Ford Duetto. Where is the Jack? Can someone help?

[Mick the Miller]

We have just become first time motorhome owners, having bought a 1996 N reg Ford Duetto. We would like to check the spare wheel for condition but are unable to find the jack and the winding tool that releases the wheel from underneath the chassis. Can anyone please advise where this should be? We have looked both internal an external with no success.

We are also looking for a Duetto handbook or a photocopy, any suggestions to where we might get one? Thanks

[michele]

Mick,

Not sure if they have a personal space so to speak .

In ours its just wrapped in its own special bag that came with the van and it is sited behind the drivers chair..not hidden anywhere.

You think yours maybe missing!

[the tortoise]

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=42&sid=f91cfb800f8e74e047959246c041a245

 

When I had my Autosleeper I found lots of info on the above website.

[g4oip]

When you find it throw it away and put a trolley jack in the tool kit.

Alec

[Dave Newell]

g4oip - 2007-07-20 11:05 AM

 

When you find it throw it away and put a trolley jack in the tool kit.

Alec

 

I'd agree with this regarding the jack but don't throw the handle away 'cos you'll need it to lower the spare out of its holder.

 

Why not ask whoever you bought the 'van from, whether it was a private sale or from a trader they might just know where it is and have the handbook.

 

D.

[Jana]

From memory when we had our beige Duetto the jack was in a bag under the drivers seat.

In the new shape Duetto it has a purpose built home in the drivers footwell.

[evans88]

Expert advises using a trolley jack. A trolley jack in a Duetto. You must be joking given that storage is at such a premium. Not very "expert" expert.

[Derek Uzzell]

As Jana advises, the jack + handle will have been provided in a black 'leatherette' bag by Ford and there's no dedicated space within the vehicle to store it.

 

Try looking in the gas-locker: otherwise ask whoever you bought the Duetto from, as it's pretty common for essential bits and pieces to go missing inadvertently when motorhomes change hands.

[Mel B]

evans88 - 2007-07-20 6:59 PM

 

Expert advises using a trolley jack. A trolley jack in a Duetto. You must be joking given that storage is at such a premium. Not very "expert" expert.

 

Hey! Don't be rude!!!!! Not everyone carries loads of stuff around - some may regard a trolley jack as essential kit, other not, but there's no need to be rude about it. :-|

[Jana]

Lol I thought the idea of a trolley jack in a Duetto highly amusing as presumably they are not aware of how tight storage is and stubbing your toe on a trolley jack does not appeal to me.

But seriously though how many people actually check whether they can get to the spare wheel. OH tried within a week of getting each van, no problem on the new vehicle but on our previous 5 yr old Duetto it was worth the effort.

[fred grant]

Where is jack?

 

dont want to sound stupid after all you forum members kind mostly advice, but as anyone checked the drivers seat.

 

IS JACK STILL SITTING THERE.

 

just a thought as i knows sum of you members do jump the gun sumtimes.

 

hideawayfred

[Derek Uzzell]

Jana:

 

Being a Wise Virgin (Well, 50% of that's true!) I always check when I buy a new vehicle what changing its wheels involves. That's how I discovered that, to all intents and purposes, it was impossible with my Hobby to remove/replace the spare-wheel and to change a rear wheel with the tools provided with the motorhome and using the jacking method specified by Ford.

 

General:

 

As far as Mick's Duetto is concerned, it should, in theory, be straightforward to change front or rear wheels using the standard Ford jack. I used to be able to do it with my significantly larger and heavier 1997 Herald Templar, though changing rear wheels was a swine due to limited clearance within the wheel-arches (a fairly common problem with coachbuilt motorhomes).

 

I think I recall a long-ago letter in MMM saying that the spare-wheel raising and lowering mechanism on Duetto was somehow special and, if it went wrong, was not easily available from a Ford dealership. It's certainly possible for the hinged 'retainer' that goes through the spare-wheel centre to rust solid, thus preventing the wheel from being removed from its lifting cable. (Very bad news if you need to change a wheel in an emergency.) I've also been told that the shaped end of the jack-handle that connects with the spare-wheel lifting/lowering 'winch' on these Transits is sometimes a very bad match - too large and it won't go in, too small and it slips badly. So it would definitely be worth Mick doing a trial wheel-change once he's obtained the necessary tools.

 

It may still be possible to obtain a handbook for a 1996 Transit via a Ford dealer and Auto-Sleepers (or the Auto Sleeper Owners Club) may be able to provide a copy of the conversion handbook.

[Dave Newell]

evans88 - 2007-07-20 6:59 PM

 

Expert advises using a trolley jack. A trolley jack in a Duetto. You must be joking given that storage is at such a premium. Not very "expert" expert.

 

You can buy a decent small trolley jack now in a plastic case that is quite compact, around 18" by 6", for around £20. I actually carry a six Tonne bottle jack in my motorhome as the small trolley jack struggles to reach enough height. I assume you were referring to me with the comment about "expert" advice but I would point out that it is the forum that allocates these titles and they are related to the number of postings made, not any measure of ability or knowledge.

