Brian Kirby Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 crinklystarfish - 2007-07-10 3:40 PM It doesn't make any sense that just because a 'van is the medium, that we should suddenly belong to an homogenous group with similar value-systems. Where you stay and why is all about who you are and what you want to do. Simple really. How very true, Steve. But isn't it funny how these discussions begin to generate heat, rather than light? Folk seem to get terribly tetchy if others say they prefer alternative approaches, as though their own favoured approach were being criticised by implication. We have used a few aires, and both felt uncomfortable on them, and somehow rather trapped. On sites we just relax in our own bit of space, which is usually quite generous, with the "neighbours" behind a bit of hedge in their own bit of space. On aires, somehow, folk seem to want to snuggle up to you, so when you look out of your window you end up watching them wash their lettuce - or worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianR Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 From the comments made by a number of contributers, I think one of the differences in the perception of aires is due to the time when you travel. I know of plenty of aires where there will be only one or two 'vans there, with plenty of space for everybody - but then this will be in Spring or Autumn. If you are forced to travel high season, then I can well unerstand the preference for a campsite. Many is the time that I have sat underneath the castle at Biron, watching the setting sun, with a view for miles (or is it kilometres?), with nobody else around, all for free, unless I need to fill up with water. There is an excellent restaurant just 500M away - but no campsite for miles! Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thank goodness we are all so different. If not I wouldn't be able to get on aires as they would all be full and Brian couldn't get into the toilets as they would be full of people like me who usually use their own. In fact Brian's post sums it up really. I've never been able to understand why people have luxurious washrooms and then use the site facilities instead. I'm not wrong and neither is Brian. We just do things differently. The great thing is that we can discuss it all here, hear the other viewpoints and then do what we want to do. Good innit? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Brian Kirby - 2007-07-10 4:11 PMHow very true, Steve. But isn't it funny how these discussions begin to generate heat, rather than light? Folk seem to get terribly tetchy if others say they prefer alternative approaches, as though their own favoured approach were being criticised by implication. On aires, somehow, folk seem to want to snuggle up to you, so when you look out of your window you end up watching them wash their lettuce - or worse!Indeed Brian, but I venture that sometimes the criticism is rather more than implied, and the process of having to defend a view really does force one to fully consider the subject; so maybe it's no bad thing given the virtual medium. I fancy views wouldn't be so robust in the real world?Much would depend on the age and condition of the lettuce.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 :D The condition of the Lettuce :D Never argue with Lunatics or Policemen ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 So lettuce all just agreed to differ shall we? T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Ok just becCOS we can . I think Mel E made a brilliant subject to talk about brought out some brilliant view points . Still to this day I laugh I can't help it (no offence intended) at what people call Wild . I call wild like in the outback Australia or in Scotland anywhere actually where you can not see houses shops cafes and the like . To me to be wild is exactly that wild on a limb out on your own but once again it all go's to show we are all different in our ways all different lettuces and wouldn't it be a strange world if we weren't *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I wild camp. I stop on aires. I stop on campsites. I just drift with the current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevandali Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I seriously think that preferences for Aires or Campsites or responsible wild camping has something to do with age and the way we live our lives. What I mean by this, is that as we go through life we get entrenched in how we do things and prefer it that way and steer away from change. When in our younger years a lot of us would not think about such things as "how secure is the place we have parked" or "will I get a decent nights kip" we would just get on with enjoying ouselves and probably suffer the consequences at a later date. We all worry too much, does it really matter that we have different views on where to stop, the main point to consider is that where ever you stop, if you treat people as you wish to be treated yourself then you won't go far wrong. If anyone has stayed at Houlgate harbour, reversed their rear lounge van to within a metre of the harbour wall, set up the table and chairs outside and cracked open the wine amongst several other vans doing exactly the same, I am sure they would lean towards "wild camping" We leave for France in three weeks and have booked two campsites and will visit Aires and Wild camp for the rest of the time. Whatever you decide to do, enjoy yourselves, life is so short. Sorry for "going on a bit" nothing decent on the telly :-) Kevandali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 foxy - 2007-07-10 8:26 PM I wild camp. I stop on aires. I stop on campsites. I just drift with the current. Add "France Passion" places and that's me too - perfect holiday! