g4oip Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Checked it out with insurance and Swansea and all ok with them english road tax is for english roads and spoke to French police who need insurance and test cert and they dont care about the rest. Many long termers in Spain use English insurance renewed every year but they have local test for roadworthyness and I did the same for 10 years.Must be a bit like the very severe French drink driving laws--looking at what the average frenchman drinks each night how do the ever clear their systems of alcohol at all.Funniest of all is the special Routier lunch which has a bottle of wine included in the meal and I watched a gendarme checking for drunk drivers [mostly not French] and this lorry driver said 'je suis routier' and the gendarme shrugged and walked away.lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 You telling mr that I have just stood in the post office que for nothing ???? how do you propose i get it back off the shuttle on English soil without tax ? I,m lost *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Hi Brian, I believe you will find that Ralph may be correct now regarding the insurance. It used to be possible to suspend or reduce insurance to fire and theft only as you are no doubt aware, however this is no longer possible I am told due to the Police National Database. The reason I was given is that once an insurance is suspended from road use it is removed from the PND and cannot be reinstated under the same policy. This has come to light just this week because as you may remember from my post regarding our insurance that was stopped by the insurance company in error. Well to cut a long story short, my wife was stopped this week by the police for driving an uninsured vehicle and they were going to impound it but fortunately she was close to home phoned me and I was able to produce our current valid Certificate of Insurance. On contacting the insurance company they agreed that niether they nor the police were able to replace the policy back onto the database and have had to issue new documentation, free of charge I might add, under a new policy number for the duration of the old policy. Now the really stupid bit, it is due for renewal on the second day of August. The new database rules has thrown up some unexpected anomylies it seems, now whether there will be changes to iron out this sort of problem I can't say, but I certainly did not get the impression that there will be any changes. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Bazil , Are we at cross purposes here its the TAX not the insurance i thought they were on about if not I have posted in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I don't understand that at all Basil, simply because I have a motor traders policy and I have to log into my insurers database to amend the details of any vehicles I own at any time that I might change them. For example I've recently bought a Rover 420 and taken my work van off the road so I logged on and amended their database to record the Rovers details and take the van off it. They then update the PND system from the information I submit and I can do this as often as needed. As for SORNing a vehicle and then taking it to France (or anywhere else for that matter) this is clearly illegal. SORN stands for Statutory Off Road Notification, i.e. the vehicle is being declared to be not in use on public roads. You cannot declare SORN on a vehicle and then drive it anywhere legally and if it aint legal in your home country then it aint legal abroad. As Michele points out, even if it was acceptable once on the continent there is still the small matter of getting it to the ferry or tunnel and back from there to home. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 g4oip - 2007-07-20 4:29 PM Checked it out with insurance and Swansea and all ok with them english road tax is for english roads and spoke to French police who need insurance and test cert and they dont care about the rest. Many long termers in Spain use English insurance renewed every year but they have local test for roadworthyness and I did the same for 10 years. Afraid you were wrong Alec, and so are all the jolly British long termers. As Dave says, if you cash in the tax and take the vehicle off the road, that is exactly where it is expected to be. I quote "If you are using or keeping your vehicle on a public road you MUST license it. If you are keeping your vehicle off road, and it is not licensed, you MUST declare SORN....." Under the circumstances, if your vehicle was not taxed, it was not legal inside or outside the UK. Don't know who the French copper you spoke to was, but he clearly didn't know his facts.Second, if a vehicle is registered in UK, it cannot be tested outside the UK. Testers will carry out the test work, but the certificate will be invalid at law. This is very likely to affect the insurance on any such vehicle, since the renewal will have been based upon false information: i.e. that the vehicle has a current, valid, test certificate. It it wasn't tested in UK, but it is registered in UK, the test is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 davenewell@home - 2007-07-20 6:51 PM I don't understand that at all Basil, simply because I have a motor traders policy Not quite the same thing Dave. You are in effect doing the same as I would be if I sold vehicle A and changed to vehicle B on the same policy. What we are saying is that you can't keep a policy going and downgrade it to F&T, presumably because that policy already covers RTA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Brian Kirby - 2007-07-20 7:37 PMg4oip - 2007-07-20 4:29 PM Checked it out with insurance and Swansea and all ok with them english road tax is for english roads and spoke to French police who need insurance and test cert and they dont care about the rest. Many long termers in Spain use English insurance renewed every year but they have local test for roadworthyness