MH1 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Having followed various threads about dealer customer care or lack of it at times, I thought I should share my experiences to try and redress some balance, particularly about the Brownhills Group and Hymer Uk in particular. Bought our new motorhome last Sept from Hymer UK. Very pleased apart from the discovery of some paint defects in the metallic finish. This turned into a major problem which resulted in lengthy rectification work involving two resprays! I will not bore you all with the details, but it was very stressful and time consuming for all. However at all times Hymer UK never once shirked from their responsibilities as the supplying dealer from rectifying these issues. The people were helpful and very focussed on solving the problems and in the end despite issues and time delays a win win was created for everyone. I highly recommend them as a dealer. I have to say I have thought many times about importing a van to save money ( this is our 3rd van in 8 years ) but this experience has certainly told me that I personnaly did the right thing buying in the UK. I really would not have liked to have been having the indepth discussions with an overseas dealer that I had to have with Hymer UK. Discussing the complexity of original paint finishes and subsequent resprays could have proven very difficult elsewhere. Also if it had gone legal ( which thankfully it didn't and never came that close to doing ) I would have been much more comfortable in the UK courts. I also would like to endorse advice given by others about handling dealers: 1) At all times stay calm. Focussed sensible emotion is okay though. Verbally abusing people is not! 2) Stay focussed on the issues. Dont get side tracked 3) Put things in writing to avoid any unintentional misunderstandings from all sides. 4) Be very clear of what you want. However always strive to create a win win for all parties. 5) If seeking gestures of goodwill for inconvenience etc try to look for things that are high value to you as the customer but that are relatively low cost to the dealership. Hard cash is not a win win! 6) Lastly if you do get good service please write and tell them, naming the people who really impressed you. The people in customer care probably have one of the toughest jobs going. How would you like to be dealing with problems and issues constantly? They really appreciate knowing when they do a good job, even if during the actual process emotions and patience has been tested sometimes to extreme limits. Now just looking forward to getting out there and enjoying the van again Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Hi, Mark Great to hear that not all UK dealers are bad and that you have had all of your problems resolved. Its also worth noting that non British manufacturers have serious build problems also. It really does seem that if you get a good responsive dealer it really doesn't matter where the vehicle has been made as most things can be rectified Mark Hope - 2007-06-28 9:36 AM Having followed various threads about dealer customer care or lack of it at times, I thought I should share my experiences to try and redress some balance, particularly about the Brownhills Group and Hymer Uk in particular. Bought our new motorhome last Sept from Hymer UK. Very pleased apart from the discovery of some paint defects in the metallic finish. This turned into a major problem which resulted in lengthy rectification work involving two resprays! I will not bore you all with the details, but it was very stressful and time consuming for all. However at all times Hymer UK never once shirked from their responsibilities as the supplying dealer from rectifying these issues. The people were helpful and very focussed on solving the problems and in the end despite issues and time delays a win win was created for everyone. I highly recommend them as a dealer. I have to say I have thought many times about importing a van to save money ( this is our 3rd van in 8 years ) but this experience has certainly told me that I personnaly did the right thing buying in the UK. I really would not have liked to have been having the indepth discussions with an overseas dealer that I had to have with Hymer UK. Discussing the complexity of original paint finishes and subsequent resprays could have proven very difficult elsewhere. Also if it had gone legal ( which thankfully it didn't and never came that close to doing ) I would have been much more comfortable in the UK courts. I also would like to endorse advice given by others about handling dealers: 1) At all times stay calm. Focussed sensible emotion is okay though. Verbally abusing people is not! 2) Stay focussed on the issues. Dont get side tracked 3) Put things in writing to avoid any unintentional misunderstandings from all sides. 4) Be very clear of what you want. However always strive to create a win win for all parties. 5) If seeking gestures of goodwill for inconvenience etc try to look for things that are high value to you as the customer but that are relatively low cost to the dealership. Hard cash is not a win win! 6) Lastly if you do get good service please write and tell them, naming the people who really impressed you. The people in customer care probably have one of the toughest jobs going. How would you like to be dealing with problems and issues constantly? They really appreciate knowing when they do a good job, even if during the actual process emotions and patience has been tested sometimes to extreme limits. Now just looking forward to getting out there and enjoying the van again Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Mmm... What difference does it make to a warranty claim if vehicle is purchased in England or Germany may I ask? Listening to Brownhills spin are we? If van buillt in Europe the warranty is European wide. it’s amazing what lengths UK dealers will go to justify there massive mark up - and exploiting UK buyers to the limit... Hymer UK - give us a break! save a bundle and buy elsewhere . