Mobilvetta Fuel filler issue

[GeoffC]

I own a 2020 Mobilvetta K-Yacht79 (built 2019) - purchased new in New Zealand and driven 31,000km on tarsealed roads.

It has developed a fuel leak from the fuel filler pipe (running from fuel entry point on exterior body down to the fuel tank via a fixed & flexible pipe arrangement. I have been told the flexible pipe has a crack in it, but as it is "fused" to the fibreglass bodywork, rather than a separate attachment. Fixing the leak is a major job, involving cutting the bodywork to remove the entire hose (solid and flexible pipes). Has anyone else struck this problem? Very concerned about playing with the exterior bodywork, but reliant on the expert advise of the Fiat franchise technician at this stage (who's very good by the way).  

[Derek Uzzell]

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Geoff.

Mobilvetta motorhomes have always been quite rare in the UK and (hopefully) the problem with your vehicle is not a common issue.

I think the position of a K-Yacht 79's fuel-filler is as arrowed in red on this image

and - if that's the case - it seems 100% credible that the advice you have been given by the Fiat technician is correct and that the task to fix the problem will not be a simple matter.

The connection between the external fuel-filling point and the fuel tank will have been made when the vehicle's  Fiat chassis was converted by Mobilvetta into a motorhome and the method used will not have followed Fiat's standard practice.

Have you contacted the NZ Mobilvetta agency (TraiLite Group?) about this? It may be that your motorhome's problem is not a one-off and the Mobilvetta factory could suggest the best way forward - for example, whether it would be practicable to effect an 'invisible' repair by removing part of the adjacent locker's interior to gain access to the filler pipework.

[simians]

Bearing in mind not having sighted the innards of your 'van; 

But would it not be possible to cut along the length of the  existing pipe as close to the fibreglass body so as not to unnecessarily damage it, and running the replacement along the cut length. Then cut out the existing fuel filler with a hole saw to allow a new filler possibly with oversize flange to be fitted. Perhaps it would be helpful to approach a yacht repair outfit for advice, I doubt a FIAT agent would have the expertise to recommend alternatives to a problem more associated with so called coachwork repairs I feel.

Having lived in NZ, nearly 20 years, I'm aware of the can do attitude as pervades there, I doubt you'll have much trouble getting it fixed. 👍 

[mtravel]

1 hour ago, Derek Uzzell said:

Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Geoff.

Mobilvetta motorhomes have always been quite rare in the UK and (hopefully) the problem with your vehicle is not a common issue.

I think the position of a K-Yacht 79's fuel-filler is as arrowed in red on this image

and - if that's the case - it seems 100% credible that the advice you have been given by the Fiat technician is correct and that the task to fix the problem will not be a simple matter.

The connection between the external fuel-filling point and the fuel tank will have been made when the vehicle's  Fiat chassis was converted by Mobilvetta into a motorhome and the method used will not have followed Fiat's standard practice.

Have you contacted the NZ Mobilvetta agency (TraiLite Group?) about this? It may be that your motorhome's problem is not a one-off and the Mobilvetta factory could suggest the best way forward - for example, whether it would be practicable to effect an 'invisible' repair by removing part of the adjacent locker's interior to gain access to the filler pipework.

I think the filler cap you posted is for water.

A similar one, a little further on should be the one for fuel and (the vehicle is from 2020) Ad Blue.

Inside I think it's all original Fiat.

[Derek Uzzell]

You may be correct, but the following two images were taken from a UK advert for a right-hand-drive 2019 K-Yacht 79

 

and I can't see anything on either side that looks more likely to be a fuel-filling point than the thing I arrowed.

As the fuel-filler for Ducato-based motorhomes that retain the original metal cab have the fuel-filler just to the rear of the left cab door, that's the area where I'd expect the filler to be on an A-class model.

This YouTube video relates to a 2020 RHD K-Yacht 79

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVbVCENXdoo

and whatever the thing is to the left of the frontmost locker on the vehicle's left-hand side it seems to have 'grown' in size (perhaps because the 2020 version needs AdBlue).

Anyway, I'm sure Geoff can confirm where the filler is on his Mobilvetta...

[Derek Uzzell]

This video may be of interest

https://knowledge.traillite.co.nz/en/knowledge/lesson-twelve-diesel-and-ad-blue-mobilvetta

[Brian Kirby]

6 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

.............................................

