Camp Sites v Aires v Wild

[Mel E]

Just back from a shortish trip to the south of France. Our experience confirmed my suspicion that camp sites are best. Tell me I'm wrong (I'm sure lots of you will!!!) but here are my conclusions, given by way of examples:

 

CAMP SITES: When touring in France we tend to stay at Municipals. We stayed at 2 this time and the most we paid was 14.40 Euros (up from 12 Euros outside the July/Aug peak season). For this we got a large pitch area on nice mowed grass, free use of hot showers and good san facs and free emptying and fresh water. Plus the benefit of good security and quiet nights. Seems excellent value to me.

 

AIRES: I would be foolish to dump all Aires into the same pot, but very many seem to provide only hard surface with the motorhomes packed together like cars in a supermarket car park. For this you are typically charged between 6 and 15 Euros per night, plus an extra 2 Euros for water. There is nowhere to eat outside al fresco, and precious little security (read an earlier post about the Aire at Arromanches, where I have stayed). And I have found them often to be noisy until late at night, perhaps because of the close proximity of the vehicles.

 

WILD: We often stay at the municipal at Nouan les Fuzeliers, south of Orleans, as it makes a great half-way stop down to the west Med coast of France. We did so this trip, and noted the part of the site nearest the main road (the N20) and adjacent railway line to be about 500 metres or more. We also noted a brand new £45,000+ motorhome parked (ramps used to level it) in the station car park, just opposite the side road to the camp site. To save 12 Euros, and not avail himself of any of the advantages of the camp site (see above), he'd put himself within 50 metres of a main railway line active overnight. Now, I've wild camped out in the real wild, but every time I've tried a motorway Aire de Service or similar, I have simply spent a wakeful night as trucks arrive and depart. I once met an experienced 'wild camper' who explained that he never used the pull-down overcab bed in their A Class, but slept on the settee "in case the ploive visit and move us on during the night" - this is a holiday??

 

Why does anyone Wild Camp? Please enlighten me why saving a few Euros is worth all that hassle and lack of security and facilities?

 

Mel E

====

[enodreven]

Hi, I totally agree, you are making the same point I raised in the last thread about Aires, the price of French campsites especially the municipals or if you have an ACSI card is so low that most Aires or wild camping in car parks just doesnt seem worth the hassle ?

 

I do appreciate that there are some Aires in very nice places and we do use them but for the most part we use campsites, because as you say its suposed to be a holiday ?

[griffly16]

Hi, nothing against camp sites per se, but we like to wild camp as a lot of the time camp sites are just too far away from a town. We like to go into a town/village, have a few drinks and sample the nightime atmosphere. Gettin back to a campsite late at night when it could be several miles away with no public transport and less chance of a taxi just means that it is impractical for us.

 

We've only stayed on 3 campsites in the last year - two in UK and one in France.

 

Griff

 

[dogmad]

I agree, most sites aren't convenient for towns or villages. Where do you park Griff, eg supermarket, pub car parks?

[DonW]

We like to pick sites where we can walk off the site with the dogs into nice countryside. Being on a site give some sense of security that the van will still be there when we get back! We tend to relax in the van come the evening ( although a last rip for the dogs is essential). If we need food etc. We either walk to local shops ( one can hold the dogs whilst the other nips in the shop) or we get things when moving from site to site.

We have wild camped when younger - really wild camped no car or van just sleeping bags and a large plastic sheet now we prefer peace of mind. Just choose the right sort of site.

Don't you do enough driving getting to the sites?

Don

[Clive]

We "Wild Camp" in exactly the same style and for exactly the same reasons that HGV lorry drivers sleep overnight in lay-bys. We are going somewhere and need to park up for a few hours kip.

 

How many lorry drivers do you see with their wagone in camp sites?

 

C.

 

 

 

[Mel E]

Griff,

 

For big towns and cities, I personally wouldn't want to camp in a supermarket car park or whatever, simply for sense of security (and thus a good night's sleep).

 

For small towns and villages, almost every one has a camp site within 10 minutes walk of town/village centre.

 

Example: We spent the night at the site at Montreuil a couple of nights ago - an ancient fortified town with a walk right round the walls. Only 10 minutes to the other side of town and some excellent eateries. Sure we could have parked in the town square - and risked being moved on to prepare for the following day's market.

 

So I still don't understand!

 

Mel E

====

[Brian Kirby]

All I would like to add is my hobby-horse piece about French motorway service areas and picnic areas not being designated for overnight stops. 

Yes, in French they are called aires; but no, they are not overnighting places, and the French police generally advise against doing this. 

It is not illegal, so you won't be shooed off, but they do attract robbers because they are anonymous and the getaway is so quick and easy. 

