patr Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I am sure that there are many satisfied Swift owners out there but one, who has had a dreadful experience, has just started a website. http://www.swiftmotorhomes.com It comes as a shock to me that Swift have phoned him to register their dissappointment, shame they didn't phone earlier. My very best wishes to this Gentleman who has suffered at the hands of inept workmanship and a couldn't care less attitude that is endemic in the Motorhome industry in this country. Fight the Pirates - Swiftly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 patr - 2007-06-22 2:39 PM and a couldn't care less attitude that is endemic in the Motorhome industry in this country. This really will not do! Endemic means 'characteristic of', 'prevalent', 'exclusive to'. Yes, this guy has had problems, but that really isn't any justification for you to knock an entire industry. I, for one, am getting fed up with this 'everything in Britain is automatically bad and it's always better elsewhere' culture. Don't like it? The solution is obvious - go live elsewhere. Sorry if this is too specific - but it's responding to a very specific posting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chigman Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 put it this way...I haven`t a motorhome yet but after hearing about so many horror stories about brit manufacturers and thier couldn`t care less attitude I have gone and ordered a german van.Now I no this is no guarantee but does instill a bit of confidence because I only hear of the odd problem with german vans and plenty of people have them.Just hope I haven`t jinxed myself. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 This chap has had a bad deal, no question but I'm with Mel on this, don't tar the entire industry with this brush, please. Believe me there are as many problems occur on continental 'vans as do on British built. German wiring for example is always entertaining as they regularly use black and blue wires for positive and brown for negative (in the DC circuits) Nothing wrong with that per se but as brown is live in mains and blue is neutral you could easily be caught out thinking that black would be negative and brown positive. Trigano's Tribute is a pretty rough piece of work by many accounts and designed so that you can't remove the fridge without stripping the entire kitchen! There are plenty more bad uns out there and they're not all Brit 'vans. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patr Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Crickey! "This will not do!" Your not Patricia Hewitt are you? "go and live elsewhere! " A tad strong don't you think? I live here because I believe in free speech, reasoned arguement and the right to express an opinion. As for my motorhome, I bought it here in the UK as I believe in spending my money in the UK wherever possible. I do believe that when a Gentleman praised the service he received from a UK dealer on the handover of his German made van your response was: "I'm very sorry to strike any negative note, but it still wouldn't persuade me to buy in the UK rather than in Germany where you would have saved £thousands." Thank you so much for putting me, a mere newbie, in my place in such a calm and collected manner. Mea Culpa for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chigman Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Quote... Expert Posts: 1430 100010010010010025 Location: Telford, Shropshire This chap has had a bad deal, no question but I'm with Mel on this, don't tar the entire industry with this brush, please. Believe me there are as many problems occur on continental 'vans as do on British built. German wiring for example is always entertaining as they regularly use black and blue wires for positive and brown for negative (in the DC circuits) Nothing wrong with that per se but as brown is live in mains and blue is neutral you could easily be caught out thinking that black would be negative and brown positive. Trigano's Tribute is a pretty rough piece of work by many accounts and designed so that you can't remove the fridge without stripping the entire kitchen! There are plenty more bad uns out there and they're not all Brit 'vans. I hear what you say,but at the end of the day it`s all about confidence when spending mega bucks on dream vehicle you hope will last for many years to come. Now being new to this motorhome game I needed to know what the best vehicle and manufacturer was for me,and reading through many many posts on here and other forums for a couple of years i came to the conclusion that I was going to by german motorhome.WHY...Because I read more good stuff about them than british makes.Plain and simple.It`s all about confidence when you haven`t got money to throw away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 patr, Don't be demoralised. It's perfectly reasonable to contribute any information that may be useful to others and your opinion is as valid as the next person's. I share the view that German motorhomes are generally of a high build quality, and I fail to see why their choice of colour coding in electrical circuits detracts from this. It seems to me to be a perfectly sensible choice to play the probability game with such a huge investment. I would happily own very many British 'vans, but it's a different matter to assert that the quality of 'vans made / converted here is generally to a satisfactory standard. It manifestly and demonstrably isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Well now, it's interesting, isn't