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Perhaps slightly off topic Tony but I've always assumed that you need good French and knowledge of wine for France Passion. Is this so? Err, not that I'm suggesting that you don't have either of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Some French would help, but if you give it a bash with what you have you'll be given great credit for trying. Generally speaking, the French are friendly, honest, helpful and generous. There is always the odd exception however so, if you do encounter that one, just don't be put off.Knowledge of wines? If you're going to visit a producer he'll know all you need to know - and more! He may know only his wines, or those of his region, but since he'll be unlikely to sell wines from elsewhere, that won't matter. If you show an interest you are likely to find it difficult to escape, and you may get a guided tour of the whole establishment, though probably not if you arrive in the midst of the harvest! If you really play your cards right, you may need to stop an extra day to dry out before leaving, French drink driving laws are more stringent than ours! However, if you know you won't be buying when you arrive, it is normally considered polite to make this clear before accepting samples or tastings. You won't need to buy cases and, if the stuff is to your liking, a couple of bottles is bound to come in handy somewhere down the road. It won't necessarily be much cheaper than the local supermarket, though - unless you buy enough to earn a bulk discount! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick H. Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Like your first para Brian, the french are excellent people, I think it must be a few wassocks from over here thats got them a bad name.Havn,t found a bad frenchman yet,mind you one did a mooney at us a few years ago for not giving him a lift. Think l,ll try french passion shortly.(thats the farms not the moonies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Agreed - as individuals, the French are lovely. And they'll love you even more if you try and converse in French. It's collectively and, especially, politically, that we start to have a problem. I've never understood why they are prime motovators for a United States of Europe, but at the same time, want to keep everything French. What other nation on earth has a special institute charged with inventing new French words to avoid soiling the language with Franglais? It's funny, because the Norman Conquest ensured that about 65% of modern English is actually French (e.g., virtually all words ending 'ent' or 'ion' are the same in French). Thanks for all the thoughts. We do all three, but mainly use camp sites, except when we're only touring. And maybe it's age showing, but, yes, a 'good night's sleep' is very important to me. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Bit deep, that second paragraph, for here, Mel! However, since you've introduced the topic on your own thread......Surely it is a product of their experience - the national humiliations of two hostile occupations in the last century, of the defeat of Napoleon (who, make no mistake, would have ruled Europe as a French Emperor), the loss of the status of French as the principal international diplomatic language, the fact that the anglo-saxons (zut: mainly the Americans!) dug them out from their two occupations, their resulting desire for autonomy and its consequence: their independent nuclear deterrent. These all seem to me to coalesce around a desire to preserve as tightly as possible that which is French - especially the language - while recognising that they now have little clout as an individual country, but could be a significant part of something that has international reach and clout, if only the EEC can be persuaded at act more collectively. This last, it seems to me, is an attitude we could usefully adopt as well. A Europe of the nations that acts as one, yet retains the individuality of its constituent parts? 'Nuff politics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homenaway Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 An interesting thread We've just got back from 2 months in France and Northern Spain staying at a mix of aires and campsites (mostly in Spain). As was said earlier in this thread we tend to drift and select from what's available wherever we are mid afternoon, using firstly print outs from the French Camping car-info website with users opinions (which improved our understanding of everyday French expressions and some slang) together with the aires book, then if we didn't like the aire when we arrived - or couldn't find it :-( we found a cheap campsite. We only wildcamped once in Spain outside a cemetery where the municipal police drove up in the evening and next morning and gave us a smile - before unlocking the cemetery gates! We certainly enjoy at times having the space around us at a campsite but the weather wasn't much good for sitting around outside this year :-( The only trouble we had was at a municipal campsite at Azay le Rideau where we pitched near the perimeter fence not realising there was a public track next to it and some lads lobbed a stone at our van late evening so we re-located to another pitch. Aires varied so much from free including electric (but the adjacent church bells chimed all night) to 10 euros. Some were grassy with plenty of space eg St Denis d'Oleron, others were literally car parking spaces such as the new one at Collioure near the border with Spain where increasingly motorhomes are not welcome to park in the towns. Often we were the only van on an aire and it was a bit worrying to hear a vehicle pull up alongside at 11.45pm (a German motorhome pulling in for a night stop which wouldn't happen on a campsite!). We didn't find the Spanish campsites to be especially noisy at the weekends as most of the statics were unoccupied. We certainly couldn't afford to stay on campsites every night especially in Spain. Although using the ACSI discount sites where possible, we spent £200 on site fees for 23 nights compared with only £33 on 12 aires plus 18 free nights. We found most French Camping-caristes tended to just give us a nod and a wave when leaving then back inside watching their satellite tv, although I managed a 15 minute conversation with one of them mostly about how good France is for motorhomes compared to other countries and he advised us to visit Portugal - well I think that was the gist of it B-) The French also go to great lengths to avoid paying for water and managed to search out nearby water taps. This year we decided not to drink the tap water from aires having watched some the activities as there is often only one tap situated next to the drain! enjoy your travelling Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianR Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Brian Kirby - 2007-07-12 12:32 PM < A Europe of the nations that acts as one, yet retains the individuality of its constituent parts? 