Somewhat confusingly, there are a handful of designated "aires de service camping-car" on the autoroutes, but again these are not intended, or recommended, for overnighting.  They are en-route dump stations, usually with a water and electricity bourne, but not overnight parks. 

Sorry to labour the point, but the sooner people stop using these autoroute "aires" for overnighting, the less they will be at risk of robbery - with gas or not!  As Mel says, is it worth the risk for the sake of a few Euros?

[crinklystarfish]

Mel E - 2007-07-08 7:53 PM

Why does anyone Wild Camp? Please enlighten me why saving a few Euros is worth all that hassle and lack of security and facilities? Mel E ====

For me 'wild camping' isn't about parking next to a railway line or in a town centre, but quite literally being in the wild. There's proably a distinction to be drawn between genuinely camping in the wild and 'rough' camping, where people do indeed park up in close proximity to habitation and infrastructure for reasons better known to them.

I have a deep appreciation of natural history and people tend to get in the way of this. If humans don't irritate you then you probably won't ever understand. I could go on to wax lyrical about landscape and the haunting cries of crepuscular birds, but I suspect I'd be wasting my time.

I truly hope that most people are pesuaded by your post and head for formal facilities. They'll be out of my way.

[A W]

I think going from campsite to campsite is a fabulous idea---------------------

if you're towing a caravan

[derek500]

Mel E - 2007-07-08 8:53 PM

 

JAIRES: I would be foolish to dump all Aires into the same pot, but very many seem to provide only hard surface with the motorhomes packed together like cars in a supermarket car park. For this you are typically charged between 6 and 15 Euros per night, plus an extra 2 Euros for water.

====

 

I've stayed at a few aires and they have all been free. Occasionally there has a been a 2€ charge for water and an hour of electricity.

 

Some examples of good free aires:-

 

Touzac - next to a farmhouse in a vineyard

 

Perigueux - on the banks of the river in the town centre, but quiet.

 

Biarritz - one minute's walk to the beach.

 

The one campsite we stayed twice last year was in Chartres, 19€. On another forum (MHT) someone is saying they were robbed there last week.

 

http://www.motorhometoday.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1279&hl=chartres

[derek500]

Mel E - 2007-07-08 8:53 PM

 

We also noted a brand new £45,000+ motorhome parked (ramps used to level it) in the station car park, just opposite the side road to the camp site. To save 12 Euros, and not avail himself of any of the advantages of the camp site (see above), he'd put himself within 50 metres of a main railway line active overnight.

 

I've got a 46,000€ MH and I can't afford to stay at campsites every night. Just because someone has got an expensive MH doesn't mean they've got loads of disposable income!!

 

 

[enodreven]

Obviously if people can't afford to pay for campsites then that's OK its just that if you have the money then I feel campsites are far better option in the majority of cases and they are substantially cheaper than in the UK.

 

On a similar point what are your perception of Gypsies/Travelers parking in the UK is it acceptable in certain areas ? as I hear a lot of people complaining about them, isn't wild camping the same thing ??

 

 

 

[johnsandywhite]

B-) Being a Full-Timer (sort of) of 7 years and a Wild Camper for the same period of time. I have used Aires, Parking lots, Lay-byes. In Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal and the USA.

We have only twice ever been robbed. Both times our cycles were taken from the bike racks (chained).

Once in Spain when we had parked a couple of miles away from our friends and spent several hours with them.

The other time was parked next to our second house.

We still see our cycles robbed in our village. But the POLICE (?????) have told us to stop harrassing these INNOCENT people. 8-) *-) >:-)

[Ralph]

derek500 - 2007-07-09 11:18 AM

 

 

I've got a 46,000€ MH and I can't afford to stay at campsites every night. Just because someone has got an expensive MH doesn't mean they've got loads of disposable income!!

 

 

Here Here!

 

Why does everyone assume that having an expensive van means you are rolling in it?

I bought my van when I was working. At that time I had plenty of "disposable". Shortly after I was redunded/retired and still had the loan on it :-S

Also there's a difference in finding ten quid a night for a fortnights break but it mounts up a bit more when you want to stay away for longer.

 

But as I said in another thread, it's not just for money. I don't just like aires for their cost (indeed some are quite expensive) but I just enjoy them. Each to their own and "vive la difference!"

 

Regarding security, I met some people (on an aire as it happens) who had left a site in Spain after someone was stabbed by a thief stealing from a van so is anywhere really safe?

 

 

 

[Ralph]

enodreven - 2007-07-09 12:04 PM

 

On a similar point what are your perception of Gypsies/Travelers parking in the UK is it acceptable in certain areas ? as I hear a lot of people complaining about them, isn't wild camping the same thing ??

 

 

 

If they only stay overnight and move on without leaving any mess then I wouldn't object.

But they dont...

