Do you take your LAPTOP?

[Mel E]

If you take your Laptop with you on your motorhome journeys, is there anything on the hard disk that would be attractive to thieves? Do you, for example, have:

 

- copies of Credit Card statements downloaded from the internet?

 

- details of any bank or building society accounts (even a downloaded statement will do to a thief)?

 

- any information giving your address, date of birth, etc.?

 

In short, could a thief gain access to any real money or investments if they stole your LapTop?

 

If your answer is even 'possibly', you need a safe encryption system so that a thief cannot access sensitive data. You can even set it up for free using encryption tools approved by the US Dept of Defense.

 

Go to

 

www.truecrypt.org

 

to download the software for free together with step by instructions on how to install it and use it.

 

It enables you to create a file of any size and name you define in any of the directories you choose on your hard disk. When you then use TrueCrypt to load the file (typing in the password used to encrypt the data), it becomes an extra disk drive into which you can move any files you wish (all the sensitive ones). The new drive will show up on Windows Exporer with the usual tree-structured directory and files lists. The files may be accessed in the normal way without the need to retype the password. When you shut down the computer (or use TrueCrypt to unload the new disk), all record of it vanishes and it just becomes another file somewhere on your laptop which can be backed up in the normal way. If anyone tries to read the file they get total garbage.

 

Just one problem with the system - for optimum security, they recommend a password of at least 20 characters including numbers and other characters as well as letters. You can solve this in a very simple way: use the first few words of the opening or closing sentence in a selected chapter of a book, song from a musical, whatever, and replace the blanks between words with a carefully chosen, but memorable, sequence of characters other than letters. You might want to store a copy of this password with your next of kin, just in case.

 

Be safe!!!!!

 

Mel E

====

[Thai Bry]

Mel

Very good info here, didn't even think about this area of weakness,and I do a lot of share trading on the web when away on hols or business.

Many thanks again for a timely reminder.

Thai

[Tony Jones]

NO.

I realise that some people, for business or personal reasons, have to take a laptop on holiday, and probably others like to for entertainment, or for info about places they're going, but for us one of the most important things about going away in the van is that we ARE away, and out of touch.

No telly, no radio (once we're out of range of Radio2), and definitely no e-mails. We have mobile phones, so the kids (or selected other people) can reach us if they need to, but that's all.

 

But before anyone gets upset, I emphasise again that this is OUR preference - it doesn't mean it has to be everyone else's!

 

Tony

[Hughmer]

Mel I don't want to appear to be picking holes in your argument, but just creating an encrypted drive won't stop a hacker getting access to sensitive data.

 

Your browser cache, cookies which may contain passwords, and the swap file all contain data of value to thieves. Deleting these files won't prevent a hacker accessing the data. The files must be overwritten, - or wiped, - to obliterate the information.

 

 

[Vic]

Our laptop accompanies us on every journey. Having said that, as we are brand new to motorhomes we've only been out four times in the 6 weeks we've owned our van. The main purpose of the laptop is to store the many photographs we take. Particularly as we eventually plan to tour Europe for around 6 months of the year. Without the laptop we'd have to take a hell of a lot of camera memory cards! Secondly, my wife Linda is keeping a comprehensive journal of our trips and whilst paper and pen may be suitable, a word processor is much much easier. No screwed up sheets of paper littering the awning! And lastly, the are are growing number of areas where you can pick up wireless connections to the internet thereby being able to contact friends and family via e-mail, which is generally a lot cheaper than the mobile phone

[Basil]

Vic - 2007-06-01 5:51 PM

 

And lastly, the are are growing number of areas where you can pick up wireless connections to the internet thereby being able to contact friends and family via e-mail, which is generally a lot cheaper than the mobile phone

 

And also the ability to use Skype, so there are no phone charges at all! That is our main use on a laptop that is only used for the van so has no sensitive information contained. But I believe the origional post has some helpful information that I will definately look into and use, thanks for that.