'Nuff politics?[/quote This was De Gaulle's idea a "Europe des Patries", but unfortunately we got stuck with the idea of another Frenchman (Jean Monet) and his United States of Europe. He is famously quoted as saying that this is what the objective was, but that the leaders must never admit that to the people, because they would object. This is precisely what the politicians and civil servants have done (and are still doing). When the French people got their chance, they threw out the proposed treaty. Sarkosy has learn't from this mistake, so he is not going to give them a vote this time. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 We (and the rest of the world) speak English because Nelson won the Battle of the Nile (and thwarted French ambitions in the Middle and Far East) and the Battle of Trafalgar (and thwarted them anywhere that wasn't joined to France by land). We've lost a much bigger Empire, yet we are not paranoid about our country and its individuality - maybe we should be. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Purely in a spirit of international harmony, you understand, I'll allow myself another digression at Mel's expense!Why does so much of the world nominally speak English? Well, whereas the battles of the Nile, Trafalgar, and Waterloo have some role to play, I have to say the British Empire plays another (long term consequence of the former I know), but surely the greatest influence has been the USA (mainly business and the $) and, more recently, the internet?I don't think anyone should be paranoid, and for that matter I don't actually think the French really are; but I do think we could all usefully reflect on what makes us what we are, for good and ill, and how we can hang onto our differentiating characteristics with some pride. It would be very sad if the differences that distinguish the various European tribes were homogenised away in the interests of some great, anonymous, Esperanto speaking, Euroland. If we don't do this for ourselves, no-one else will do it for us and, if there's perceived profit in it, don't expect too much support from the "powers that be" either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Brian, The US speaks English because of Trafalgar - if we'd lost the French would undoubtedly expanded their American empire beyond Loisiana, etc., and maybe, today, Continental North America would be divided between Canada, the United States and The Etats Unis> Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Back on thread - Wild Camping, etc., - I had a fascinatinf discussion at Lincoln with a lady from the Motorcaranners' Club. She claimed that they have lists of stopping points -equivalent to French Aires - throughout the UK which are provided and updated by members and co-ordinated at the centre. They have printed a lovely colour book of similar locations in Portugal. She claims that few of their members use 'official' camp sites (having visited some in Portugal, I can see why) but always park up sensibly so as not to annoy the local citizenry. None of their members would 'wild camp' on private land or in a town without permission, she claimed. It looked good (despite the rose tinted glasses), but do I really want to joing yet another club? Any members of this club care to comment? Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Mel E - 2007-07-16 2:47 PM Back on thread - Wild Camping, etc., - I had a fascinatinf discussion at Lincoln with a lady from the Motorcaranners' Club. She claimed that they have lists of stopping points -equivalent to French Aires - throughout the UK which are provided and updated by members and co-ordinated at the centre. They have printed a lovely colour book of similar locations in Portugal. She claims that few of their members use 'official' camp sites (having visited some in Portugal, I can see why) but always park up sensibly so as not to annoy the local citizenry. None of their members would 'wild camp' on private land or in a town without permission, she claimed. It looked good (despite the rose tinted glasses), but do I really want to joing yet another club? Any members of this club care to comment? Mel E ==== Mel, I've got a list of wild "Parking" spots in Portugal if it's any good to you. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshine Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Hi there, I am just about to 'dip my toe' into motorhoming in Brittany for the first time with a VW camper, am I mad ? Can anyone point my at a publication that lists municipal sites ? I have the Aires books on order and have the Camperstop book. Hope you can help, MS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Depends if you want to tell us your real name or not :D Michelin camping France has most of the Municiple Aires ;-) but there are others out there ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianR Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 For "Moonshine" - I don't think there is a publication devoted solely to municipal sites, but I think they are vitually all listed in the companion campsite guide to the aires guide, which is "Le Guide Officiel Camping Caravaning" (sic) which is published by "Les Guides Motor Presse" and claims to list "tous les camping de France". This claim is not quite correct, but it is more comprehensive than any other publication. You could also contact the Tourist Information Office for each of the departments you wish to visit and ask for a list of campsites. You will find the Tourist Offices through Google, in the capital city for each department. You might even get a list for the whole of Brittany from the one in Rennes - the only address I have is the Pont de Nemours 35000 RENNES tel 0033299790198. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.