First time in Europe: Impressions

[Bill]

I have just completed a month in France and Spain, my first time abroad in a motorhome. Hopefully these remarks will be useful to others about to take their vans across the Channel for the first time. Sometimes a newbie notices things which an old hand takes for granted, but are important to other newbies.

 

 

Before I left I knew Spain fairly well, but France not at all. I speak a few words of Spanish, but no French. (Also fluent Flemish, but this was useful only in the Pas-de-Calais, i.e. close enough to Belgium to pick up Flemish FM stations, which are much better than their French counterparts.)

 

There is a widespread story that the French refuse to speak to you unless you speak French to them, and speak it well. I did not once encounter this.

 

 

Take your own music. I decided to rely on local radio stations: a few of these are teenage thump-thump “music”, which is not to my taste, but most are endless talk shows about local politics, which wouldn’t interest me even if I understood them.

 

 

RHD has not been a problem at all: the driving position is high enough to see over cars, so there is no need to see round them. Admittedly my Merc 709 is higher than most, but I should think the near-universal Sevell cab is high enough for this to hold true.

 

 

The MMM supplement on France warns that it is a good idea to carry a flat universal plug for sinks, hand basins etc. I agree wholeheartedly, but they can be difficult to find. I bought mine at Robert Dyas in Weybridge, Surrey. Not many branches carry them, but presumably they could be ordered. The bar-code number is 5 017511 003661.

 

On my next trip I will also carry a loo seat – from about the middle of France southwards they are generally not fitted. It must be a cultural thing, as this is true even in up-market well-run places.

 

 

If you have any favourite items of British groceries be sure to take an ample supply. Tea-bags are the obvious example, though in the tourist areas of Spain they are usually available in supermarkets – at a price.

 

Be aware that all supermarkets close on Sundays.

 

 

The Caravan Club told me that only about 2% of French sites use the old 2-pin hook-ups, and the other 98% use our type. My experience has been that it is exactly the other way round. Certainly it would be madness to leave without a 2-pin “tail”.

 

Do not be fooled into thinking you can use an ordinary Continental/UK adaptor. They may look the same but there is a subtle difference, and you would have to carve away a bit of plastic to make it fit – almost certainly a VERY bad idea.

 

The electricity is very seldom more than 6-amp, often less. Even 6 amps is pretty marginal for a microwave, and a normal household kettle will blow the trip. So, when you settle in, check to see if the door to the trip is locked, i.e. if you can reset it yourself.

 

I have a small travel kettle, which looks like the 12v ones, but is actually 220v. It is only 300 watts (1.4 amps), so even the puniest hook-up can cope. It is slow, but it gets there, and is worth its weight in gold. I got it from Robert Dyas, for only £5, but I think the line has been discontinued.

 

One small mod I am planning to my rig, and I would recommend to others, is a switch so that I can turn off the 220v leisure-battery charger. With a really marginal supply, turning off absolutely everything else might make it just possible to use the microwave.

 

 

Try to park in shade, but if you have to park in the sun turn the vehicle such that the fridge is not on the side on which the sun is shining – else the fridge may not be able to keep up. For similar reasons, beer should be stored low down in the vehicle and away from anywhere which will receive direct sun.

 

 

N-roads are fast and easy but boring, and there are very few lay-bys. In France, the D-roads are much nicer, but slower, and the quality varies enormously: some are little more than tracks, some are N-roads in all but name, and most are quite decent.

 

 

French signposting is diabolical. Turn-offs are not signposted until you are right on top of them – by which time you have gone past, so you have to find somewhere to do a U-turn. Not the easiest in a 23 foot motorhome.

 

This is also true of roundabouts, but at least there you have the option to go round again.

 

The advance signs to roundabouts are signed only with place names (useless if you are not intimately familiar with local geography) but the road number does appear in a little yellow tag at the top of the sign to each exit. You cannot hope to read it until it is too late to do anything about it, so you have no choice but to go round again.

 

Spanish signing is very much better.

 

 

 

Maps. I took a road atlas of Europe, of the sort widely sold in the UK.