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH1 Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 Not listening to any spin from anyone, so please don't insult my intelligence. Also just happen to know a little about customer service having spent last 15 years consulting and training on it with my own business. Therefore I am perfectly capable of judging exceptional, good, bad and appalling service, and commenting on it from a detached perspective, without listening to any spin! In fact I am probably a tougher customer than most to deal with. Trust me Hymer UK did not get an easy ride! Just giving my own informed opinion based on my own experience, so that people can then use info as they see fit. You are right a warranty claim is a warranty claim but not always as clear cut as it may seem. My own issues at times could have been very dificult to communicate elsewhere. Not impossible but messages get lost easily in translation/mental absorption as my experience in working overseas with many different nationalities has shown. Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Mark, pardon my well honed cynicism - but you should not be surprised by this reception. Because if you look through various Forums you will/must have seen the legions of dissatisfied UK costumers feed up with being overcharged and poorly looked after? I saved over £12000 not buying from them. and happy to return to Belgian dealer when need be (5 hours door to door via tunnel) where I receive excellent service. but I can always get work done here and claim money back subject to main dealer approval. So can anyone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH1 Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 Hi judgemental As a first time new user I'm glad that I seem to have grabbed your attention, and as you can probably tell your response about listening to spin has annoyed me slightly. Just to reinforce my point about messages being lost in translation I quote you from your post of 16th June, under Buying from European dealers. "My point is: be careful ordering over the phone as it may appear dealer speaks excellent english but may still be struggling to fully understand your needs." I could not have said it better myself :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 There you go Mark - you have confirmed my suspicions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH1 Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 and your suspicions are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will redfearn Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Now Now calm down (lol) *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasnelgrove Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I guess sometimes Hymer are good but this was not our experience. We had a leaking windscreen and travelled a long way to Hymer in Preston. I had assurances before going that the entire seal would be replaced. This didn't happen but instead some black sealant was put in one one side only and if anything this made it worse. They still insisted that the seal had been changed - I know it wasn't as same marks were there. Eventually fixed by Autoglass who did an excellent job. Also the overnight facilities and general appearance seriously need to be improved in Preston as many people will need this service. It would not cost much and make such a difference to the experience. After all we are paying a lot for these vehicles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Autoglass, Well there you go! we would never use them again based on our experience. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasnelgrove Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I think it depends on the branch. Place in Oban we used where they were very helpful indeed. Used to doing buses and I think this was useful when dealing with a Hymer..... John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH1 Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 Sorry to hear of your problems but glad they are sorted. Did you write to complain? As well as giving praise ( as I could in my case ) I think dealers also need to hear "balanced" negative feedback as well. When complaining my personal thoughts are : 1) Keep it factual and to the point. Avoid emotional statements but do include info on inconvenience etc being caused. 2) Back up any claims/points with documentary evidence (photos, independent reports etc) 3) Persevere and escalate the issue to senior managers when appropriate. My experiences tell me not to escalate straight away but give the people at least two "fair" chances to sort it out. After that no problem with escalating. 