Estimate of gas usage / gaslow questions

[b6x]

Good afternoon.

 

We are currently awaiting delivery of an Adria Twin. The van has on board 2x13kgs gas bottles supplying a grill, fridge, water heater (although also runs on electric) and blown heating.

 

To recover some payload and storage space, I was considering removing the 13kg bottles and replacing with 2x 7kgs.

 

A couple of questions:

 

1) possibly dumb question; do garages etc offer an exhange offer for different size bottles? (only every exchanged like for like)

 

2) would anyone have a rough estimate how long 2x 7kgs would last with average usage of the above fitted items? We dont tend to go away for long periods, two weeks max and tend to use electric a fair bit for the water heater.

 

3) another option is to remove the 13kgs for gaslow (or equivilent). Whats the size comparison of the two different options? Would it save me space/payload?

 

4) if gaslow installed, is it ok to have the filler cap installed inside the van? Gas locker is just inside one of the rear doors and dont fancy drilling holes in the side of the van. Would obviously have to open van doors at filling station but I'm ok with that.

 

Many thanks in advance,

Steve

 

[Brian Kirby]

b6x - 2007-06-14 4:38 PM Good afternoon.

We are currently awaiting delivery of an Adria Twin. The van has on board 2x13kgs gas bottles supplying a grill, fridge, water heater (although also runs on electric) and blown heating.

To recover some payload and storage space, I was considering removing the 13kg bottles and replacing with 2x 7kgs.

A couple of questions:

1) possibly dumb question; do garages etc offer an exhange offer for different size bottles? (only every exchanged like for like)

It will depend on whose bottles are actually installed.  However, you should be able to swap 13Kg for 7Kg within the same brand, though you may have to cancel one agreement and take out another.  However, why not just get the dealer to change what is supplied from the outset?

2) would anyone have a rough estimate how long 2x 7kgs would last with average usage of the above fitted items? We dont tend to go away for long periods, two weeks max and tend to use electric a fair bit for the water heater.

It will depend on time of year and time on hook-up.  However, I be surprised if you'd use 2x7Kg bottles in a fortnight on hook-up - however, if you're in the Alps in winter without a hook-up, you could easily get through 2x13Kg!

3) another option is to remove the 13kgs for gaslow (or equivilent). Whats the size comparison of the two different options? Would it save me space/payload?

I think you'll find you have plenty of payload.  What I don't understand is where you think the extra space will come from.  Your gas locker won't shrink because you're using smaller bottles, and the difference in diameters between 13Kg and 7Kg isn't that great.  Most of the difference in size is in their height.

4) if gaslow installed, is it ok to have the filler cap installed inside the van? Gas locker is just inside one of the rear doors and dont fancy drilling holes in the side of the van. Would obviously have to open van doors at filling station but I'm ok with that.

You may be OK with that, but some filling stations may not.  If you intend travelling Europe, it is probably better not to have the filler where you'll not need to open doors to get at it.

Many thanks in advance,
Steve

[Mel E]

As an option that does release some space inside the gas locker - for things like electric hook-up cable, water hose, etc., - why not replace with a single re-fillable cylinder?

 

We have one 12Kg refillable fitted by MTH and it has a proper float gauge on the top showing how much gas is left (0 to 20). This makes it easy to know when you're getting near needing a refill. One bottle full lasts us ages - even in Norway last year using the heating every evening, we only used 18/20ths in 2.5 weeks (we refilled before it got too low).

 

It's best to fit the refill point outside the van. From memory, the Adria is Renault Master-based and this has a nice crimped edge at the bottom of the side body panel onto which to bolt the refill point. It's best not inside since, when disconnecting the filler from the connection point, there is an inevitable release of a small amount of pressurised gas.

 

Mel E

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[b6x]

Hi.

 

The main idea of putting smaller bottles in was to do, as Mel E suggested, make a bit of room for levelling wedges/cables etc.

 

I like the idea of one refillable bottle. I'm sure that would be enough for us. The Twin we have ordered is a Ducato based one, and the locker is situated in the rear off-side, as below. I'd like to avoid drilling van and put filler just inside the locker door or on the side, if it's legal/possible.

 

Any ideas on cost of installation?

 

Thanks for help Brian/Mel. Much appreciated.

 

p.s. apologies for crudely editted image

 

[crinklystarfish]

Hi,

You could do it the way you indicate and if you did it yourself a couple of hundred pounds will be the approximate cost. It's an easy job as long as you are a competent and careful worker. Best to have it checked once done though. You may end up having trouble at some refill points as some forecourt staff are windy about anything other than an external filler point. Mounting internally will also mean you'll get a dose of 'residual' gas in your van every time you fill up, this will be unpleasant and could be dangerous. When you disconnect the filler, there's always an escape of gas under high pressure. For these reasons I too would mount the filler externally, no question.