Two problems:

The scale is 1 cm = 10 km, which is too small

If you double it back, to make it easier to handle, after a few times the spine breaks

 

In France I bought the relevant Michelin Regional fold-out maps which are the ideal scale at 1 cm = 2.75 km, have no handling problems, and are widely available.

 

In Spain I bought a Michelin Regional for the area from the French border to Valencia, but thereafter couldn’t find any. The scale is 1 cm = 4 km, which is acceptable.

 

I wholeheartedly recommend the Michelin Regionals and I think it would be a good idea to buy all that you will possibly need before you leave.

 

 

 

I got onto one French toll-road by mistake: the map showed it as non-toll, and there wasn’t any sign saying it was (or maybe there was and I missed it – that piece of information is generally supplied in very small print).

 

Once at the entry barrier there was no turn-out, no choice but to take a ticket and go onto the toll-road. I turned off at the next exit, where I was confronted by an automatic barrier which demanded payment by card. No option to pay by cash, and no manned-booth alternative. And no way to get back onto the motorway and try a later exit.

 

What would have happened if I hadn’t had a credit card? No doubt I’d still be there. As it was I was most reluctant to put my card into their machine – what if there was a problem and it just swallowed it? Losing my credit card early in the trip would have been a real disaster for me. But I had no choice. In the event it accepted my MasterCard, and returned it without problem.

 

Is there some way of paying for French (and for that matter Spanish) toll-roads without risking one’s credit card? Pre-paid cards perhaps? I have used toll-roads in a fair number of other countries, and always there has been a cash alternative and a manned booth.

 

 

Our credit cards don’t always work – there can be a problem with chip-and-pin compatibility - so be sure to have enough cash to pay for any purchase and/or (at a petrol station) ask the cashier before filling up.

 

Some French petrol stations have a card operated system, which I didn’t understand, so didn’t attempt – a pity as they tended to be the cheapest stations.

 

 

Money:

My plan was to carry €100 travellers cheques and to keep a cash float; any time the float dropped below €200 I would cash a travellers cheque at a bank – banks don’t charge commission for this (in theory; in practice sometimes they do).

 

The credit card would be for emergencies. That way I wouldn’t have to endure the rip-off fees of British credit cards, and would avoid having large sums of cash in the van.

 

Many Spanish supermarkets will accept British credit cards but demand photo-id – Sod’s Law decrees that it will be in the van, at the far side of the parking lot. If you have one of the new credit card sized drivers licences I would suggest keeping it in your credit card wallet.

 

My plan worked reasonably well in tourist areas, not so well outside tourist areas. One bank would cash a travellers cheque only if I had an account there – the Catch-22 aspect seemed lost on them.

 

At another the teller, who spoke excellent English, said I should go to a bank. I gestured at the banking hall, the tellers, the financial services booths etc., and said But surely this is a bank? “No, you need a proper bank – this is just a cash place”. Next time you want to win a drink in a pub, set a little riddle:

Q: When is a bank not a bank?

A: When it is just a cash place.

 

 

The quality of campsites varies a lot – especially in Spain – so I would suggest parking outside and having a nose-round before booking in. They don’t seem to notice, let alone mind.

 

For the same reason, unless you know a site is good, book in for only one night. If it turns out OK it is easy to extend; if not you can leave without having a row (in a foreign language!) over refunds.

 

Communications:

British mobile phone charges are truly extortionate. I have heard that the EU is about to clamp down on them – can’t be soon enough.

 

Hotspot availability is erratic, and prices vary enormously. I plan to invest in a “sniffer” (a gadget about the size of a key-ring which tells you when there is a hotspot within range. I also plan to get Skype.

 

French payphones all seem to demand a card – with my non-existent French I didn’t even try to find out about them. Most Spanish payphones will accept coins, and have a button which allows you to switch the instructions into the language of your choice.

 

[chas]

Bill- Thats an exellent post, and although I knew a lot of what you wrote, some parts where new to me with how things change. For a new motorhomer going abroad they need to print it off and keep it with them. I take it you did not use the French aires as this also can be a source of quires by newbies. Regards chas

[Way2Go]

Very good report Bill.  Thank you

[Tony Jones]

Well done Bill, new travellers will find this very useful - especially all in one place. Some of your info has appeared on here before, but only in random bits and pieces, not always identifiable from the thread title! Maybe the Mods will "fix" this one at the top of the page?