 

 

Bas

[derek500]

Basil - 2007-06-01 7:05 PM

 

 

And also the ability to use Skype, so there are no phone charges at all! Bas

 

Or one of the VOIP programs like Voipbuster, Voipstunt or Voipcheap where you phone landlines for free. Handy for us if we're phoning our non computer owning parents.

[derek500]

We always take ours. I keep a full backup of my PDA which has our Tomtom on, plus we use Autoroute as a mapping facility.

[mom]

Tony Jones - 2007-06-01 2:09 PMNO.I realise that some people, for business or personal reasons, have to take a laptop on holiday, and probably others like to for entertainment, or for info about places they're going, but for us one of the most important things about going away in the van is that we ARE away, and out of touch.No telly, no radio (once we're out of range of Radio2), and definitely no e-mails. We have mobile phones, so the kids (or selected other people) can reach us if they need to, but that's all.But before anyone gets upset, I emphasise again that this is OUR preference - it doesn't mean it has to be everyone else's!Tony

 

Tony, this is not directed at you, you have explained that it is simply best for you and not necessarily others.  I lazely used your post as a quoted reply! ;-)

 

I've have had this discussion with many people, about laptops when touring, and also WiFi on site.  Many people immediately say that truely getting away from it all means leaving technology at home.  But there is much more to this story, I'm afraid.  I remember writing a letter to another motorhome magazine, suggesting that more sites should consider WiFi as it enables someone like me who would prefer to get to the site on Friday morning, beating the traffic, and work from the van rather than join the wacky races after work on Friday evening.  It would also enable some people to take working holidays.  Someone wrote back and was quite vicious in their attack, saying that I "must" holiday in the exact manner as they do - actually telling me that their way of enjoying themselves is the only way, and the internet was not to play a part.  Interesting! 

Here are my thoughts on the matter...

 

1. Many people take a camera with them.  I do.  I need a device to back up the hundreds of photos I might take on a weekend.  I could buy a special backup device, for £100 or so, but why not use my laptop where I can then catalogue them as I go?

 

2. Many people take a TV.  Just walk around a campsite.  In my humble opinion, it is TVs that should be left at home, and computers used to pursue hobbies and interests (if that's what you want to do).  But let no man (or woman) point a finger at laptop users if they have a TV in the van.

 

3. I keep a journal.  I could write with pen and paper, as my wife does, but I store parts of it on the internet etc.  Today's computer is yesterday's pen and paper to an increasing number of people, and definitely to the next generation.

 

4. When touring, I use the internet to look for opening times, book tickets etc etc.  Sure, I could spend all day hunting down ticket offices on foot, but why waste the day doing this?  Could have done it from home, before we left, but when we get in the van we usually have no idea which direction where headed, especially on the continent.  Having internet access allows trully free wandering yet missing nothing important.

 

5. DVDs.  One night a week, my wife and I like to watch a movie. 

 

The real crux of the issue is that most people associate a computer with work, and to take the computer on holiday is taking work. NOT SO!  The computer, to me anyway, is just a tool for pursuing hobbies and interests.  Why should I be stopped from doing this by those who can't see the difference?

 

[Tony Jones]

Spot on, "mom."

You live your way, I'll live mine - isn't that what the whole motorhome thing is supposed to be about?

 

Enjoy yourself!

 

Tony

[Mel E]

Tony,

 

While you (or anyone else, for that matter), are on holiday WITHOUT your laptop, you are still at risk of it being stolen from your presumably empty house. So the warning about encrypting sensitive data is just as important.

 

Even if there's nothing sensitive on the laptop, many of us also have a desktop that does have sensitive data on it. And that carefully filed set of bank or building society statements is a real treat to a thief.

 

As has been pointed out on this website before, even theft of a Driving Licence is dangerous - and you must have it with you when abroad. It contains your FULL name, address, place and date of birth. With this info, your Birth Certificate is available online for a small fee (no questions asked!), and the identity thief now also has your mother's maiden name. So when I'm asked to supply it as a security check I always use a made-up, fictitious name.