it, that the gentleman with the Swift problems has set up on his web site an on line vote for Swift owners: Are you happy with your Swift? When I checked (the vote seems to be removed now), 92% said YES. In such a vote that's very high indeed. It's evidence! All the rest posted so far has been opinion. Now I have no problem in people giving opinions on this or any other forum, provided they are presented as such. Everything that has been said about British and Continental mortorhomes so far in this post (except Dave's posting) is just that - opinion. And it's clear that the weight of these opinion postings is putting people off buying British motorhomes - even, I guess, when the company is foreign owned like Autocruise and Autotrail. And PATR, I stated clearly that I thought Lowdham's delivery service was superb. I also made clear, quite factually why it still wouldn't persuade me to buy in the UK - because I don't want to pay £10,000 or more extra. That isn't to do with dealer service, or knocking the UK industry, it's just a fact that manufacturers and dealers make motorhomes more expensive here. Incidentally, Dave Newell is part of the industry you sweepingly described as 'couldn't care less'. And I know he does care. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patr Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 Crinklystarfish Thank you but I am certainly not demoralised! I am astounded at the audacity of someone who suggests I go and live elsewhere for expressing an opinion. And, having won a long legal battle to get my hard earned money back from a British manufacturer and dealer who treated me with utter contempt until proceedings started, I feel entitled to express my opinion and empathy with the many hard working and honest folks out there who have suffered at the hands of the motorhome industry in this country. The sorry tales of people on this site, and the 'other place, paint a sorry picture of shoddy workmanship, dealers who wash their hands of you as you drive through their gates and manufacturers who do not give a damm. I wish that forums such as this were around when I bought my British van. It would have saved me money, worry and the feeling of utter helplessness, frustration and despair when someone has £50K of your money, you have a van which you cannot use and a dealer/manufacturer who effectively puts two fingers up at you. I now own a German van, bought and paid for in this country and, apart from a few screws which needed tightening , I have not had one problem with it. I will never purchase a British van again but I will continue to live here...if that is OK by you Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 PATR, Yes, some British vans come out of the factory with faults. Some major. But so do some German, Italian, etc., vans. And many British built vans are fine (92% of Swifts apparently!). You've had a bad experience. So have others. Not surprising seeing as British-built vans still outsell continental imports by a considerable margin. My complaint about your post was very specific: don't tar an entire idustry in such a sweeping manner. I'm allowed to say that surely? It's a reasonable request isn't it? I had a Mercedes car which was not good - and I got rid of it after only 18 months (and whatever they tell you about Mercedes depreciation is rubbish!) But I haven't concluded that ALL Mercedes are rubbish. I just won't ever buy one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chigman Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Mel E - 2007-06-22 6:25 PM PATR, Yes, some British vans come out of the factory with faults. Some major. But so do some German, Italian, etc., vans. And many British built vans are fine (92% of Swifts apparently!). You've had a bad experience. So have others. Not surprising seeing as British-built vans still outsell continental imports by a considerable margin. My complaint about your post was very specific: don't tar an entire idustry in such a sweeping manner. I'm allowed to say that surely? It's a reasonable request isn't it? I had a Mercedes car which was not good - and I got rid of it after only 18 months (and whatever they tell you about Mercedes depreciation is rubbish!) But I haven't concluded that ALL Mercedes are rubbish. I just won't ever buy one again. Just thought I would bring to your attention that the voteing system on that website was suspected to be corrupt and therefore withdrawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chigman Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 apologies.somehow my post ended up in the quote of your post *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 patr - 2007-06-22 4:58 PM Crickey! "This will not do!" Your not Patricia Hewitt are you? "go and live elsewhere! " A tad strong don't you think? I live here because I believe in free speech, reasoned arguement and the right to express an opinion. As for my motorhome, I bought it here in the UK as I believe in spending my money in the UK wherever possible. I do believe that when a Gentleman praised the service he received from a UK dealer on the handover of his German made van your response was: "I'm very sorry to strike any negative note, but it still wouldn't persuade me to buy in the UK rather than in Germany where you would have saved £thousands." Thank you so much for putting me, a mere newbie, in my place in such a calm and collected manner. Mea Culpa for posting. PatrYou are over reacting a bit, you know. You say one of your reasons for living in UK is "free speech, reasoned arguement and the right to express an