Gas Bottles

John S · July 13, 2007

I holiday in France at least a couple of times a year. I own a small van conversion with a rather small gas bottle compartment in which I can fit 2 Calor bottles or 2 Camping Gas 907 bottles. I always use Camping Gas when abroad because of the availability of refills but am becoming increasingly perturbed at the price of refills. In the UK I have recently been quoted something over £17 but eventually got an exchange bottle in a French supermarket for just over £13 - quite dear enough nevertheless.

I am attracted by the low prices charged at French garages for butane or propane when using the rather larger French gas bottles which, unfortunately, will not fit my gas bottle cupboard.

Now to my question - what is to stop me constructing a suitable restraining device in my loo compartment in which to hold a large French bottle whilst travelling and then to park the bottle (chained to the chassis) alongside the van? A long hose could then be threaded out of my gas bottle cupboard through one of the floor knockouts to connect to a regulator on the bottle outside. I have seen many such setups in Spain among the overwintering fraternity and cannot see any drawbacks. Or am I overlooking something obvious? I look forward to some observations.

John S

w1ntersun · July 13, 2007

Hi,

Last year I too strapped a 13kg bottle to the back of the passenger seat to travel down to spain for the winter. I was checked at customs and the inspector never said a word.

If its legal or not I am not sure and would also like to know.

Richard

michele · July 13, 2007

I don't see why you couldn't but then there probably is some law out there to say that you musn't I honestly dont see the difference in it being in or out as long as it's secured properly. You dont say how much a bigger one will cost or the price difference . If its chained up and you declare it on the outwards journey I cant see that you are breaking any laws .

But then what do I know someone will be along soon to say why it' maybe not possible. Good Luck

Derek Uzzell · July 13, 2007

Seems to me you are overlooking the possibility of the gas-bottle strapped down in your motorhome's bathroom leaking while the vehicle is in transit.

It's bad enough having a leaking gas-bottle in a properly designed gas-locker sealed from the motohome's interior and vented to the outside air: having a big bottle leaking within the motorhome's living area itself has got to be a whole lot worse.

I once met a motorcaravanner who was returning from Spain with several small gas-bottles stored in the loo, and the reason he was doing this was because the motorhome's gas-locker was full of plastic containers containing cheap Spanish diesel. There's some strange beggars about!!

crinklystarfish · July 13, 2007

As long as you don't try to take the setup on a ferry I doubt that you'd get any grief.

You can get some small (Stako) refillable cylinders, as small as 5kg, from people like MTH, Autogas 2000 and others. Might one of these fit? Alternatively you could fit a small bulk tank to your chassis. Either of these solutions would be neater / safer, and puts you completely in charge of topping up whenever convenient, plus the gas is only a fraction of the price of any of the exchange schemes.

Terrytraveller · July 13, 2007

Hi John,

We used the French Le Cube Butagas bottle for a few years before going over to the Gaslow refillable system.

The plastic covered Le Cube gas bottle is available from almost all supermarkets and village shops in France, cylinder hire was 26 euros with free regulator, refills were from 10.5 - 13.0 euros for the 5Kg propane or 6Kg butane. The Le Cube bottle should fit in the space normally occupied by a 7Kg Calor gas bottle.

Using the Le Cube for the main supply of gas, and the camping gaz for when the Le Cube runs out, is a good economical way to go, we never ran out of gas with this system on tours of two months at a time, so I highly recommend it as a cheap alternative to GPL installations.

Only reason we changed to Gaslow was to obtain gas in countries other than France.

Regards Terry

coach2000 · July 13, 2007

I agree with Terrytravellor.The le cube is a good buy and I bought one a couple of months ago.It was on special offer at all the supermarkets for 19.95 euros. Still with a free regulator.

They are slightly wider than a small calor bottle of which I have 2 in my Elddis locker. I can only fit 1 le cube, but they are so readily available, even at Netto, that it should not cause a problem.

Clive.

Brian Kirby · July 14, 2007

Another option is the "Twiny" gas bottle, similarly available. Take one Calor and buy either a Twiny, or a Le Cube, when you arrive in France. Set the French bottle as the service bottle, and use the Calor as the reserve. Change the French bottles as soon as possible after they run out and the Calor will last for ages. When in UK, use the Calor as the service bottle with the French bottle as reserve.

To start off with, you'll need to aim to leave for France with a full Calor, and get back to UK with a full French bottle, even if this means changing bottles with a bit left in. Experience will tell you how long your reserves will last if used in this way, so you'll gradually discover how far you can push your luck!

If you mainly tour in France, just get two of the French bottles and get rid of the more expensive Camping Gaz and Calor cylinders. The returned rental charges should almost pay for one of the French bottles!

takeaflight · July 14, 2007

Going off topic a little while in France last month we ran out of Calor, Super U had a deal for 10 euros deposit and 14 for the bottle they supplied a 13 kg butane in a light weight bottle similiar to the MTH Bottles, this also included a free regulator.

Wingpete · July 14, 2007

I am still pondering on how the continentals who motorhome in cold weather manage to get the gas to flow, when they seemingly only have access to butane when we need propane.

I found out the hard way last year, when calor propane started to run out through heavy use keeping warm on non-hook up sites. Switched over to camping gaz, which I can do, only to find it was too cold to be of any use until sun shone on gas locker. :-(

Brian Kirby · July 14, 2007

Propane is available all over Europe. Who/what gave you the idea it isn't?

coach2000 · July 15, 2007

The le cube I bought is Propane. All the French manfacturer's bottles I saw when comparing brands give you the choice of Propane or Butane.

Going offtrack a couple of years ago I was using camping gaz in my oid van and ran out in winter. (Silly me) Needless to say I had to go to 3 different places to find anyone with any on the shelves. It was in the Moutiers area of the Alps. All the time I was looking, I never saw any in a garage, only supermarkets and it was a diy builders merchant that I got some from.