 

Just a couple of bits to add about UK "plastic" in France:

 

1) petrol stations: As long as there's a cashier in the kiosk, your UK card should be fine (sometimes chip/pin, sometimes signature). It's those 24-hr unmanned ones which use a different system from everyone else in Europe - for once it's France out of step, not us. For the last 3 years people have been telling me "we're bringing it into line next year," but I'll believe it when I see it. Very few "manned" stations are open evenings, Sundays, or lunchtimes, so plan refuelling accordingly.

 

2) commission charges: We have a Nationwide current account specially for holiday money. We can use their debit card (AND the credit card they gave me at the same time) without any "currency commission," whether on purchases or cash withdrawals. Usual charge for cash withdrawals on the credit card, but only the same as you'd pay in the UK.

With those 2 cards in our pocket (separately), we don't bother with travellers' cheques anymore.

 

Once again, well done.

 

Tony & Liz

[mrs p hancox]

That was brill and yes I can't understand the petrol stations we tried two unmanned ones still cant fathom it out can anyone enlighten.

[Brian Kirby]

The simplest answer to fuel in France is supermarkets.  They invariably take credit cards and are usually cheaper, which is why roadside filling stations are now so rare.  Just watch the heights of the canopies, because some are too low for coachbuilts!  But you can usually find a way round even that.

It is usually only the very minor autoroute exits that are unmanned: most present no problems, though you do have to choose your queue carefully, and absolutely avoid the "telepayage" lane on the extreme left, unless you have the card!  At the toll stations, and at some very busy exits, there tend to be seperate lanes for cash and for cards.

There is little in either France or Spain that cannot be bought with plastic, though some of the Spanish supermarkets, especially Alcampos away from the tourist areas, do make a huge fuss about "foreign" cards.

I agree with Tony, Nationwide credit card is excellent, with no commission and a reasonably good exchange rate as well.  We just take cash and plastic.  Gave up with Traveller's Cheques years ago; they're just far too much hassle and you keep paying bits of commission here and there as you use them.

Overall, I think around 50% of campsites in France are still on two pin plugs, and rather fewer in Spain.  Campsite electrics can be quite eccentric, especially in Spain, and even more so in Portugal, so make sure your van has a working RCD on its incoming mains switch, and test it after connecting!

Don't expect to get more that 5/6A from a hook-up.  We even found one in Portugal that was 2A!  Forget microwaves and electric hob plates.  A Remoska from "Lakeland" will give you the rough equivalent of an oven on about 500W, so you can run the fridge, battery charger, shaver, toys and cook all on 5A.  Hairdryer = toilet block, with a two pin adapter!  Electric kettle, OK if under 750W, otherwise you're pushing your luck!  Remember some sites will plug you in, but will lock the pillar door with your cable behind it.  You have to get them out to unlock and disconnect you when you want to leave.

Paying sites?  Just turn up and ask for one night, or say you are unsure how long you'll stay.  If you really are "overnighting" and want to leave the next day, ask to pay on arrival, because it avoids the queue next morning (doesn't work if they lock your cable in but, if they know, some just leave the door unlocked so you can unplug yourself; others won't).  However, quite a few "municipals" won't do this, and just insist you pay on exit. 

The only time you'll have any 'tiffs' with reception, is if you've actually advance booked a week or more, but then want to leave early and claim a refund.  Under French law you've made a contract, and they are entitled to hold you to it.  Still, with a motorhome, who pre books?  Anyhow it's only the big, family holiday camp type sites, in the honeypot areas, in the peak season, who resort to these tactics, and they are easy to avoid.  If they have too many rules about minimum stays, just thank them, smile sweetly, and go elsewhere!

[Peter Pan]

Bill & Brian

 

Thanks for the excellent advice.

 

On th question of finance, I have considered opening a EURO bank (British) account but have not investigated the possibilities yet. Has anyone gone down this route?

[dshague]

Bill thanks for this post and every one else found it very useful

Been going to France for years but learn something every day on this site

[Jacko]

Simple way to open a French bank account for those living in UK is to go www.britline.com where you can open an account online. Once you have the account you can get a Carte-bleu which will allow you to get cash from French cash machines and also use the 24/7 petrol stations at supermarkets.