 

 

[crinklystarfish]

enodreven - 2007-07-09 12:04 PM

Obviously if people can't afford to pay for campsites then that's OK its just that if you have the money then I feel campsites are far better option in the majority of cases and they are substantially cheaper than in the UK.

On a similar point what are your perception of Gypsies/Travelers parking in the UK is it acceptable in certain areas ? as I hear a lot of people complaining about them, isn't wild camping the same thing ??

Regarding point 1, well, maybe, if using them suits your preference, and you don’t mind being constrained by the site’s physical attributes, plus being scrutinised by its sometimes pontificating clientele.

Regarding point 2, plainly not, and what is more this is a red herring. In the same way that Muslim does not equal terrorist, ‘wild camper’ does not equal gypsy. Though I accept there is a continuum at work, the characteristics of the two groups are entirely different. Though Ralph/> has alluded to a start above, I see little point in documenting the characteristics because they are widely and intuitively understood. You would know, would you not, if it were one or the other that had just pulled up on the waste ground across from your house?

When people are seen discreetly camping in tents high up mountains or off the beaten track, no-one assumes they would be ‘better off’ if they had the good sense to go to a formal site and forego the peace / tranquillity / sense of wilderness they clearly covet. Why is there an assumption that when people do the same in a vehicle it’s somehow alright to judge them?

I have strong views about the kind of motorhome user that only uses their ‘van to trot from site to site. I have no desire to force my will upon them though. If that’s what they want to do, that’s their choice.

In the same way I wouldn’t align wild campers with gypsies, I wouldn’t try to align site-users with concepts like boring, unadventurous, staid, shackled, sheep-like, conservative, unimaginative, etc. That would be shallow, and probably inaccurate.

[griffly16]

Dogmad - In Scotland we have parked on roads in residential areas, by lakes and mountains in the middle of nowhere and outside pubs in a lay-by.

 

In England/Wales we have mainly parked in pub car parks (after asking permission, and spending some money in their pub). These are not big, noisy town-centre pubs but quieter, more 'local' ones. we have also parked on quiet public roads in a decent-looking area (such as in Lyme Regis)

 

MelE - I've only been to France in the van once, and we stayed on aires (not motorway ones) which were free and usually in excellent locations. OK, they may not all be picturesque but some of them were stunning. We also stayed on a campsite for a couple of nights. We are going to SW france in September and may use a couple of sites if we can find any suitably close to the towns we wish to visit, otherwise we'll do exactly as we did in April. I base my trips around the towns/villages I wish to visit, then work out if there's anywhere to stay! If not, then I'll stop virtually anywhere that looks safe.

 

I really don't think in the UK that there is a campsite 'within a short walk' of most towns, hence the wildcamping.

 

Griff

 

[BrianR]

I don't recognize Mel's average price for an aire in France - in my experience (and I spend an average of 4 months a year there) most aires are either free or you pay perhaps €2 for the services, if you use them. The aires I choose don't involve being cheek by jowl with other 'vans - but then I don't travel in the high season. I use campsites when this is more convenient, or if I want to stop in one particular place for more than 1 or 2 nights, or if it is winter and I need electricity. Otherwise, I can't see the point in paying for facilities that I don't require. As regards security, I don't think the average campsite is any more secure than the average aire. I suppose it does depend upon how you spend your time. If you use your 'van to visit places and then just want somewhere to stop for the night, then aires (or wild camping) win hands down.

 

Brian

[griffly16]

Brian - nail on the head there... We usually only stop for one night max in most places so wildcamping or an aire is sometimes the only way. If I was going for a week or two to one place, then yes, I think a campsite would be infinitely better.

 

Griff

 

[ROND]

griffly16 - 2007-07-09 4:47 PM

 

 

 

I really don't think in the UK that there is a campsite 'within a short walk' of most towns, hence the wildcamping.

 

Griff

 

 

Yes i would agree with that comment Griff,nearly all the CC sites and the Cls are way outside of towns or villages unlike the aires in France or the municipals which tend to be right in the villages.

We love the French aires and also the German stella platz and always prefer to use those instead of sites where possible. As for wild camping yes certainly in Portugal where there are no sites nearby and you are miles from anywhere, we have had some wonderful spots on beautiful beaches and some wild spots such as Sagres right in front of the police station with no problems whatsoever but not keen on wildcamping in Spain as we never feel too safe there and prefer to play safe with a campsite.

[Mel E]

Some really useful stuff so far on this thread - so thanks everyone. A couple of comments:

 

WILD CAMPING: Yes, we've wild camped often - in the wilds of Scotland, Spain, etc, and we've used Restaurant and Pub Car Parks with permission. But, having lived in a village for 25 years, I need quiet to sleep at night, so I will not use laybys or similar because of the noise. That's obviously a personal choice.

 

I have to say that parking overnight in a residential street is - to my mind - the sort of thing that gives motorhoming a bad name. We should not do it. Anyone disagree?

