sidcup camper Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I am about to change my Auto Sleeper excelsior but all the vans that I like have diesel heating . Anybody have any long term knowledge of them regarding efficency and reliability and servicing intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Our new van has Webasto diesel heating as well as Truma blown air - the Webasto so far has been quiet, extremely efficient, and uses very little diesel even when running for hours. Spares and service - no idea and hope it doesn't prove necessary given the general shocking standard of service in the M/H industry at present. There are a few happy exceptions to the poor service rule though- depends on the dealer you end up with!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Diesel heaters are compact and thermally efficient. Ideal for lorry cabs, crane,s etc. But in my opinion not suitable for use in my motorhome. Why? Compared to a traditional Carver of Truma gas fired space heater the diesel heaters consume battery amps all the time they are running and consume lots of amps every time they start up. They are also noisy, especially more so outside. I have tried, I cannot sleep with one. So I sold the heater. Others will no doubt have differing opinions.??? Good luck with the quest C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmick Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Mr kent camper It all depends on how you are going to use your mortorhome. Give us some clues on the motorhome you are thinking of buying and how you are contemplating using it (uk or abroad, winter or summer, period of time etc) and we'll attempt a sensible reply. Take no notice of Clive, he's just a biased old codger! madmick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcup camper Posted June 23, 2007 Author Share Posted June 23, 2007 I am looking at Autosleeper Windsor. I like using c.l. and farm campsites with no electric hookup. How would the diesel heater perform over a period of about a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 For this kind of use not as well as a good old LPG combi. If you were moving on every day and circulating in places where LPG wasn't readily available, a diesel heater would be a good alternative. There is no advantage to having one for the use you describe, unless you are aiming for a fully gas-free 'van. If I ever tried to overland to the far reaches of the planet I'd get one. But only then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I really don't get it with diesel heaters. They're noisy, certainly louder than a gas fire, they're expensive to run, diesel is currently 90 plus pence per litre and LPG can be as cheap as 35 pence per litre and they eat battery amps like there's no tomorrow! I'll stick with me good old Truma 3000 series convector fire thanks. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I disagree completely. Our Webasto diesel heating is quiet, cheap to run, and extremely effective - much much better than the Truma system in our van (we have both, and this is our personal experience of both systems.) The Truma system is nowhere near as quick to heat up the van and I would personally always prefer to use diesel rather than gas. Truma heating running on electricity has seemed to me in our two vans to be nowhere near as effective as the Webasto, and switches itself down when it feels like it, which may not be when you want it to. So, we get it big time with diesel heaters - they have been brilliant for us and do exactly what they are meant to, in a most efficient way. Horses for courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Some of your comments about diesel heaters and eating amps are frightening me. I am getting a van with diesel heating. The plan is sometimes stay on sites with no electricity for up to 3 days and use the heating when necessary. We do not usually move the van once we stop on a site. Could there be a battery problem in such circumstances? Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Hi Colum, Diesel heaters have to have a fan running and a solenoid valve energised all the time they are running. Every time the unit is fired up (by the thermostat switching ON and OFF) an electrically powered glow plug is energised to heat the liquid diesel to a temperature at which it will ignite. It takes a lot of amps at 12 volts to do this, although it is not energised for that long. Because these diesel heaters (Eberspatcher or Webasto) are designed to be compact the fan speed to shift a reasonable quantity of air has to be quite fast. The fan motor normally drives two propellors. One to blow air into the burner unit and another the other side of the heat exchanger to blow air over the heat exchanger and into the van. The noise inside the van is mainly the noise of the fan unit blowing the air. The noise outside the van is both the noise of the fan plus the roar of the burner on top. If you always use a mains hookup then the 12 volt requirements of these heaters will not be a problem. If however you want to wild camp for several days on the trot, especially in the winter when you will need to use your heater more regularly then you will need to have a second or even a third leisure battery connected in parallel to ensure you can last this long. Unless you have totally removed the need for gas in the van I see little advantage in diesel heaters. The Truma or Carver gas heaters will operate without any 12 volts whatsoever although many have an optional large diameter fan that can be used to waft the warm air around the van via some ducting if required. The disadvantage of Truma or Carver heaters is that they take up more space inside the van. Having said all that modern motorhomes have systems that have increasing reliance on the 12 volt leisure battery so chosing a van suitable for long term wild camping is not so easy. To my mind having a van that can provide warmth for the occupants and warm water to wash in without needing a 12 volt battery supply is not that difficult. Truma / Carver space heater and a flash boiler for the water being the ideal. (Like Dave,s van) Once these two basic requirements are met then the remaining loading on any 12 volt battery need only be minimal for lights etc. especially if you use LED lighting. Think on! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 caradoc - 2007-06-23 10:46 PM I disagree completely. Our Webasto diesel heating is quiet, cheap to run, and extremely effective - much much better than the Truma system in our van (we have both, and this is our personal experience of both systems.) The Truma system is nowhere near as quick to heat up the van and I would personally always prefer to use diesel rather than gas. Truma heating running on electricity has seemed to me in our two vans to be nowhere near as effective as the Webasto, and switches itself down when it feels like it, which may not be when you want it to. So, we get it big time with diesel heaters - they have been brilliant for us and do exactly what they are meant to, in a most efficient way. Horses for courses. LaurieIt might help to clarify things a bit if you could be more specific. What kind of Webasto unit have you, and what kind of Truma (Truma's after all come in a variety of flavours, including the Combi units I think Clive is excluding from his comments)? Have you assessed the noise of your Webasto unit outside your van? This is known to be a major annoyance to tenters/trailer tenters in the vicinity. Do you do a lot of winter camping? Is that why you