Have you contacted the NZ Mobilvetta agency (TraiLite Group?) about this? It may be that your motorhome's problem is not a one-off and the Mobilvetta factory could suggest the best way forward - for example, whether it would be practicable to effect an 'invisible' repair by removing part of the adjacent locker's interior to gain access to the filler pipework.

According to Mobilvetta's English language website, there are two warranties, one for 2 years for their bodyshell and fit-out, and another, for 10 years, against water ingress.  As the fuel filler extension is not original Fiat, but is a Mobilvetta adaptation, I wonder if Mobilvetta would at least countenance making a contribution to the cost of repair?

This is a quite fundamental failure, with safety implications, and is apparently a direct consequence of Mobilvetta's design and construction execution.  Should the existing failure not be rectified, I assume the continuing use of the vehicle on public roads is of questionable legality.

I strongly agree with Derek that the selling dealer should be taking responsibility, and at the very least be providing support by seeking guidance from Mobilvetta.

What is the state of NZ consumer legislation?  In UK (as you probably know) the seller is legally responsible for the "merchantable quality" of what they sell, and, if the goods fail to retain that quality over a reasonable timescale (reasonableness being determined in relationship to normal expectations for goods of broadly similar type), it is the dealer's legal responsibility to repair or replace the goods, or to reimburse the buyer all, or a (if necessary, legally determined) proportion of, the purchase price.

I'm not suggesting you rush off and start a legal battle with the seller, but I would have thought this problem is sufficiently serious that some legal advice as to exactly where you stand vis-a-vis Mobilvetta and the seller might be useful.  Does NZ have Citizens' Advice, or similar, for example, where you can obtain general information as to where the parties stand with respect to their obligations to you, and what you are reasonably entitled to expect, and how to proceed without prejudicing your interests?

Again under UK legislation, a manufacturer's warranty has virtually no legal force, being merely a (usually) non-contractual "promise" that the warrantor will repair defects which arise within a fixed time after purchase, but only to the extent and under the circumstances set out in the warranty.  Consumer legislation, OTOH, basically overrules the warranty terms and conditions, and makes the seller primarily responsible.

It is then for the seller to recover whatever of his costs he can from the manufacturer, whether or not via the warranty.  Even if the defect is held to be due to poor design or execution by the manufacturer, or if the manufacturer refuses to make good the defect in whole or in part, or refuses to contribute in any way toward the seller's losses, it remains the seller who has legal liability to the buyer.

Please don't take the above as legal advice; it is not - and I'm certainly not claiming knowledge of NZ law or practice.  It is my ley understanding of a legal framework that, broadly, and much over-simplified, should apply to someone in your position in UK.  In view of the historic ties between UK and NZ it seems likely that a similar framework supporting consumer protection might exist in NZ.  I hope it does.  Good luck.

[Hans]

YES IT IS COMMON PROBLEM OF INTEGRAL MOTORHOMES, to CONNECT A PROPER FUEL LINE TO THE TANK OF THE BASE VEHIICLE bAD CONNECTIONS.

[GeoffC]

Thanks all for your feedback & ideas. The fuel filler cap is on the LH side of the vehicle & is close to the battery/electronics locker. Space is very tight. I’d like to make it clear I’m not chasing a warranty repair at this stage, nor have I had any problems with either Mobilvetta or Traillite. We’ll see how the repair process goes first. Euromarque the Fiat dealer working on the bus have been great so far, but I do know Traillite said the hadn’t heard of this problem before. The forum hasn’t identified any known problem either so I’ll keep you all up to date with progress. Thanks, Geoff 

[Derek Uzzell]

4 hours ago, GeoffC said:

...Euromarque the Fiat dealer working on the bus have been great so far, but I do know Traillite said the hadn’t heard of this problem before...

Despite Hans comment about A-class motorhomes, I couldn't find any on-line comments about fuel-filler problems similar to yours where EUROPEAN-BUILT 'integral' designs are concerned.

There certainly are on-line complaints relating to USA A-class models ('coach' type designs) where the fuel-filling point can (literally) be metres away from the fuel tank and can result in serous problems if the pipework between the filler and tank sags, kinks or splits, but that's another matter.