 

COSTS OF FRENCH AIRES: The prices I quoted were for High Season and based on experience and info from magazines. I should have made clear that some Aires - probably between a third (High Season) and two thirds (Low Season when open) make no charge, other than the usual 2 Euros for water, etc. I apologise for that, but I was trying to stimulate some discussion.

 

I have just bought a copy of a brand new French Magazine - ESPRIT CAMPING CAR - which contains a review of 6 selected Aires in the Basque Region of France. The overnight charges are quoted as 7.35, 6, Free, Free, 5, 6. Photos are shown of each site: all are hard standing with motorhomes packed in like sardines (one exception) and two are right next to main line, double track, electrified railways. The magazine gives + and - comments for each site and rates them overall. The worst scores 9/20 and the best 13/20. These are Aires at beautiful places like St Jean Pied de Port, Hendaye, Biarritz.

 

My problem is that, if I'm touring, I need to have an idea of where I'm stopping for the night. I've only once or twice found really poor camp sites, but I've often found the Aires a disappointment, and moving on then adds hassle.

 

SPAIN: I do allow that Spanish Camp Sites with 50% or more statics are awfully noisy in season until very late (i.e., early) hours - wouldn't stay in one for all the world!

 

SO IT'S HORSES FOR COURSES! There's no solution that's right for everyone!

 

Mel E

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[Brian Kirby]

I'm with Mel on this, we much prefer campsites. 

I had an interesting discussion with a caravanner at Apt about use of site facilities.  He didn't use them at all, and couldn't understand why we used them all.  His basic argument was that he'd paid for his own facilities, so couldn't see any point in using (excellent and spotless) site facilities.  Mine was that we had on board facilities we could used if necessary, but generally used site toilets, which someone else cleaned; site showers, with their copious amounts of running hot water; and site washing up sinks, because of the abundant hot water, and the opportunities to chat to other people.  It also means I spend far less time emptying and filling tanks, and emptying the toilet cassette.  He simply couldn't understand my attitude, nor me his, so we agreed to differ, and chatted on about other things.

I think this sites vs aires debate is a bit similar.  We started camping with tents, progressed through a trailer tent, to two small caravans, none of which had anything more than a Porta-Potty and basic cooking facilities.  We were therefore used to campsites before we got our motorhome, and like to be able to put out tables and chairs and sit under our awning for meals and drinks.  The motorhome makes this very easy and, if the weather is fine, we do this even for overnight stops.

However, I have noticed that people on aires seem to spend most of their time inside their vans and, when we have used these, we have tended to do likewise.  I do not feel at ease sitting outside in a glorified car park, and in many such, extending an awning would be impossible.  There must be some aires where one can "camp" in comfort, but I haven't yet seen one, so we continue to prefer the comfort of sites.

So, I'm puzzled by some of the comments above.  Do those who use aires in preference extend their awnings, get out their tables and chairs and eat al frecso, or do you mainly stay in, just putting the odd chair out for an hour or so, or what?

[michele]

Well Brian ,

 

Have stayed at Hornfluer a few times and have not seen many people out and about we have seen people sitting on their chairs outside theirM/H once or twice .

We have stayed there for the convience of going into the town for a resturant or just general shopping .

We don't have a must be a campsite rule or a must be a Aire either rule.

We have a suck it and see rule I think if everyone is happy with what they have got than that is fine once again what ever floats your boat .

 

On the whole we prefer to pay our money lock up and walk away at campsites feeling a little more secure than on the road but then that is not always guaranteed . Sometimes hubby likes a little tipple to unwind and feel like we are away nice to know that you are offically parked and no reason to be called upon to move on .

 

If we can't get into a campsite then obviously we use the Town municiple camp site and failing that an Aire if it feels right.

 

I think this thread is fast developing into the Oven or no Oven box.

I don't have a problem paying but then again I don't have a problem buying cheaper ;-) if it suits

 

 

[crinklystarfish]

Brian Kirby - 2007-07-10 1:19 PM

 

There must be some aires where one can "camp" in comfort, but I haven't yet seen one....Do those who use aires in preference extend their awnings, get out their tables and chairs and eat al frecso?...

 

There are indeed, and we have. However, it's never a guaranteed option on anything but a formal site. If that's the kind of camping that's preferred, then a site is probably the right choice.

 

Wild camping / aires are simply not the same kind of entity as a formal camp site. I think that much of this current and previous debates attempt to compare them, when perhaps the real focus should be on contrasting them.

 

A man in a bivvybag on a mountain top is not considered in the same context as a family in a ridge tent pitched on a site near the swimming pool and restaurant.

 

It doesn't make any sense that just because a 'van is the medium, that we should suddenly belong to an homogenous group with similar value-systems.

 

Where you stay and why is all about who you are and what you want to do. Simple really.