Travel From Narbonne (near Marseille) to Sofia (Bulgaria)

[Ivys]

Hi Folks

 

We are planning a three-stage trip. On the first two stages there will be five of us, the last stage there will be six. We are considering pulling a small car on an A-frame or will take a small trailer.

 

I need help and advice please, especially for the second stage (Narbonne to Sofia).

 

Stage 1 UK to Narbonne (Beginning of Dec)

This is the easy part and many threads cover it.

Still, any help/advice appreciated.

 

Stage 2 Narbonne to Sofia (Just before Christmas)

We think (correct us please!) that the best would be to take a ferry from France to Greece or from Italy (Ancona?) to Greece (IGOUMENITSA?).

It appears to me to be a three-day trip this way, driving all the way would take four days at least.

Can anyone recommend a route and which ferry to take. Any idea of costs? Best website to look at?

 

Stage 3 Sofia to UK (End of Jan 2008)

Presume it's simply drive, drive and drive some more.

What route to take?

How long will it actually take?

Any idea on road/toll costs?

Any issues with dragging a small car on an A-frame?

 

Thanks

Roger

 

[Don Madge]

Roger,

 

Very interesting.

 

This is the way I would do it.

 

Use the ferry from either Bari or Brindisi to Igoumenitsa.

 

Agoudimos Lines http://www.agoudimos-lines.com/routeEN_01.asp

 

Ventouris Ferries http://tinyurl.com/2n8sqj

 

There are other ferries but these two will let you sleep in the van.

 

From Igoumenitsa take the E90/92 motorway to Thessaloniki then the E79 to Serres and Sofia.

 

If you decided to take this route I can give you an overnight stop in Greece.

 

I've done the route and it's fairly easy except you could encounter snow. In Greece if there is laying snow you must have snow chains.

 

I have a route back from Sofia to the UK I'll look it up and mail you direct.

 

That's a start for you.

 

Don.

 

PS. there ain't any direct ferries from France to Greece.

[Brian Kirby]

Roger

Do you want to go down the motorways or meander? 

I think you should be able to go to Igoumenitsa from Venice, Ancona or Brindisi.  Final choice will presumably dependend on what is sailing from where around Christmas, how much you like the Adriatic in December (i.e. weather) and who charges what!

Re the A frame, there are extensive posts on this subject on this forum.  If I try to summarise the consensus, it is that the actual legality of A frames in UK has not yet been tested in the courts.  They are therefore in a "grey area" and, unless and until a test case is brought by someone, will remain so. 

However, they are definately not legal in a lot of Europe, which is to say they have not officially been permitted, and so are automatically deemed illegal.  Some confusion results from the principle that vehicles from one European state may freely visit another European state, even though features of the visiting vehicle may not fully comply with the laws of the host state.  However, any such non compliant features must actually be legal in the vehicle's home state.  Since an A frame, although not actually illegal in the UK, has not formally been pronounced legal, this provision can not be extended to A frames towed by UK registered vehicles.  This is thought a bit of a fine point to argue with an armed policeman, whose mother tongue is not one's own!

It seems this arises from the difference between our common law based approach, where that which is not actually pronounced illegal is deemed legal, and the Napoleonic tradition more common in the rest of Europe, where that which is not specifically pronounced legal, is deemed illegal.

To avoid Serbia, which I think is generally considered wise, you'll either need to reverse the ferry trip via Italy, or transit Romania.  Might it be worth consulting the FCO?  Also, a look at magbaz travels might be helpful, as I think they went that way a while back.

Good luck.

[Ivys]

Thanks both Don and Brian for your advice.

 

Normally we meander, but in this case we will want to move a little faster. We have family in Narbonne and very good friends in Sofia (my business partner actually). Some of the Sofia portion will be business.

 

Roger

 

 

[Don Madge]

Brian Kirby - 2007-07-03 5:11 PM

Roger

Do you want to go down the motorways or meander? 

I think you should be able to go to Igoumenitsa from Venice, Ancona or Brindisi.  Final choice will presumably dependend on what is sailing from where around Christmas, how much you like the Adriatic in December (i.e. weather) and who charges what!

.

Brian,There's no camper deck option available from Venice or Ancona during the winter months.You can now do Bulgaria to UK without going outside the EU.Personally I would not touch an A frame with a barge pole, but I'm an old duffer these days.Don

[Guest JudgeMental]

Agree with Don, surely the A frame would be a waste of time and a real hindrance?

[Brian Kirby]

Don Madge - 2007-07-03 5:48 PM Brian, There's no camper deck option available from Venice or Ancona during the winter months. You can now do Bulgaria to UK without going outside the EU. Personally I would not touch an A frame with a barge pole, but I'm an old duffer these days. Don

Hadn't really considered deck camping as an option in December!  Even the Adriatic can get seriously rough at times, and being in your van, on deck, without heating (I assume no gas heaters while on board), and periodically soaked in copious amounts of cold salt spray, just seemed a bit too spartan!  Still, maybe I'm just soft, but I'd assumed all below decks and tucked away safely!