installed the Webasto in addition to the Truma? Which is the Truma system you run on electricity? (I assume you must be more or less permanently on hook-up to be able to use electricity for heating.) Is this the Truma Combi 6002EH, or a Trumatic S with the optional electric Ultraheat? If the latter, I think you may be comparing apples and pears. The electric Ultraheat is merely an electric "convector" type heater designed to take the chill off a cool evening, whereas the Webasto units would compare more directly with the Truma Combi blown air heaters, which deliver their heat in a similar fashion.This is likely to have some bearing on your experience of these heaters, and also on the relevance of your reply to the original query. It may also explain why you are in disagreement with the other posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Clive - 2007-06-23 11:43 PM If you always use a mains hookup then the 12 volt requirements of these heaters will not be a problem. If you always use a mains hookup then all these things are a waste of money. I full-timed through last winter, on hookup every night, and stayed as warm as toast using a 2kw fan heater of the sort you can buy in any High St electrical shop for £10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcup camper Posted June 24, 2007 Author Share Posted June 24, 2007 Any Auto Sleeper Windsor owners about to give a general view of the van and if they are happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 If you do use hookup and a fan heater, you can soon put it on one of these plug in timers so that it comes on and switches off when you want - if you're out and about you'll then return to a nice toastie van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Bill and Mell are both spot on. I also have a cheap electric fan heater stored under a seat for use should we ever need it. Sometimes one cannot see the wood for the trees! Gas or electric then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Clive ... I think you'll find most trees are made wood! Not electric or gas :-D On the subject of heaters, I must admit that I'm not a fan of the ceramic swivelling things, that were all the rage a year or 2 back, I've got one (cheap form a car boot) which I have currently nicely scorching my left leg, but the rest of me is cold. Not much use in a motorhome, you simply can't beat a good fan heater (with a thermostat of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted June 24, 2007 Share Posted June 24, 2007 Hi Brian, To clarify - we have an Adria Vision 707SG, intend using it a lot in winter hence the extra Webasto, not sure of the exact Webasto model as the books are in the van, the Truma I think is a 6002 - boiler plus blown air on electric, or gas, or a combination of both. We hook up all the time unless circumstances force otherwise, also carry suitcase silent gennie. Have listened outside our van to see if anyone would be worried by the Webasto and could honestly not hear it at all on the next door site, and only a slight hum when really close to the front of the van. I think the units have improved over time and are not all noisy and likely to use up loads of diesel. Ours uses so little diesel I can't see the tank indicator move after hours of use. Its also incredibly effective - much more so than the Truma on electricity, and doesn't use gas (expensive - but Truma is effective on gas admittedly). Cheap on diesel as far as I can see. If we are caught in a really cold spell over the channel sometime, with poor electricity feed (continental supplies may not cope with electric heaters all that well) then at least we won't freeze!!! Like I said, what's good for us may not suit others, but in our own experience the Webasto unit has been excellent so far and the Truma unit has been used for its boiler, not for heating. We have the fall-back supply of the heating function on the Waeco airconditioner as well, so our van should be ok in all seasons......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icelander Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Plus servicing costs on the Eberspaker! Not all motorhome service centres will be able to service them. We were quoted over £70 a year by a Eberspaker agent (excuse the spelling he he *-)) if we took the van to him to have it serviced - 2 years ago. New van now and no battery draining, noisey, smelly diesel heater in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 From what you say, Laurie, I do wonder if your Truma is working correctly. Trouble is, one needs to know which C 6002 unit it is.I think there are (or have been) three variants, the basic C 6002, which is a gas only space/water heater, with three stage outputs of 2kW, 4kW and 6kW. Then there is the C 6002 EL, which is as above, but adds a 450W electric element for water heating only. Finally there is the C 6002 EH, which adds two stage electric heating outputs of 900W and 1.8kW. This can be used on electricity only for water/space heating to a max 1.8kW, on gas only for water/space heating to a max of 6kW, or on both gas and electricity to a max of 7.8kW for rapid heat up. Thus, if yours is the C 6002 EH, on hook-up, you should be getting almost the equivalent of a 2kW fan heater output, thermostatically controlled. The latter should mean that it doesn't switch down when you don't want it to, and should be adequate for cool, "shoulder season" evenings. So, if it doesn't switch down on 6kW of gas, but it does on 1.8kW of electricity, I think summat's duff!If so, because this unit is a bit complex - provided you're sure it is a C 6002 EH - why not take it down to Truma in Derbyshire? They now have a service bay with full diagnostics. After all, you've paid for the heater, and if you're paying for the hook-up anyway, 2kW of electric heat is cheaper that any amount of diesel, no matter how frugally it is burnt!On noise, I have seen there are some new silencers for the Webasto units, so maybe yours has one of these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Clive, Thank you for a very detailed reply. I am stuck with a diesel heater as it is a Duetto I have ordered and it comes with the heater as part of the package even if it now looks like it is going to be of limited use. I will look into the possibility of getting a second leisure battery once I have used the van a little, Thank. Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Brian, I think it may be an EH variant, will check. The Webasto I think has a silencer. It is also not smelly as noted by another poster, but I think diesel heating has improved somewhat. The Truma heating works ok, I just think the Webasto is faster to heat up and seems more reliable in heating the van. Luckily Truma is close to us, as you say, and I may check it out with them if uncertain. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 icelander - 2007-06-25 8:13 AM Plus servicing costs on the Eberspaker! Not all motorhome service centres will be able to service them. We were quoted over £70 a year by a Eberspaker agent (excuse the spelling he he *-)) if we took the van to him to have it serviced - 2 years ago. New van now and no battery draining, noisey, smelly diesel heater in this one. What servicing costs (?) Had ours for four years now and it's never been serviced and gets above average use every winter. Ours is noisy, does not drain the battery and is not smelly, all in all a very nice heater, well we think so. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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