4) I personnally would always go legal as a last resort, but don't be frightened of using the courts if needed. However make sure you have documented everything and genuinely have a case. Sometimes its just not worth the agro. My advice then is to tell other people honestly and openly in a factual way about your dissatisfaction, so thye can make their own judgement as to whether they decide to do business with that company. However again I make a plea here, also tell people the good news. There is alot of it out there! Also if thinking about going legal on a big claim, check whether you have any legal protection insurance to cover any legal costs you might incur ( not all policies cover vehicle claims ). Losing can be expensive! Although I understand the small claims court can be useful for smaller claims. Look it up on the web, or seek advice from the experts. Totally agree with your points about Hymer UK needing to smarten up their image at the Preston site. As you say it would not cost much. Surprised personnally that they haven't done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasnelgrove Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Yes Mark, I agree with the points you make. I'm involved in customer support every day and I know how I would like people to behave! I think what made the situation worse with us was that we had taken three days off and travelled several hundred miles to get it fixed. Certainly it was not Hymer's fault that I lived so far away. But I had tried my best beforehand to ensure they knew what the job involved. At the end of the day, after many polite comminications they contributed something towards the fuel and they arranged to get it repaired locally to me. My dissapointment with Hymer was that whole trip and experience at their end with the work carried out and the place itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Bry Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Good and not bad from Hymer uk in the past with our own experiences. Shop front has not really changed much since it was the original "Maddison" showroom.!! Best if you stay on top with any probs and get it all noted. Follow standard procedures and staying calm also helps.Thai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 jasnelgrove - 2007-06-28 1:08 PM Yes Mark, I agree with the points you make. I'm involved in customer support every day and I know how I would like people to behave! I think what made the situation worse with us was that we had taken three days off and travelled several hundred miles to get it fixed. Certainly it was not Hymer's fault that I lived so far away. But I had tried my best beforehand to ensure they knew what the job involved. At the end of the day, after many polite comminications they contributed something towards the fuel and they arranged to get it repaired locally to me. My dissapointment with Hymer was that whole trip and experience at their end with the work carried out and the place itself. The problem here is one of expectations. Before Hymer UK had seen the site of the leakage, they would have been basing their judgement about what needed doing on assumptions. When the van arrived, they would have been able to look and then make an assessment based upon a) what they could see and b) what Hymer would reimburse. If Hymer will not reimburse windscreen replacement until re-sealing the screen has been attempted, that is what will happen. It is to be noted that the full removal and replacement was eventually carried out, albeit at considerable inconvenience to you. This should have been made clear to you from the outset and, to me, that is where the poor service element lies. However, even though it was inconvenient for you, they did meet their obligations, and compensated you for some of your out of pocket expenses. Full reimbursement would, of course, have been ideal!I think Eddie is placing a bit too much faith in pan-European motorhome warranties. I understand it is generally difficult to get warranty work carried out by a dealer who did not sell you the van, whether in UK or elsewhere. The standard gripe is that the manufacturer does not reimburse the dealer for the full cost to him of the work he does. This is mainly because dealers want the full market labour rate to be reimbursed, whereas the manufacturers tend to write into their dealership agreements that they will reimburse actuals, but not the oncost for notional profit. Thus, the argument goes, the repair loss has to come from the sale profit. No sale profit = no repair here!Under these circumstances, if you want warranty work carried out, and the dealer is reluctant, drags his feet, or outright refuses, what, actually, are you going to do? So far as I know, unless there has been a recent change to the law, the warranty terms are specifically stated to be in addition to your statutory/legal rights, and are no more than an extra-contractual offer from the manufacturer. For legal enforcement, therefore, you have to go back to the selling dealer, with whom you have a contract. In the case of the Hymer paint, that would have meant back to the dealer where it was bought had it been imported. It would be nice to think a French or German dealership would respond constructively, but they could not be expected to do more, or do things at greater cost, because the customer was British. However, having saved money by importing, the buyer should really set his higher costs to remedy against his prevoius savings. Personally, even allowing for the cost of additional trips to and from, say, Germany, I still think the importer would come out comfortably on top financially. Nevertheless, this is a risk to be taken into account when calculating the benefits of importing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasnelgrove Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Yes, good summary Brian. I think you had to see the sealant repair job to appreciate how bad it was. Only sealed on one side - against the glass - with a huge wet area under the seal to the body. I can't think why any repair person would think it fit to leave a bulging lump of sealant arround the screen of a van not yet a year old... Reminded my of my A55 van many years ago.