 

For what its worth I did carry a small trolley jack in my previous 'vans though, and all three were panel vans, Last one was a Freight Rover 310 home conversion, and the previous two were short wheelbase Bedford CFs. Out of interest I've just measured that self same jack (I still use it at work), its 19" long, 8" wide and 5" high when closed, max lift is 14" and it can lift 2.5 Tonnes.

 

D.

[evans88]

evans88 - 2007-07-20 6:59 PM

 

Expert advises using a trolley jack. A trolley jack in a Duetto. You must be joking given that storage is at such a premium. Not very "expert" expert.

 

Sorry about the above. Did not intend to be rude as has been suggested. Our storage space in our Duetto is at such a premium that before embarking on our twice yearly two month foreign trips we even weigh up the pros and cons of taking an extra sweatshirt let alone a trolley jack. In my Duetto (2002) the standard jack is incorporated in a special footwell housing at the driver's door.

 

[Thai Bry]

Dave Newell - 2007-07-20 12:04 PM

g4oip - 2007-07-20 11:05 AM When you find it throw it away and put a trolley jack in the tool kit. Alec

I'd agree with this regarding the jack but don't throw the handle away 'cos you'll need it to lower the spare out of its holder. Why not ask whoever you bought the 'van from, whether it was a private sale or from a trader they might just know where it is and have the handbook. D.

Dave

Could you or anyone give me some advice please.

As you know we have a Merc 416 van, plated at 4.6tons.

I'm not too sure about the strength of the jack supplied with the van. I'm lucky in that the garage can hold over 1500Kg's - it will never ever be full.

My question is "what would be an ideal small trolley jack for my vehicle."?? I'm assuming that I do not need to go out an industrial one.

Thanks in anticipation and for anyone else who gives me some info.

Thai

[Dave Newell]

Hi Bry, the jack supplied with Mercs is usually a hydraulic bottle jack and will certainly be man enough to lift one corner of your 'van. I'd suggest you carry a piece of one inch thick timber about a foot square to place the jack on when on soft ground or else the jack will simply disappear into the ground under your van. The big advantage of a trolley jack is it has a bigger base area and is therefore more stable but as long as you chock the other wheels, and only use the jack when on flat level ground (same applies to a trolley jack really) then your bottle jack will do the job perfectly well. If you do want a trolley jack its going to have to be a largish one as it needs to be able to lift half the plated weight of the rear axle plus a good bit more for safety factor, this means you're going to need a big old lump of a trolley jack ideally.

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

evans88 - 2007-07-20 6:59 PM Expert advises using a trolley jack. A trolley jack in a Duetto. You must be joking given that storage is at such a premium. Not very "expert" expert.

The title "expert" isn't chosen by the poster, it is "awarded" by the website based upon the number of posts submitted.  It is therefore unreasonable to attack people for being so labelled, even if you don't agree with them. 

I think all you were saying was that a Duetto doesn't provide much storage space to transport a trolley jack, so a bottle jack may be more practical?

[Thai Bry]

Dave Newell - 2007-07-21 2:19 PM Hi Bry, the jack supplied with Mercs is usually a hydraulic bottle jack and will certainly be man enough to lift one corner of your 'van. I'd suggest you carry a piece of one inch thick timber about a foot square to place the jack on when on soft ground or else the jack will simply disappear into the ground under your van. The big advantage of a trolley jack is it has a bigger base area and is therefore more stable but as long as you chock the other wheels, and only use the jack when on flat level ground (same applies to a trolley jack really) then your bottle jack will do the job perfectly well. If you do want a trolley jack its going to have to be a largish one as it needs to be able to lift half the plated weight of the rear axle plus a good bit more for safety factor, this means you're going to need a big old lump of a trolley jack ideally. D.

Dave

Thanks very much for your advice. Will stay with the bottle jack, and upon your advice I've now added the wood plinth, so you've saved me on 2 things.

Extra weight, as the wood is very light in the garage, and more importantly - MONEY!!

Thanks once again.

Thai

[davenewellhome]

You're welcome Bry, I'd suggest you try jacking one side of the rear axle up with the jack as if you were going to change a wheel, if you can, try it on slightly softer ground to make sure your wooden plinth is up to the job. Finding out its too weak when you're stuck on a camping field with a flat just aint funny. If you ever need to change a wheel while on a tarmac surface other than the highway I'd suggest using the plinth as well. Jacks have been known ti dig in to thinner tarmac as often found in driveways.

 

D.

[Don Madge]

Just a tip I learnt many years ago.

 

With the construction of some motorhomes it's very difficult to position the jack under the van especially if you get a rear end puncture.

 

I've found raising the van by driving onto your levelling blocks will often give you the extra clearance you need to position the jack,

 

This system can also be used if you need a bit more height to remove the spare wheel.