Clive.

Derek Uzzell · July 15, 2007

I think John may need to specify the size of Calor bottle his small van conversion's gas-locker can accommodate. If (as seems likely to me) the locker is tightly limited dimensionally to Calor's 4.5kg(butane)/3.9(propane) size, then he can forget about any French bottle acting as a direct replacement - they will all be too big to go in the locker. I believe MTH Gas Systems still markets a small composite bottle (322mm high x 230mm wide) with 2.5kg(5 litres) gas capacity that is refillable with autogas and I guess that might be a direct replacement option. However there are potential difficulties refilling such a small container as most service-stations limit autogas refills to a minimum of 5 litres.

For the store-the-bottle-in-the-bathroom plan it might be a sensible to consider a container of the type I think takeaflight is referring to. There are two sorts currently available in France - the Antargaz "Calypso" and the Butagaz "Viseo". Both are composite construction and, being 'see through', it's possible to ascertain fairly easily how much gas you've got left. A big advantage (as I see it) is that these containers' lightweight construction and plastic outer shell will make them easier to manoeuvre in and out of the motorhome than a hefty traditional 13kg French steel bottle and much less likely to cause damage if knocked against interior furniture or fittings. However, a potential downside is that "Calypso" and "Viseo" are both butane-only (10kg capacity) and this needs taking into account if John is contemplating very cold weather camping, particularly as the bottle is to be located outside the vehicle. There are many different French steel bottles of various capacities that carry propane but no translucent composite ones. Le Cube, as Terry says, is plastic but differently constructed. I suspect takeaflight obtained a "Calypso" bottle as these are manufactured by the same company (Komposit-Praha) that makes the look-alike containers sold by MTH, plus the deposit/gas-price he mentions sounds right for "Calypso". "Viseo" and "Calypso" were both widely available from supermarkets when we toured France in June.

Brian:

A couple of nit-picking points. You 'buy' a Campingaz bottle outright not 'hire' it, so there's no refund if you no longer have any use for it. The Calor rental agreement specifies that you only get a percentage of the rental charge refunded. This percentage decreases the longer you've 'owned' the bottle and, to qualify for any refund, you also need to be able to present the original hire agreement. All of this conspires to produce the situation in this country where thousands of redundant gas bottles are abandoned at UK recycling centres rather than being fed back into gas-bottle distribution networks. My understanding is that, in France, if you can present the original hire documentation the rental charge is refunded fully and, even if you haven't got the hire documentation, the bottle still has a small 'value' that makes it worth handing back to the supplier rather than just dumping it.

passionwagon · July 15, 2007

John S - 2007-07-13 8:18 AM

I holiday in France at least a couple of times a year. I own a small van conversion with a rather small gas bottle compartment in which I can fit 2 Calor bottles or 2 Camping Gas 907 bottles. I always use Camping Gas when abroad because of the availability of refills but am becoming increasingly perturbed at the price of refills. In the UK I have recently been quoted something over £17 but eventually got an exchange bottle in a French supermarket for just over £13 - quite dear enough nevertheless.
I am attracted by the low prices charged at French garages for butane or propane when using the rather larger French gas bottles which, unfortunately, will not fit my gas bottle cupboard.
Now to my question - what is to stop me constructing a suitable restraining device in my loo compartment in which to hold a large French bottle whilst travelling and then to park the bottle (chained to the chassis) alongside the van? A long hose could then be threaded out of my gas bottle cupboard through one of the floor knockouts to connect to a regulator on the bottle outside. I have seen many such setups in Spain among the overwintering fraternity and cannot see any drawbacks. Or am I overlooking something obvious? I look forward to some observations.
John S

8-) You are crazy. The gas is heavier than air and leakage will fall onto the car/van floor. Will then leak out especially through pedal apertures and be ignited by the starter or alternator sparking. Why do you think gas lockers are vented and sealed from the main van. Also such a mass whether or not restrained will fly about in an accident especailly forward seriously injure the front occupants and the rear. Bet your insurance company does not know!Let me know your travel plans and I will keep a good distance away! :D

Big Momma · July 15, 2007

I am afraid that I am unable to contribute to the initial point of this thread. However, as we are supposed to be part of the bigger Europe then why is their no European standard gas bottle and regulator. Surely this would make our camping lives much simpler (?)

Brian Kirby · July 15, 2007

Big Momma - 2007-07-15 8:26 PM I am afraid that I am unable to contribute to the initial point of this thread. However, as we are supposed to be part of the bigger Europe then why is their no European standard gas bottle and regulator. Surely this would make our camping lives much simpler (?)

Because, I guess, apart from Margaret Beckett, few politicians indulge in camping type recreation, so they aren't interested, so it has no priority etc etc!

Brian Kirby · July 15, 2007

Derek Uzzell - 2007-07-15 5:22 PM Brian: A couple of nit-picking points. You 'buy' a Campingaz bottle outright not 'hire' it, so there's no refund if you no longer have any use for it. The Calor rental agreement specifies that you only get a percentage of the rental charge refunded. This percentage decreases the longer you've 'owned' the bottle and, to qualify for any refund, you also need to be able to present the original hire agreement. All of this conspires to produce the situation in this country where thousands of redundant gas bottles are abandoned at UK recycling centres rather than being fed back into gas-bottle distribution networks. My understanding is that, in France, if you can present the original hire documentation the rental charge is refunded fully and, even if you haven't got the hire documentation, the bottle still has a small 'value' that makes it worth handing back to the supplier rather than just dumping it.

Re Camping Gaz, I stand corrected. It's years since I returned one, but memory was that I got some money back when I did so.