One other solution may be a fixed LPG tank slung under your van, that way you would free up your entire gas locker and could mount the filler somewhere under the body panels, providing there's no likelihood of it coming into contact with terra firma! There are some nice, light and compact tanks available from a number of suppliers. Obviously this solution is a bit more expensive and would be reliant upon there being a sufficient niche somewhere on your chassis. I feel pretty confident there would be though.

Good Luck

[Clive]

Fitting a proper bulk tank has other advantages as well, like a proper in cab fuel gague, no flexible low pressure hose to perrish and it won,t become a missile if you prank the motor as its bolted in position. (Not held by a bit of webbing to light weight timber(ish) furniture.) Plus you get a spare locker to boot.

 

Although MTH have had a bashing on this forum on another posting I did obtain all my bits and lots of good advice for my own tank instalation from them and still believe them to be competant and genuine.

Have a look at http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/GASKIT.htm for details.

 

 

[Mel E]

Steve,

 

There should be no need to drill any holes except to bolt the filler fitting on - and that should not be a problem, as they are two quite small bolts. I believe that a small metal plate bent at right angles, could be bolted up through the bottom of the rear plastic fender. The gas locker should already have at least one hole through the van floor to provide a safety exit for any leaking gas, so you can take the filler hose out through there tyo a very adjacent fitting.

 

If you're anywhere near Telford, Dave Newell will do the job very economically.

 

Mel E

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[davenewellhome]

Thanks Mel. I use and can supply the MTH system at the same price as they charge, i.e. a single 12KG cylinder complete with filler point, highh pressure filler hose, take off pipe and all necessary fittings is £210 plus fitting @ £30 plus VAT. This is not intended to be an advert, just for information.

 

D.

[Guest 656]

I found CMR a top class company when it came to fitting a Gaslow system in 2006. Had it over a year now and no problems.

 

http://www.cmr-limited.com/gas.html

 

Dave

 

656

[b6x]

Thanks for the replies.  Unfortunately, down south,  we dont have a Dave Newell to hand...  that would be good.  (Anyone know of a southern-based Dave Newell?)  Maybe a weekend in Telford would be possible.

 

CMR is also definately worth considering as they are based pretty local.  Would be tempted with a single 11kg setup and save on having to install changeovers etc.

 

Definately a few things worth considering.....  although I do like the idea of an internal gauge (as with the underslung option).

 

Choices choices

 

 

 

[Don Madge]

Steve,

 

I've had the MTH refillable for four years now and we originally had the filling point as Mel suggests under the rear end.

 

Due to advancing years and disability I was finding very difficult to get down and attach the gun when refilling.

 

In the end we had to have an external filling point put in the side of the van. I quite understand your reluctance to having it done, we felt the same but needs must.

 

Dave Newell has done a few jobs on my Timberland and I can highly recommend him, the only thing I'm unhappy about is he now moved into the VAT bracket. 8-) 8-)

 

I'll try and attach a couple of pics. I got there in the end.

 

Don

[Dave Newell]

"......the only thing I'm unhappy about is he now moved into the VAT bracket. "

 

Not by choice Don, I assure you :-(

 

D.

[crinklystarfish]

Though I do not wish to be in any way disrespectful to MTH (I have already made my feelings clear from early in the infamous thread), the Gaslow 'rival' (and for me superior) system is based on Stako equipment as imported by MTH, or Autogas 2000, or CAK Tanks, etc. etc. I don't perceive it as the 'MTH system' and it should be known that the very high quality Stako refillable bottles and vapour take-off fixed tanks that motorhomers use are indeed available from any number of suppliers. Autogas 2000 supplied absolutely everything I needed from stock and were very helpful. They even changed the standard take-off valves to POL style at no charge so I didn't have to use adapters to connect my standard propane pigtails/regulators. Fewer adapters = fewer chances for leaks.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I had a fixed external tank in a VW westfalia years ago.

 

I think where space is a premium they are a good solution

[Mel E]

The big advanmtage of the MTH tanks (which I believe are by Polish maker Stako) is the inclusion of a very accurate float gauge, which is not part of the Gaslow system.

 

No other method gives an accurate readout of how much gas is still in the cylinder except the relatively expensive, bolt-on untrasound system. As I've noted before, measuring the pressure inside the cylinder tells you absolutely nothing about the contents except that there is still some liquid gas in there - useless for knowing when to fill up.

 

Mel E

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