 

I pay 13 Euros a year for my card though not sure what the price of the card is on britline. Surprised by the way, that people find it difficult to use automatic petrol pumps as there is as a step by step guide in pictoral form at the pump.

[Tony Jones]

Jacko - 2007-06-21 4:43 PM

 

Surprised by the way, that people find it difficult to use automatic petrol pumps as there is as a step by step guide in pictoral form at the pump.

 

True, but the problem (which you probably won't encounter with your French CB) is that most French "automatic" pumps have a unique form of the chip&pin system, which only accepts French cards. As I said above, people in France keep assuring me that it'll change "next year," but next year never actually becomes "this year!"

 

Tony

[Usinmyknaus]

Bill,

 

From a fellow newbie - thanks. Very useful.

 

Bob

[Brian Kirby]

We have recently closed our Credit Agricole "Britline" account, after originally opening it to buy our van in France.  For that purpose, it was very good, enabling us to transfer money as and when, albeit at a time when the pound was much higher than the Euro.

We had a cheque book and also a VISA debit card.  The Cheques are almost the equivalent of cash in France, and almost invariably accepted as payment without further question.

However, the cheque account itself pays no interest on balances and the card cost 6 Euros per month.  We also had a "savings" account which did pay interest, but the Euro interest rate is quite poor, and is paid gross, so has to be declared to HMCE in UK.  After tax, the rate is far less than we get from our Nationwide Flex Account.

In practice, the loss in value in transferring money to the account, the cost of the card, and the poor interest rate, means it just becomes bad value compared to getting currency from the Post Office, using the Nationwide Credit Card with no exchange rate penalty, and receiveing interest on the Flex Account balance.

We have found no problems with an English credit card in France, Italy, Germany, or Portugal, and only a few problems in Spain.  We found that where the English card was problemmatic, the French card was no more readily accepted. 

The only practical difference between using the Nationwide card in UK and abroad, has been that a passport, or photo driving licence, was often (but not invariably) requested in Italy, Portugal and Spain as ID.  However, that is merely because being Brits, we don't carry ID cards.  This has never, to my recollection, been the case in France. 

Using the UK card in certain large supermarkets in Spain, mainly Alcampo, can be a bit of a performance but in all cases saving one, it was accepted.  The card has been widely used for buying fuel, propane, pitches at campsites, meals, and general food and drink from supermarkets and other stores.  We tend to avoid autoroutes etc, but if we do, we pay the tolls in cash. 

Where we pay in restaurants by card, we tip in cash.  Otherwise, the cash is used for parking, visits, postcards, stamps, the odd sundry, ice cream, the odd drink at a bar and those few campsites that don't accept cards.

[Bill]

First, a “thank you” to all those who made kind remarks.

 

And now a few updates.

 

 

Bill - 2007-06-20 12:09 AM

 

On my next trip I will also carry a loo seat

 

 

Bought one in Portugal (for €6). Presumably a loo seat is a loo seat is a loo seat - but I have learned to expect the unexpected. We shall see.

 

The electricity is very seldom more than 6-amp, often less. Even 6 amps is pretty marginal for a microwave, and a normal household kettle will blow the trip. So, when you settle in, check to see if the door to the trip is locked, i.e. if you can reset it yourself.

 

I have a small travel kettle, which looks like the 12v ones, but is actually 220v. It is only 300 watts (1.4 amps), so even the puniest hook-up can cope. It is slow, but it gets there, and is worth its weight in gold. I got it from Robert Dyas, for only £5, but I think the line has been discontinued.

 

I had to fly back to England for a week; while there I bought (£10 at Robert Dyas) a 1000w Russell Hobbs kettle. This has pretty much solved the 6A problem.

 

One small mod I am planning to my rig, and I would recommend to others, is a switch so that I can turn off the 220v leisure-battery charger. With a really marginal supply, turning off absolutely everything else might make it just possible to use the microwave.

 

 

I now think this would be overkill

 

In Spain I bought a Michelin Regional for the area from the French border to Valencia, but thereafter couldn’t find any. The scale is 1 cm = 4 km, which is acceptable.