opinion". Well and good. However, extrapolating from one very dissatisfied Swift owner, to allege that the whole of the British motorhome industry is as poor as you portrayed it, is not "reasoned argument". At best it is chop logic; it is unbalanced and unfair.The thing with free speech is that it is a two way street. If you make trenchant, unbalanced and unreasonable statements you invite much the same in return. If you can't cope with that, you do rather lose your claim to a "right to express an opinion". Be provocative by all means, it's part of the fun. But, having set out to provoke, don't come crying when you get back as good as you gave!Clearly the Kon Tiki is a stinker. However, if you read all the complaints, the responsibility is far from all being Swift's, although they have become the main target of the website. Who fitted the Gaslow? Who fitted the rear view system? Even, who fitted the replacement door? There is at least as much of a case that the dealer has performed badly, and prepared the van carelessly, yet he seems to get away pretty much scott free. Yes, people do seem to have done well in posting spares across Europe and no, they should not have needed to do so. Nevertheless, one manufacturer's inconsistent manufacturing quality control, and one dealer's seemingly sloppy work, do not a defective industry make. That is not to say that both don't need to do much better, just that there are good guys out there, and it is damaging and unfair to them not to acknowledge that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 We purchased a New British Built Autotrail Scout via Brownhills at Newark. Are we the only ones who had a good experience and a good vehicle - which we still have today after nearly 10 years? Thought I would balance the debate a bit! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 But Clive, with your skills and abilities you could have kept even the worst minger in tip-top shape, and I seem to recall your list of probables had a resounding lack of Brits on it. (lol) Respectfully, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapide561 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Evening As the owner of the Kontiki, I feel compelled to respond. Many of you I am sure read other forums and will note how pleased I was with my previous van - a Compass from the Explorer Group. Equally, I know people who will not buy an Explorer product again - I certainly would. I agree with the above comments re the Gaslow system etc - but I have not suggested Swift fitted this. On a similar theme, Swift do not manufacture the EC200/PSU 2007 power box thing, but it was supplied and fitted in one of their products. The second EC200 was fitted by the dealer but this was faulty. The third is functioning as one would expect. The rear camera was a "standard piece of equipment" and so presumably factory fitted. The new door was fitted by the dealer. The van is more than lilely going into storage again soon. I had originally planned six months in it and following the death of my dog, coupled with the fact that the habitation door would neither open nor close at one point, terminated my trip overseas. Again, you will note I do not claim to have curtailed my trip purely on the basis of the faulty motorhome, but it was a factor. I am not trying to apportion blame, or remove blame from anyone. What I do know is the van has become a real source of nuisance for me, and the situation has rumbled on too long. As for the vote - it has been removed because I do not think it was reflecting the actual number of visitors to the site. The number of votes increased by over 100, yet the number of visitors to the site increased by just over 50. The vote will be back if possible. There is certainly something amiss there, for example could 50 people have voted twice, or ten people have voted ten times and some not at all. It is of course possible that the counter for the number of visitors had malfunctioned. To complicate things further, the webpage host had a technical difficulty this afternoon and you are welcome to verify that fact. Everything detailed on the site is factual. There are no false allegations. I do not claim that rain water is "pouring in through my door" when it is in fact dripping in. There are other websites with similar names - an example is www.swiftmotorhome.co.uk - a company that deals with motorhome hire. This Kontiki is my first Swift product and it has not filled me with confidence. I also note PATR's comment about Swift phoning. The website was not the only thing discussed. I will repeat that one lady in particular at Swift seems to be doing all she can to assist, and I think on a majority rather than a minority of occasions she has returned my calls and emails etc. I feel the saga has gone on long enough and it needs bringing to a close as soon as possible. I have today learned I legally CAN reject the vehicle even though it is 54 weeks old. It may not be as easy in practice as on paper, and believe me, I do have a lot more to do than mess about with this. I hope this has cleared any points but should you wish to ask me anything, you ar welcome to send a message. