andyw Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 We're looking to buy a small car to tow behind our Rapido. I understand the 750kg threshold but am looking for a source as to what cars fall below the 750kg. We have to transport two adults and two medium sized dogs generally which seems to preclude the ususal suggestions of Smart Car, Fiat 500/600 etc. I would appreciate any suggestions. many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 How do you intend to tow, with an A frame or trailer? What is it you understand about the 750KG limit? Have you looked at the Microcar? Do a googlefor it. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hi, Good question Dave, as there is a lot more than just the weight of the car to consider Just for information Fiat are apparently bringing out a new version of the 500 later this year it will include a diesel version which could make it interesting as a tow vehicle albeit I think it will like most cars exceed a kerb weight of 750kg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Its not the kerb weight that counts ,its GVW and there ain't many that fall under 750KGs GVW. The French Aixam and the microcar are a couple that I believe do. The weight limit is a red herring though if its just the question of braking on an A frame because if brakes are fitted they must be functioning when towed on an A frame. Other legalities regarding A frames preclude their use anyway technically but many choose to ignore these facts. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Stick it on a braked trailer and you are only limited by the max train weight of the towing vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 1, 2007 Share Posted July 1, 2007 Clive - 2007-07-01 7:36 PM Stick it on a braked trailer and you are only limited by the max train weight of the towing vehicle. Which is precisely the reason for the questions in my first reply. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyw Posted July 1, 2007 Author Share Posted July 1, 2007 Hi chaps et al. Many thanks for the immediate guidance. I have read all the threads in MMM and find it seriously confusing. The TOWtal booklet gives the 750kg as combined axle mass, i.e., loaded trailer or car kerb weight. Correct - if brakes are fitted they should works etc. and they go on to give a mechanical or electrical solution. Given the correspondence from the Dept. of Transport it all sounds ok? Our van is a 3950 gross weight so how would I go about finding out what trailer it could tow? Are there nose weight issues etc.? Many thanks in advance. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Andy: I suggest you begin by looking at the FAQ section of the National Trailer and Towing Association's website (www.ntta.co.uk) As I see it, UK motorcaravanners keen to tow with an A-frame first need to accept that the practice conflicts with this country's towing technical regulations. This is clearly the case and, when I discussed the issue with a TOWTAL rep in the past, it was freely admitted. The TOWTAL chap maintained however that, as our police seem happy to tolerate the practice, nobody has (apparently) been prosecuted in the UK for doing it and UK insurance companies appear unconcerned, A-frame towing offered virtually no risk of ending up in a UK court. Whether you gain comfort from this argument is up to you, but there have been reports of A-frame towers being fined abroad in countries where the practice is illegal for their own-registered vehicles and the police enjoy keeping a beady eye on foreign visitors' driving habits. Regarding what weight of trailed load your motorhome can legally tow, this will be limited by the maximum trailer weights set by the base-vehicle manufacturer and/or the motorhome's Gross Train Weight (GTW = total weight of vehicle in currently loaded state + weight of everything being dragged behind it). If we take my Ford Transit-based Hobby as an example, this is built on a 3500kg 'overall weight' chassis, has trailer weight limits of 1000kg (braked trailer) or 750kg (un-braked) and a GTW of 4500kg. Let's assume I plan to tow a small car on a braked trailer and I've got my Hobby loaded to 3100kg. In principle the Hobby's GTW of 4500kg would permit me to tow 1400kg (4500 - 3100) but, in practice, I can only tow 1000kg due to the trailer weight limit. The GTW datum can be found on your motorhome's VIN plate(s), while trailer-weight maxima may be defined in your base-vehicle manufacturer's handbook or in promotional literature. If your motorhome is Type Approved then weight limit data (including, I think, a nose-weight limit) should be found on its Certificate of Conformity. If all else fails, seek advice from a Rapido agent. I do recall the TOWTAL rep saying they strongly recommended that only motorhomes with '4-wheel' rear axles (presumably that means chassis that have either a tandem rear-axle arrangement or a single axle with twinned-wheels at each end) be used to tow cars on un-braked trailers or A-frames. This is not a nose-weight thing, just that, under heavy deceleration, the more rubber the towing vehicle has on the road to counter the sideways 'push' from behind the better. (I notice that the next issue (August 2007) of MMM magazine will contain an "All about A-Frames" article and this will probably address most of your questions.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyw Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Derek, many thanks. It seems clear that a trailer is the logical way to go. My resistance is that it's yet another bit of kit to buy and store when not in use. At least the car will not require modification at each change. Many thanks for everyones responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hi, Derek Can you please elaborate on this paragraph, are you saying that the rep was suggesting this for all "A" frames or just un-braked "A" frames, as from what i can understand, leaving the legal issues aside, the "A" frames that i have looked at have either some form of cabling that operates the cars brakes or they use a ? brake buddy ?. I am asking this as i am seriously looking at having an "A" frame fitted in the next few months Thanks Derek Uzzell - 2007-07-02 9:35 AM I do recall the TOWTAL rep saying they strongly recommended that only motorhomes with '4-wheel' rear axles (presumably that means chassis that have either a tandem rear-axle arrangement or a single axle with twinned-wheels at each end) be used to tow cars on un-braked trailers or A-frames. This is not a nose-weight thing, just that, under heavy deceleration, the more rubber the towing vehicle has on the road to counter the sideways 'push' from behind the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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