trooper Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 the new 160 fiat is brilliant and it has chain driven cam (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I think we ought to bear in mind that Amesporting specifically asked about the relative merits(or otherwise) of these two manufacturers engines. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I had a merc 316 based m/h, I thought this was good, then changed for a fiat 2.8 powered m/h, this was very smooth and the gears worked better than the merc, I have just got a fiat based m/h with themultijet160 engine plus 6 speed box , this is a superb puller and used less fuel than our friends a class with 2.8 engine even though it was brand new and heavier, this was touring france, ps we had to leave early due to personal problems at home ,we done 712 miles mostly at 70 mph, and got 22 mph , it takes some beeting, : is that more to the point $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I have got to agree with you Trooper. We have just come back from our first "loaded" trip with the new 'van - a 5.2 tonne Frankia with the Fiat 160 lump. What a pleasure to drive! The engine is really smooth and the power from take off and when you need a little more oomph (technical word) is knock out. I had expected that, with 6 gears, there would be a lot more cog swapping to do but with the extra power it toddled along nicely in top. The only problem was holding it back to the legal speed limit! I have not bothered to check the mpg - It is difficult to be accurate and I have usually found that untill the engine has a few miles on the clock it can be discouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 However, much of this is unhelpful comparison. To be useful it is surely necessary to compare only engines of similar generations. Comparing a 2007 Fiat engine with a 1990s Mercedes tells us nothing. Nor, in truth, does the debate about cambelts versus timing chains. Old cambelts are just that, cambelts formulated and made several years ago. New cambelts should be better, because they benefit from advances in synthetic rubber formulation, reinforcement formulation and production technology. Renolds chains are well tried and tested, and metallurgy and lubrication techniques have improved with time, but I somehow suspect they are less capable of development now than the cambelt. Still, if Mercedes are now adopting cambelts on their smaller engines, it may tell us something.Be that as it may, what the questioner presumably wanted to know is how do the current generations of Fiat and Mercedes engines compare. I suppose the true answer to that must be that the jury is still out. It will be a few years yet before anyone can say with certainty. One thing that has interested me, is that Mercedes seem happy to squeeze a few more HP from each engine litre than most of the others, yet the engines seem to survive. I suspect this may give us a clue. They make a slightly higher tuned engine to a slightly higher engineering standard whereas, to preserve their engines, the others make them to a lower engineered standard but ask less of them. The net result, I suspect, is approximate parity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icelander Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 OK if anyone is undecided then.... in the end the Italians helped us out in WW2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 icelander - 2007-07-01 1:36 PM OK if anyone is undecided then.... in the end the Italians helped us out in WW2 And Fiat have just come 1st and 2nd in the French Grand Prix! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Vernon B - 2007-07-01 3:41 PM icelander - 2007-07-01 1:36 PM OK if anyone is undecided then.... in the end the Italians helped us out in WW2 And Fiat have just come 1st and 2nd in the French Grand Prix! Yes but our lad's driving the Merc! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Vernon B - 2007-07-01 3:41 PM icelander - 2007-07-01 1:36 PM OK if anyone is undecided then.... in the end the Italians helped us out in WW2 And Fiat have just come 1st and 2nd in the French Grand Prix!Only because Ron Dennis decided to put Lewis Hamilton on a 3 stopper - Hindsight is wonderful..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hi, Its strange how people try to associate the Prestige car which gave Mercedes its name and brand position with a Van ?? It makes you wonder why the same people don't try and associate Ferrari's with the Van's they make?