 

Think like a thief and you might be safe!!

 

Mel E

====

[Mel E]

Hughmer,

 

You are right - to an extent. The encryption system I suggest does not store the password anywhere (except in its randomly encryted form) and clears the memory cache when you shut it or the computer down.

 

Of course, you should also have Firewall, Anti-Virus and Anti-Spyware installed and I also use deletion software that overwrites cookies, deleted files, etc., on disk so that they are unrecoverable (Truecrypt will provide such software if you don't have any).

 

For most purposes you don't have to operate like Fort Knox. Make it quickly clear to your techno thief that he's not going to get anything sensitive from your computer, and he'll pass on to the next stolen one and mark yours for pub resale.

 

Mel E

====

 

 

[Hughmer]

Hi Mel

I use BCWipe and wasn't aware of Truecrypt's capabilities. but glad to see it can wipe files. Does it do the swap file as well or just the browser cache?

 

Re the passwords, I was referring to those that folk may have asked the 'puter to remember for them, - which would be stored as cookies. Having thought about this, the point I should have made was that you ought never to ask your travelling 'puter to remember crucial, ie bank, passwords. But if you do when using the laptop's at home, cookies should be wiped before travelling, and wiped means overwritten not just deleted, 'cos deleted files can be retrieved.

 

Can you confirm if the following is a scare story or true?

 

Thieves carry little gadgets that pick up wi-fi and bluetoothy type signals that a sleeping 'puter sends out. So if they pick up a signal they know there's a laptop in the vehicle.

 

I have always believed this to be the case so I turn OFF the laptop when it's in the van. Not standby or hibernating, but OFF.

[Mel E]

Hughmer,

 

I don't know of any bank logon system that allows the user to store a password or does so in a Cookie. And virtually all of them now have mouse-only selections in the log-on process so that even key-loggers can't record what's happening. I would advise anyone that, if your bank /building society /IFA, does not have such security then move somewhere else quickly.

 

Obviously, the WiFi signals are detectable with the right sort of equipment (Clive would probably be able to tell us more), and can even be intercepted and read with the right equipment. But, at present, that's top end crime rather than opportunistic laptop thieves, who are typically after what they can make quickly by selling the computer on to someone who knows how to penetrate it.

 

Mel E

====

[Dave Newell]

When the laptop is closed and in standby the bluetooth and WiFi parts are shut down to conserve battery power. If it isn't already set up to do so I suggest you change the setting in your power management options to switch to standby when the lid is closed. Better still is to shut the machine down fully when you've finished using it.

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

However, I really can't understand why anyone would merely hibernate a laptop while out.  Even when "off" they still consume some power, in "sleep" or "hibernation" modes rather more so.  It just seems so much wiser to switch it right off, disconnect the power line, and put it all away and out of sight when not actually using it.  That way, there is nothing to indicate its presence, either electronically or visually.  Surely better?

[Dave Newell]

You might only be shutting down for a short while, during a meal for example, so it might be easier to just shut the lid and have it automatically switch to stand by rather than having to completely reboot after your meal.

 

D.

[Mel E]

Hughmer - 2007-06-05 11:10 AM

 

Hi Mel

I use BCWipe and wasn't aware of Truecrypt's capabilities. but glad to see it can wipe files. Does it do the swap file as well or just the browser cache?

 

.

 

Hughmer,

 

I've checked further (by reading the 90+ page User Guide. As you and others have pointed out, memory is only erased when you shut the computer down properly. As far as other potential 'leaks' are concerned, Truecrypt recommend disabling the swap file before mounting an encrypted volume, and it shouldn't be a problem to leave it 'off' problem if you've got enough real memory - you can always re-enable it if you're doing something really memory-intensive such as video editing.