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH1 Posted June 28, 2007 Author Share Posted June 28, 2007 Brian, like John I agree an excellent summary. I think this is where this forum is superb, in that people can give balanced views, so that others can consider and take appropriate actions/decisions. Things always have to be considered from all angles. Looking forward to contributing further wherever appropriate. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventoux Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Hymer UK at preston? ....... Charged me £28 for plastic fuel cap ..... for a 1989 model. The rent on that parts-shelf must be higher than Knightsbridge :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Hi, What I find really interesting in the post is the fact that quiet a number of Hymers appear to have problems but there owners generally appear to keep this to themselves, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH1 Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 That's a really interesting point. Like all vans/vehicles/products I am certain that they have teething problems sometimes. Do they have less, more? Do their owners keep quiet, or are problems fixed reasonably efficiently thus not leading to angry posts? ( It is a well known fact that customers in general complain much much more about poor service than bad service. ) Also as many seem to say on this forum for some reason German makes may have less problems. Has anyone done a proper scientific study, rather than just hearsay? In my case the paint issue (not a minor teething problem!) was not initially that obvious as it was a small shade problem in the top area of one side that was hard to see in all lights. A problem that can happen with metallics sometimes so friends in the automotive industry tell me. However as I am happy to say, fixed without quibble, and at really considerable cost to Hymer. Paints are no longer cheap these days like they were in the good old cellulose days! Plus the labour etc. Ouch! And the poor paint sprayer made a couple of mistakes and they made him do it again! Only other minor problem I have really had in 9 months were seitz blinds that developed spots ( all replaced immediately under warranty ). Although I quite liked the pattern! Apparently a known Seitz problem which other vans may/will/have suffered? Apart from that nothing. Damm, I bet I've gone and tempted fate now! Well if it going to break it had better do it in the next 3 months! Having said that we have spent over 120 nights in it so far so it has had a good test. There I go again tempting fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MH1 Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 oops, that should read " customers in general complain much much more about poor/bad service rather than taking time to talk about good service". sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 enodreven - 2007-06-29 8:39 PM Hi, What I find really interesting in the post is the fact that quiet a number of Hymers appear to have problems but there owners generally appear to keep this to themselves, Probably a bit of "badge snobbery". Similar to owners of Mercedes and BMW cars - never come top of the JD Power surveys but the owners of the "Star" or the "Ultimate Driving Machine" badge don't want others to think that they have problems.Only difference is that they pay for service and repairs plus around 30% for the badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Hi, Mark I certainly don't think its only Hymers, my point is more that UK manufacturers seem to be getting lambasted and it also seems that its only disgruntled UK manufactured owners who want to air their dirty washing in public. It seems that to find problems with non UK manufactured vehicles you have to read all of the threads very carefully as while they are not hidden that do become very difficult to detect. One example, someone joined in on another thread recently that was about a UK manufacturer saying that they were having problems with there non UK manufactured motorhome, they did mention the make but my point is more that it probably got hidden or at least the sting was taken out of it as it was obscured within the mass of replies that were posted onto the orginal thread, another example was another thread asking for help with sealing a leaking roof and it took 2 or 3 posts to actually find the make of vehicle on which the roof needed resealing, needless to say that was a non UK vehicle, I am not saying that either stance is right or wrong and I am certainly not saying that these people were trying to hide anything, but in my opinion it does seem a lot of the problems no matter who makes the vehicle hinge on the dealer ability to affect quality repairs quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hi, Umhh who is the belgian dealer, we are thinking re changing ours and want to go to germany/belgium for the new skylark mavis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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