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 And the Italians were only on our side for part of the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 enodreven - 2007-07-01 7:33 PM Hi, Its strange how people try to associate the Prestige car which gave Mercedes its name and brand position with a Van ?? It makes you wonder why the same people don't try and associate Ferrari's with the Van's they make?? You mean apart from the fact that Ferraris are notoriously unreliable and therefore break down a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 enodreven - 2007-07-01 7:33 PM Hi, Its strange how people try to associate the Prestige car which gave Mercedes its name and brand position with a Van ?? It makes you wonder why the same people don't try and associate Ferrari's with the Van's they make?? Ferrari - Fiat, doesn't really roll off the tongue does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 I've got a Fiat van and a Merc Car and I'm happy with both of them. What difference does the name make if you are enjoying yourself? I've also got a Jinlun scooter which is Chinese, great fun, will do 50mph with 2 up down hill & 25mph uphill and cost less than £800 brand new! (Don't know whose side the Chinese were on in WW2) It's all down to personal choice-and price of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 enodreven - 2007-07-01 7:33 PM Hi, Its strange how people try to associate the Prestige car which gave Mercedes its name and brand position with a Van ?? It makes you wonder why the same people don't try and associate Ferrari's with the Van's they make?? I don't get to watch much TV at present, but even I've seen the ad where Shochmaker drives a Fiat van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Brian Kirby - 2007-07-01 11:48 AM Nor, in truth, does the debate about cambelts versus timing chains. Old cambelts are just that, cambelts formulated and made several years ago. New cambelts should be better, because they benefit from advances in synthetic rubber formulation, reinforcement formulation and production technology. Renolds chains are well tried and tested, and metallurgy and lubrication techniques have improved with time, but I somehow suspect they are less capable of development now than the cambelt. Still, if Mercedes are now adopting cambelts on their smaller engines, it may tell us something Sorry to go raking over this again, but my first recollection of belt drives was the BDA engine, famously promoted by ford(ok they didn't make them) look under the bonnet of any new Mondeo or most of the Focus range, no belts to be seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hi, Dave I will swap a Mercedes Van for a Ferrari any time who cares about the breakdowns ITS A FERRARI, LoL I'd rather br Shomacker ?? than white van man ? LoL davenewell@home - 2007-07-01 8:17 PM enodreven - 2007-07-01 7:33 PM Hi, Its strange how people try to associate the Prestige car which gave Mercedes its name and brand position with a Van ?? It makes you wonder why the same people don't try and associate Ferrari's with the Van's they make?? You mean apart from the fact that Ferraris are notoriously unreliable and therefore break down a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Bry Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Vernon B - 2007-07-01 3:41 PM icelander - 2007-07-01 1:36 PM And Fiat have just come 1st and 2nd in the French Grand Prix! And what does fiat stand for!!!!Fix It Again Tomorrow!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 enodreven - 2007-07-01 9:03 PM I will swap a Mercedes Van for a Ferrari any time who cares about the breakdowns ITS A FERRARI, LoL I'd rather br Shomacker ?? than white van man ? LoL Maybe I'm showing my age but I prefer the van (lol) or could it be because there's only one Ferrari can beat a similair specced car than mine around Top Gear track, and I also know someone with three Ferrari's who use's them when 'on the pull' and it's cost him dear. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icelander Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Thai Bry nothing to do with the engine so sorry - however there is some truth in M Must E Expect R Rusty C Components E Especially D Doors E Even S Sills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Bry Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 IcelanderNever seen a rusty M/Home yet, no matter what make or how old it is. I think that it's down to personal taste really. As I've said in an earlier posting in this thread, I've had both a Fiat and Peugot as base vehicles and have been happy with them both.Thai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hi, icelander Never heard that one before icelander - 2007-07-02 11:44 AM Thai Bry nothing to do with the engine so sorry - however there is some truth in M Must E Expect R Rusty C Components E Especially D Doors E Even S Sills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Clive is thinking of buying the IVECO but does he know what Ivceo means. I I V Vibrate E Eventually C Coming O Off 8-) 8-) 8-) Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Bry Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Don Madge - 2007-07-02 4:00 PM Clive is thinking of buying the IVECO but does he know what Ivceo means. I I V Vibrate E Eventually C Coming O Off 8-) 8-) 8-) Don DonHope nobody has a Lotus based van!!Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious.!!Thai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hi, For some of the older ones the BSA motorbike B bit S stuck A anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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