 

There are also other ways an encrypted volume can be 'got at' such as after a de-frag if you don't properly erase the cleared space. But I defrag quite rarely and then use a 10-line program to write any garbage I input repeatedly to disk creating a succession of files which, to be certain, I then delete using a secure erase.

 

Mel E

====

[livewire]

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-05 12:12 PM

 

However, I really can't understand why anyone would merely hibernate a laptop while out.  Even when "off" they still consume some power, in "sleep" or "hibernation" modes rather more so.  It just seems so much wiser to switch it right off, disconnect the power line, and put it all away and out of sight when not actually using it.  That way, there is nothing to indicate its presence, either electronically or visually.  Surely better?

 

They don't use any power whatsoever in hibernation mode, only on standby mode.

[Brian Kirby]

livewire - 2007-06-05 4:35 PM

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-05 12:12 PM However, I really can't understand why anyone would merely hibernate a laptop while out.  Even when "off" they still consume some power, in "sleep" or "hibernation" modes rather more so.  It just seems so much wiser to switch it right off, disconnect the power line, and put it all away and out of sight when not actually using it.  That way, there is nothing to indicate its presence, either electronically or visually.  Surely better?

They don't use any power whatsoever in hibernation mode, only on standby mode.

Don't want to get into a technical argument over this, but that is not my experience.  My own Fujitsu Siemens loses power even when "off" (I think due to a rather badly designed "soft off" command that I can't improve on), and my work IBM used to use power when hibernated.  It surely depends upon make, model, hibernate options available, and those which have been selected?  Otherwise, there would be no need ever to turn the computer off and re-boot it. 

The real point though, was whether it is wise to leave a laptop hibernated when away from a motorhome.  The point about power use while hibernated would only be of relevance to long term absences but, in view of my own experiences, seemed worth pointing out.

[enodreven]

Hi, BrianCan you explain the point you are trying to make"The real point though, was whether it is wise to leave a laptop hibernated when away from a motor-home. The point about power use while hibernated would only be of relevance to long term absences but, in view of my own experiences, seemed worth pointing out."As always set my laptop to hibernate when i close the lid and that is the way i always turn it off, i then put it in its bag and hide it at the back of one of the cupboards if I don't intend to use it for some time. I can assure you mine does not consume any battery power while on hibernation as i have double checked this by actually removing the battery for several hours and when it has been reinstated the laptop resumed from hibernation with no ill effects?By the way I also use Hibernation on my home computer as the start up time is so much quicker than the normal restarting ? again with no ill effects, I also always dissconnect the mains power ?hope this helps

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-05 6:14 PM

livewire - 2007-06-05 4:35 PM

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-05 12:12 PM However, I really can't understand why anyone would merely hibernate a laptop while out.  Even when "off" they still consume some power, in "sleep" or "hibernation" modes rather more so.  It just seems so much wiser to switch it right off, disconnect the power line, and put it all away and out of sight when not actually using it.  That way, there is nothing to indicate its presence, either electronically or visually.  Surely better?

They don't use any power whatsoever in hibernation mode, only on standby mode.

Don't want to get into a technical argument over this, but that is not my experience.  My own Fujitsu Siemens loses power even when "off" (I think due to a rather badly designed "soft off" command that I can't improve on), and my work IBM used to use power when hibernated.  It surely depends upon make, model, hibernate options available, and those which have been selected?  Otherwise, there would be no need ever to turn the computer off and re-boot it. 

The real point though, was whether it is wise to leave a laptop hibernated when away from a motorhome.  The point about power use while hibernated would only be of relevance to long term absences but, in view of my own experiences, seemed worth pointing out.

[livewire]

Hibernating works by copying the ram memory onto the hard drive, effectively 'freezing time'. It's worth shutting down properly occasionally so window can perform all the checks and repairs it does as part of the start up regime.