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapide561 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Forgot to say, I have stated both to Swift and the dealer - I am willing to take on another Swift motorhome, if they have the confidence in the vehicle. Legally, my contract is with the dealer - I know that, and I find that fact incredible. Surely the manufacturer should take some responsibility. On the part of the dealer, they have refunded my costs incurred in Italy (parts and labour) and also refunded me the cost of the three journeys to and from their premises in May. Last week I was provided with a courtesy car whilst the door and camera were fitted. I, like many of you are aware of other people with problem products, whether it be a TV, car or motorhome, but this one, in my opinion seems to go from bad to worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 patr if i understand your last post correctly your main problem has been the after sales service you received, this is the real problem, things will go wrong, its the service we get when do that affects our satisfaction levels and your service appears to have been 0. someone quoted Mercedes as being poor, my brother in laws full time job is trying to improve there customer approval rating, it was appalling in this country, the reason crap dealers in britain.don,t leave keep complaining. i,ll finish on a good note,my wife had some of tescos contaminated petrol, claim went in cheque came back, result is we feel now feel good about tescos, even if they do own half of britain alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapide561 Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 bigal55 - 2007-06-22 7:30 PM patr if i understand your last post correctly your main problem has been the after sales service you received, this is the real problem, things will go wrong, its the service we get when do that affects our satisfaction levels and your service appears to have been 0. someone quoted Mercedes as being poor, my brother in laws full time job is trying to improve there customer approval rating, it was appalling in this country, the reason crap dealers in britain.don,t leave keep complaining. i,ll finish on a good note,my wife had some of tescos contaminated petrol, claim went in cheque came back, result is we feel now feel good about tescos, even if they do own half of britain alan Well at least there is someone else who is happy with Tesco. There was a problem with the fuel - I do not know the circumstance - but they acted with spped and did everything possible - paying for vehicle repairs etc etc. They did the decent thing. Maybe Tesco should sell motorhomes. I for one would buy from them, especially if I could pay by Tesco credit card and use my Clubcard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saruman Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 hi all that said would you buy from brownhills newark *-) mel? saruman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Er yes, But no single UK manufacturer makes one on a 6 tonne chassis with a garage big enough to take our two small motorbikes. The best kitchen however we thought was in the new Autotrail A class. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 chigman - 2007-06-22 4:24 PM put it this way...I haven`t a motorhome yet but after hearing about so many horror stories about brit manufacturers and thier couldn`t care less attitude I have gone and ordered a german van.Now I no this is no guarantee but does instill a bit of confidence because I only hear of the odd problem with german vans and plenty of people have them.Just hope I haven`t jinxed myself. (lol)Good on you. You did the right thing. The fact is that British manufacturers know the British have a high tolerance to mediocrity so get away with it. Whereas the Germans are the opposite, if it aint right they don't want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody. Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Im with you clive , ive had a few brits and theyve all been good , admitted theres been a silly problem a time or two but overall very good,my last 3 have been autotrails and theyve been superb .Ill always buy british . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Buy what you want, and what you will be happy with, just make sure you check out the van carefully and thoroughly to make sure it is of a quality you would be willing to accept, regardless of make, nationality etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hello all, Just playing the devils advocate here. Can anyone tell me of any new totally British Van available at present. Loads on Fiat, Peugeot, Renault, Mercedes etc., and loads with Truma, Alde, Bosch, Fiamma equipment. With that in mind it comes down to British Coachbuilding and Assembly and good quality control (PDI checks?). To my mind it is not where it is made or the percentage of customers satisfied or dissatisfied or even if I am the only one with a faulty vehicle, it is about the condition of the article supplied to ME but more importantly how the Dealer and/or Manufacturer respond to correcting the faults. I have a responsibility to ensure that I know what I want and, when it is supplied, check it out before parting with the hard earned. If, having done that to the best of my ability, the vehicle or any purchased item fails then I fully expect the dealer, shop, manufacturer or service agent to take ownership of the problem and get it resolved. I have a system, "Don't get angry, get it resolved" if that fails walk away and never use them again but make sure they know that is what you are doing. Years ago I attended a sales course part of which was about keeping customers "On-side. One unhappy customer tells someone else who tell someone else and very soon you are into the 1,2,4,8,16,32,64 syndrome". Maybe SOME of the dealers and manufacturers wherever they are need to learn this lesson. Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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