replace in 2019 might well have differed from the original. 

[Deffheads]

9 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

Some earlier forum threads about Deffheads's motorhome's electrical system

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/47557-auxiliary-battery-charger-on-ebl99/#comment-607431

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/48037-agm-battery-charger/#comment-614129

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/51200-ebl-99-charging/#comment-656922

Regarding my saying "it's likely that the dead battery was not original" - for the vast majority of motorhomes sold new, their leisure battery/batteries (whatever the type) will have been installed during the conversion phase and before the vehicle arrives at the motorhome dealership. (Chausson/Challenger may be an exception, with the dealer doing the installation).

For a Dethleffs motorhome built in 2006, the likelihood is that, after 13 years, the original factory-fitted leisure battery would have been replaced at least once and, consequently, the battery Deffheads had to to replace in 2019 might well have differed from the original. 

The battery that I fitted in 2019 was an Odyssey PC2250 the only battery in the UK of the correct size to fit under the passenger seat. I now realise that the AGM is not correctly charged by the on board EBL99. 

[Deffheads]

8 minutes ago, Deffheads said:

The battery that I fitted in 2019 was an Odyssey PC2250 the only battery in the UK of the correct size to fit under the passenger seat. I now realise that the AGM is not correctly charged by the on board EBL99. 

I am currently in the EU [now Spain] Exide ES1200 is a possible replacement but nobody can supply quickly, maybe one week or a month.

[Hans]

Do you have only one? You have a seat and a swivel base whit added height. and a seat base. You can putt two bats under these mechanic boxes.

[Derek Uzzell]

Hans,

I'm not sure that will be the case for a 2006 Dethleffs Esprit 7870 motorhome. This is an A-class model and the seats are as shown in the image below. Even if two (gel) batteries could be shoehorned into one of the seat bases and the cabling suitably modified, I think the cost of doing this would be no less than fitting a single large Exide ES1200 gel battery. And if the present Odyssey battery must be replaced while the motorhome is outside the UK, the simplest approach would be to install a single battery with the same dimensions as the Odyssey's.