[Guest peter]

enodreven - 2007-06-06 7:39 PMHi, BrianCan you explain the point you are trying to make"The real point though, was whether it is wise to leave a laptop hibernated when away from a motor-home. The point about power use while hibernated would only be of relevance to long term absences but, in view of my own experiences, seemed worth pointing out."As always set my laptop to hibernate when i close the lid and that is the way i always turn it off, i then put it in its bag and hide it at the back of one of the cupboards if I don't intend to use it for some time. I can assure you mine does not consume any battery power while on hibernation as i have double checked this by actually removing the battery for several hours and when it has been reinstated the laptop resumed from hibernation with no ill effects?By the way I also use Hibernation on my home computer as the start up time is so much quicker than the normal restarting ? again with no ill effects, I also always dissconnect the mains power ?hope this helps

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-05 6:14 PM

livewire - 2007-06-05 4:35 PM

Brian Kirby - 2007-06-05 12:12 PM However, I really can't understand why anyone would merely hibernate a laptop while out.  Even when "off" they still consume some power, in "sleep" or "hibernation" modes rather more so.  It just seems so much wiser to switch it right off, disconnect the power line, and put it all away and out of sight when not actually using it.  That way, there is nothing to indicate its presence, either electronically or visually.  Surely better?

They don't use any power whatsoever in hibernation mode, only on standby mode.

Don't want to get into a technical argument over this, but that is not my experience.  My own Fujitsu Siemens loses power even when "off" (I think due to a rather badly designed "soft off" command that I can't improve on), and my work IBM used to use power when hibernated.  It surely depends upon make, model, hibernate options available, and those which have been selected?  Otherwise, there would be no need ever to turn the computer off and re-boot it. 

The real point though, was whether it is wise to leave a laptop hibernated when away from a motorhome.  The point about power use while hibernated would only be of relevance to long term absences but, in view of my own experiences, seemed worth pointing out.

Brian, Enodreven is quite correct. As all data held in memory is backed up on the Hard drive. It's like a hard shutdown except for all backup is done automatically. It then shuts down, using no power, to be re-started where you left off, when the power on switch is pressed. That reads about as clear as mud. :D

[Brian Kirby]

No, that's perfectly clear Peter, and thanks. 

I can only assume my previous experience, which was with older machines running Windows ME and 2000, may not have been with quite such sophisticated hibernation functions.  I assume yours are XP/Vista?  Probably just a case of evolving sophistication, or wrong settings on my part.

Thanks again.

[mom]

Just a quick word or two on security, for those who want medium security without going the whole hog of full disk encryption etc etc. Casual thieves aren't interested in the advanced techniques of seeking out a password amongst the bytes, they need to move the PC on, and the receiver needs to convert this to cash asap. If there is someone intent on identity theft, then short of very strong full disk encryption, there isn't much you can do. These people have software and techniques to circumvent the privacy attempts of the average user.However, here are some simple ways to be more secure, and feel more seure...1. Download the program "password safe" and store all your passwords there. This program is free, and all my friends use it as well as me. It stores user names, passwords and any text into a PGP encrypted file which is then easily backed up and nigh impossible to crack, even by the NSA and CIA in America (I believe PGP's use is, or was, illegal in the US for this reason!)http://passwordsafe.sourceforge.net/2. Use Firefox browser, rather then Internet Explorer. Firefox has much more protection agains popups and other unfriendly web surfing bits, and has a "Clear Private Data" button that removes cookies, saved passwords etc etc.3. If you are still concerned, leave your drive bay unscrewed and simply slide out your hard drive and carry it with you when away from the van. It is no more cumbersome to carry than a small satnav or blackberry, and barring a personal theft attack, is the best form of security. Get a pouch or casing for it to protect it a little, but modern ones travel well.You should always backup your data as well. There are several ways to do this, onto a CD or DVD, onto a memory stick (apparently 2 gig is only £10 at amazon) or my prefered method of backing up onto a USB hard drive (120 gig for £60-£80). I always keep all my data in a single directory structure, so that backup of data is easy... just drag and drop one top-level directory. However, I also backup my Desktop and Local Settings directories as the latter has the email data files for my Thunderbird email.