 

I wholeheartedly recommend the Michelin Regionals and I think it would be a good idea to buy all that you will possibly need before you leave.

 

 

While in England I was able to find (at WH Smith, bar code 9 782067 125179) a ring-backed version of the Michelin Regional 1 cm = 4 km, covering the whole of Spain and Portugal . This was £12 - substantially cheaper than buying all the individual maps and (so far!) the binding is holding up.

 

[Mike Parke]

Peter Pan - 2007-06-20 8:31 PM

 

Bill & Brian

 

Thanks for the excellent advice.

 

On th question of finance, I have considered opening a EURO bank (British) account but have not investigated the possibilities yet. Has anyone gone down this route?

 

We considered a French a/c with Credit Agricole and /or a Lloyds 'Euro' a/c thro' their Isle of Man banking arm but, to be honest, the whole procedure for either seemed an awful lot of hassle for limited benefit! Contrary to what most people say we take the whole of our holiday money in cash! Well , what harm does it do??

 

Regards, Mike & Cherry

[Bazza454]

Mike Parke - 2007-08-02 11:26 PM

Peter Pan - 2007-06-20 8:31 PM Bill & Brian Thanks for the excellent advice. On th question of finance, I have considered opening a EURO bank (British) account but have not investigated the possibilities yet. Has anyone gone down this route?

We considered a French a/c with Credit Agricole and /or a Lloyds 'Euro' a/c thro' their Isle of Man banking arm but, to be honest, the whole procedure for either seemed an awful lot of hassle for limited benefit! Contrary to what most people say we take the whole of our holiday money in cash! Well , what harm does it do?? Regards, Mike & Cherry

Mike,

It does no harm whatsoever - as long as you don't get mugged or robbed.

[Mel B]

We use credit cards for fuel and admission fees (where they are more than just a few euros) and take the rest in cash, we hide some in the camper (very well hidden) along with the small amount of British money we've taken and split the euros between us and at the same time split the credit cards - he has my CC Club Visa and his CC Club Visa, I have both of our Nationwide cards, that way if one of us looses our bags, or gets it nicked etc, we can cancel the stolen cards and still have some usable cards.

[BensGrandad]

I have driven through Europe many times but never taken a campervan. My wife and I intend to do this in January driving from Sussex to Algarve.

 

My van is an old Sherpa Highwayman, which I am assured will do the trip provided I dont try and get there in a few hours.

 

I am at the planning stage at the moment and would appreciate any advice or tips that would help me.

 

I am waiting for the ferry companies to issue their winter schedules before deciding whether to go via Bilbao, Santander or Dover or even St Malo any body have any views good or bad on this. We are weighing up the extra cost of the boat to Spain as against the fuel to drive through France etc.

[Homenaway]

Thanks Bill,

some useful advice.

 

We avoid autoroutes as much as possible on our trips to France B-)

 

This year we bought both the Michelin France road atlas paperback and Michelin Spain and Portugal spiral from Amazon at a good discount. In previous years our spiral bound France Atlas usually has fallen apart after two months of daily use :-(

 

We find them both essential despite having satnav which let us down a few times.

 

Both countries are re-numbering a lot of their roads from National to departmental numbers and we've learnt that you can't usually navigate by road numbers in France - there are so many D3 and D7 etc roads in each area but often the green direction signs point to a major city many kilometres away - usually St Etienne from anywhere in the middle (lol)

 

We have found that the Nationwide debit card works at most places but a useful tip when at the supermarket checkout when you put the card in the reader is to select Fr or EUR as the currency then you will be using the Nationwide exchange rate which I understand will be better than doing the transaction in Pounds at the shop's rate.

 

I'm sure you'll be keen as we are to get back over there

 

Steve

[ike]

Re ferry crossings to france we use a company called motorhome ticket club which has gotten us some excellent deals in the past, particularly with SeaFrance Dover/Calais eg 24ft van £62 return - booking an early saver. this ticket has some restrictions ie changes can be made but an admin fee is charged. However we have in the past booked this type of ticket and changed crossings direct with SeaFrance sometimes for free sometimes for a small charge. I've been told that the C & C Club will match any fare you have been quoted but haven't tried that myself.