and I did the same for 10 years. Afraid you were wrong Alec, and so are all the jolly British long termers. As Dave says, if you cash in the tax and take the vehicle off the road, that is exactly where it is expected to be. I quote "If you are using or keeping your vehicle on a public road you MUST license it. If you are keeping your vehicle off road, and it is not licensed, you MUST declare SORN....." Under the circumstances, if your vehicle was not taxed, it was not legal inside or outside the UK. Don't know who the French copper you spoke to was, but he clearly didn't know his facts.Second, if a vehicle is registered in UK, it cannot be tested outside the UK. Testers will carry out the test work, but the certificate will be invalid at law. This is very likely to affect the insurance on any such vehicle, since the renewal will have been based upon false information: i.e. that the vehicle has a current, valid, test certificate. It it wasn't tested in UK, but it is registered in UK, the test is invalid.Brian,Once again we are getting people posting their opinions as facts. The English motorhome fraternity that winter on the Iberian Peninsula thrive on rumour and speculation, they tell these tales so often they start to believe them.Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Don Madge - 2007-07-20 8:12 PM Brian, Once again we are getting people posting their opinions as facts. The English motorhome fraternity that winter on the Iberian Peninsula thrive on rumour and speculation, they tell these tales so often they start to believe them. Don Not just MH'ers either Don. A lot of ex-pats are living in france and driving round in UK registered vehicle illegally. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Basil - 2007-07-20 6:00 PM Hi Brian, I believe you will find that Ralph may be correct now regarding the insurance. It used to be possible to suspend or reduce insurance to fire and theft only as you are no doubt aware, however this is no longer possible I am told due to the Police National Database. The reason I was given is that once an insurance is suspended from road use it is removed from the PND and cannot be reinstated under the same policy. Bas That wasn't quite the point I was trying to make, Basil. What I was trying to get at, was that there is nothing to prevent you cancelling your insurance if you SORN the vehicle. That will leave the vehicle uninsured, but since it will now show as SORN'd, it will be perfectly legally off the road. If you then want to insure it, you need a different kind of insurance, not vehicle insurance. You wouldn't be insuring it for road use, so you don't want any of the Road Traffic Acts cover (Third Party cover, basically) because it doesn't present any of those risks. All you want is fire, theft and accidental damage cover, a bit like house insurance. Whether you can get this I don't know, but even if you can, I doubt the cost, in conjunction with the cost of taking out and then cancelling annual vehicle insurance, would make this worthwhile. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I can see the point about being able to drop the RTA third party bit, and then reinsate it later, being a bit dodgy, since the database record would be unlikely to show how the vehicle had been insured, just that it was insured. That might leave people driving around with fire and theft cover, and no third party cover, but still showing as insured. I guess that is the reason you now have just the two options, keep it insured or cancel the insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hi, It used to be (still?) a ploy to tax a HGV as PLG in the UK, and argue that the truck did not carry goods in the UK, and the driver had only come home for the weekend, and was using it privately. That was correct in the UK, but if the vehicle was illegal to carry goods in the UK, it would also be illegal for it to carry goods in EU. Er....my info is 20 years out of date. Classic car owners are able to get "LAID UP" cover, but I don't know the conditions attached. However, I understand that it is cheap. Try Firebond. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Ralph - 2007-07-20 7:59 PM davenewell@home - 2007-07-20 6:51 PM I don't understand that at all Basil, simply because I have a motor traders policy Not quite the same thing Dave. You are in effect doing the same as I would be if I sold vehicle A and changed to vehicle B on the same policy. What we are saying is that you can't keep a policy going and downgrade it to F&T, presumably because that policy already covers RTA? Actually Ralph it is EXACTLY the same thing. I can add a car to my insurance simply by logging on to the insurers database, then in say a month or so I can log in and delete it. A month later I could log in and add it again. Each time I add or delete a vehicle the insurers then update the PND from the details I submit. This is all done on one policy and proves that a vehicle can be added or deleted from a policy irrespective of the PND. I accept that mine is a business insurance policy but Basils comment was that it was not possible to reinstate a vehicle on the same policy after it had been downgraded. Its a bit different if the policy has been cancelled though as after that popint the policy in question no longer exists in law and therefore a new policy will be required. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 davenewell@home - 2007-07-20 6:51 PM I don't understand that at all Basil, simply because I have a motor traders policy and I have to log into my insurers database to amend the details of any vehicles I own at any time that I might change them. For example I've recently bought a Rover 420 and taken my work van off the road so I logged on and amended their database to record the Rovers details and take the van off it. They then update the PND system from the information I submit and I can do this as often as needed. D. Hi Dave, I can only quote from my own experience of the last few days and what I have been informed by my insurance company and the documentation they have sent me, which included a letter laying out the circumstances for the Police and accepting responsibility by Special Delivery. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 can anyone explain to me what it is my M/H should be ?. Yesterday i taxed it because we will be out of the country at the end of the month when it runs out . On the paper it said HGV when i got to the counter the girl said that's cheap. She then wrote on the disc HGV/PLG ?. The paper states 2 Axel Rigid Body 3850KG Gross Private HGV Heavy OIL 2800cc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hi Michelle, My understanding is yours is a Private HGV, with its lower Excise License and with the relevent speed restrictions. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Hi Bas, not arguing with you mate, just trying to clear up a point thats all. I suspect the big difference is your policy had been canceled and therefore could not be reinstated as the same policy. I assume they simply started a new policy with the same details. My point was simply that vehicle details can be altered on the same policy and so the level of cover should be able to be altered accordingly and the PND makes no difference to this, in fact I thikn it is a red herring thrown in by someone within the insurance company who new no better and so gave you that answer. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Basil, What????? speed restrictions ? please explain how fast I am allowed to go and what if any lane must I stick to ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 W3526602 - 2007-07-21 9:39 AM Classic car owners are able to get "LAID UP" cover, but I don't know the conditions attached. However, I understand that it is cheap. Try Firebond. 602 Good man John! That's exactly the sort of insurance I was trying to describe. Can't imagine why it would matter if the vehicle is a classic car or a motorhome, the risks would be around the same for a given address, leaving the insured value as the main determinant of the premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 michele - 2007-07-21 2:12 PM Basil, What????? speed restrictions ? please explain how fast I am allowed to go and what if any lane must I stick to ? Michele You really need to check this for yourself, because if any if it is wrong it'll affect your license! However, I've pasted this in from an earlier post by John Fletcher (flicka) which I believe is currently correct for UK roads/vehicles. You'll have to check the unladen weight of yours at a weighbridge, since any fixtures you've added (awning etc) will count, and the manufacturer's catalogue data is notoriously inaccurate, and subject to variation from time to time."Passenger vehicle or Motor caravan with unladen weight up to 3.05 tonne & / or up to 8 passengers in addition to the Driver, as:- Single carriageway = 60mph, Dual Carriageway = 70mph, Motorway =70mph. Passenger vehicle or Motor caravan with unladen weight over 3.05 tonne & / or more than 8 passengers in addition to the Driver , but < 12metres long as:- Single carriageway = 50mph, Dual Carriageway = 60mph, Motorway =70mph. Passenger vehicle or Motor caravan with unladen weight over 3.05 tonne & / or more than 8 passengers in addition to the Driver , but >12metres long as:- Single carriageway = 50mph, Dual Carriageway = 60mph, Motorway =60mph. Passenger vehicle or Motor caravan towing a Caravan or other Trailer Single carriageway = 50mph, Dual Carriageway = 60mph, Motorway =60mph." I think it is the plated MAM that governs permitted maximum speeds in Europe generally, and I'm fairly sure you'll have to keep to a maximum of 90kph on German autobahnen and may have to stay out of the left (overtaking) lane either at all times, or at certain defined times. Because yours is over 3,500Kg it is regarded as an HGV in most, if not all, of Europe and will be likely to be subject to the HGV speed limits.These vary a bit country by country, so you'll need to check what is current for the countries you intend visiting. Be aware that many regulations changed on 1/1/07, so you'll need something up to date to be cartain. I think a copy of the Caravan Clubs "Caravan Europe 1" might be the best starting place, as that does France Spain and Portugal in some detail, but has a general section giving less detailed information on other European countries as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Brian, Motorhomes over 3500kg in Germany is 100ks not 90 on the autobahn. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-07-21 2:05 PM Hi Bas, not arguing with you mate, just trying to clear up a point thats all. I suspect the big difference is your policy had been canceled and therefore could not be reinstated as the same policy. I assume they simply started a new policy with the same details. My point was simply that vehicle details can be altered on the same policy and so the level of cover should be able to be altered accordingly and the PND makes no difference to this, in fact I thikn it is a red herring thrown in by someone within the insurance company who new no better and so gave you that answer. D. Hi Dave, I'm sure your not. You are probably quite correct, but like I said I can only say what has just occured with my stupid company and what they have told me. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Hi Brian, I don't think there is any difference between Classics and Campers, it just that brokers who specialise in Classics advertise that they offer LAID UP cover...and will probably offer it for Campers too. They also do Limited Milage down to about 1000 miles per year. There is also a company who will insure you by the day, but rather expensive pro-rata. For example, £10 for one day can be lived with, for 30 days there has to be a better way. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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