[Don Madge]

Brian Kirby - 2007-07-04 1:41 PM

Don Madge - 2007-07-03 5:48 PM Brian, There's no camper deck option available from Venice or Ancona during the winter months. You can now do Bulgaria to UK without going outside the EU. Personally I would not touch an A frame with a barge pole, but I'm an old duffer these days. Don

Hadn't really considered deck camping as an option in December!  Even the Adriatic can get seriously rough at times, and being in your van, on deck, without heating (I assume no gas heaters while on board), and periodically soaked in copious amounts of cold salt spray, just seemed a bit too spartan!  Still, maybe I'm just soft, but I'd assumed all below decks and tucked away safely!

Brian,Your not actually on the open deck. We have done the crossing many times in the last 15 years and never had a problem. If the weather is to bad they will offer you a cabin or you can wait for the weather to ease.This is us and Margaret & Barry Williamson on the Agoudimous ferry from Brindisi to Igoumenitsa in Jan 2006

[Ivys]

The reason we are considering an A-frame is because we have four kids and I will be doing a fair amount of work on the trip. At Narbonne we have family and I'll use their broadband. My business partner lives in Sofia and I'll be doing some work there as well using his broadband. When I am working Claire and the kids will want to be mobile, and that's the reason we bought a Daihatsu Hijet 6-seater. Of course, we could consider taking it on a trailer. I know of the many issues around A-frames in general in Europe, I just wanted to know of any specific issues on our proposed routes. For example, if we were to use an A-frame are there sections or whole countries where we would be advised to uncouple and drive the towed car?

 

I'll take your advice about paying for a cabin instead of sleeping in the van on deck. I hadn't realised that we would not be allowed to use our heating. We bought a van because we believe that any fool can be uncomfortable if he wants to be.

 

[Don Madge]

Ivys - 2007-07-04 3:24 PM

 

The reason we are considering an A-frame is because we have four kids and I will be doing a fair amount of work on the trip. At Narbonne we have family and I'll use their broadband. My business partner lives in Sofia and I'll be doing some work there as well using his broadband. When I am working Claire and the kids will want to be mobile, and that's the reason we bought a Daihatsu Hijet 6-seater. Of course, we could consider taking it on a trailer. I know of the many issues around A-frames in general in Europe, I just wanted to know of any specific issues on our proposed routes. For example, if we were to use an A-frame are there sections or whole countries where we would be advised to uncouple and drive the towed car?

 

I'll take your advice about paying for a cabin instead of sleeping in the van on deck. I hadn't realised that we would not be allowed to use our heating. We bought a van because we believe that any fool can be uncomfortable if he wants to be.

 

Roger,

 

Mains electricity is available it's only gas you can't use. We have a small fan heater which we use on the camper deck if required.

 

Although they ban the use of gas on the deck it did not stop the crew on a Bayram holiday BBQ a sheep at the end of the deck.

 

If the camper deck is full, I don't think for one minute it will be in December, you would have to leave the car/trailer/A frame on the lower deck. This happens quite often in the high season. It happens with caravanners, they often have the caravan on the camper deck and the car on the lower deck.

 

As long as you have somebody with you who can drive the Hijet if need be I can't see too many problems.

 

You won't be leaving the Eu so that's a bonus.

 

Don

[Brian Kirby]

Don Madge - 2007-07-04 1:57 PM

Brian Kirby - 2007-07-04 1:41 PM

Don Madge - 2007-07-03 5:48 PM Brian, There's no camper deck option available from Venice or Ancona during the winter months. You can now do Bulgaria to UK without going outside the EU. Personally I would not touch an A frame with a barge pole, but I'm an old duffer these days. Don

Hadn't really considered deck camping as an option in December!  Even the Adriatic can get seriously rough at times, and being in your van, on deck, without heating (I assume no gas heaters while on board), and periodically soaked in copious amounts of cold salt spray, just seemed a bit too spartan!  Still, maybe I'm just soft, but I'd assumed all below decks and tucked away safely!

Brian, Your not actually on the open deck. We have done the crossing many times in the last 15 years and never had a problem. If the weather is to bad they will offer you a cabin or you can wait for the weather to ease. This is us and Margaret & Barry Williamson on the Agoudimous ferry from Brindisi to Igoumenitsa in Jan 2006

Thanks Don

I had previously seen only pictures of motorhomes out on the foredeck of a ferry, so had fallen into the trap of assuming all were similar.  This is covered, but presumably those are big ventilation 'oles?  That seems much better. 

Not exactly overcrowded was it?  Given the added shelter from the ship, a fan heater should be fine.