 

Don

[Thai Bry]

Don Madge - 2007-07-22 9:11 AM Just a tip I learnt many years ago. With the construction of some motorhomes it's very difficult to position the jack under the van especially if you get a rear end puncture. I've found raising the van by driving onto your levelling blocks will often give you the extra clearance you need to position the jack, This system can also be used if you need a bit more height to remove the spare wheel. Don

Don

Many thanks to you for this advice.

Along with this & the advice from Dave re the jack, I'm sorted. I hope I never have to bring this advice into use, especially on the rear of my van as it has double wheels.

Thanks to you both all the same.

Thai

[michele]

Don,

Has just reminded me not to curse them levelling blocks that we take every where still in thier packet. Even if we dont use them don has just pointed out that you just never know whilst I realise that it could be never ending taking this & that on the proviso that you may need it I think this would be one thing you May be stuck without ..So thanks Don.

[Dave Newell]

Another useful little tip that is perhaps not too obvious till its too late but crack your wheel nuts loose BEFORE you jack the vehicle up.

 

D.

[alanmac]

We had an R reg Duetto and it came su[pplied with a long ( about 2' 6''),winder ( like an old starting handle ). This was inserted in a hole on the rear valance and eventually fitted onto a "nut" inboard which when unwound, lowered the wheel on a stainless steel cable. The wheel was held onto this cable by a T shaped bracket which could be tilted to one side enabling it to slip through the centre hole in the wheel and you dragged it out.

Hope this helps.

One thing, make sure you have clearance at the back to get at it as the first time I tried it I had to rewind,move forward a few feet to gain clearance. Think the jack lived under the front seat ! ! !

[Derek Uzzell]

Whatever type of jack you carry with you, it will definitely pay to experiment with how you would use it if you had to. Theory is fine, but real-world experience is far better. (Remember the Six 'P's!)

 

Like evans88's Duetto, my 2005 Transit-based Hobby has a Ford-supplied scissors-jack, jack handle and wheel-brace in a compartment in the cab's right-hand foot-well. This set of equipment is adequate for raising/removing a front wheel, but the trouble begins when accessing the spare-wheel and/or removing a rear wheel is attempted...

 

Transits traditionally have their spare-wheel on the end of a steel cable and, on 2000-onwards models, to lower/raise it you wind it down/up with either the flattened end of the wheel-brace (FWD models) or (for RWD models) employ a hinged extension incorporated into the jack-handle provided with RWD vehicles. The spare-wheel lowering/lifting mechanism on 'ordinary' FWD Transits is normally accessed through a guide hole located above the rear bumper and, for RWD Transits via a guide hole behind the right rear wheel. However, as our coachbuilt Hobby has an extended FWD platform-cab chassis that precludes the lowering/lifting mechanism being reached from the rear, Ford fit the RWD arrangement. Except (presumably because the computer system in the Ford factory in Turkey has the chassis-type recorded as a modified FWD panel van) Ford didn't provide the RWD jack-handle with hinged extension. Scrabbling underneath the motorhome revealed that it might (just) be possible to lower the spare using the wheel-brace, but you'd never be able to raise it back up. To get round this I made a 'tool' from a length of metal bar that now travels in the Hobby's gas-locker.

 

Sadly, that's not the happy ending to the Hobby wheel-changing story. According to Ford's handbook, for FWD Transit chassis up to 3000kg overall weight the rear jacking point is beneath the rear leaf spring directly in front of the rear wheel: for over 3000kg FWD chassis it's under the downwards-curving rear eye of the rear leaf spring. The Hobby is built on a 3500kg chassis and, stored within the well of the spare wheel, is a substantial cast alloy block that you must place beneath the jack to allow it to extend high enough to reach the spring's eye. There's also a flap on top of the jack that you flip over so that the spring's eye nestles comfortably on to the jack. Except the Hobby (and presumably other motorhomes using this chassis) has double rear springs with no downwards curve to their front or rear eyes! This makes life very tricky as, unless you jack close to an end of the rear spring, the rear wheel will remain trapped in the wheel arch above it. It's impossible to place the jack close to the rear end of the spring as there's nothing to engage it there and the spring slopes steeply upwards, so all that's left is to use a variant of the 'lightweight' chassis technique and jack as close as practical to the front end of the spring. Doing this produces a worrying curve in the spring as the weight comes on it, but (at least with the Hobby in unloaded state) it does allow the rear wheel to be successfully removed/replaced.

 

The result of this experimentation is that I now know that, if I needed to change a front wheel on the Hobby in an 'emergency', I'd probably have a go, but I'd probably not attempt a rear-wheel change unless I was at home and could take my time over it.

 

Regarding placing wooden 'plinths' beneath jacks to spread the load, you need to be careful what material you choose for the plinth. Even thick plank can split suddenly when subjected to the weight of a motorhome so, if possible, use thick multi-layer plywood. To provide soft-surface support for our VW Golf's jack I have a circle of plywood cut to fit handily within the spare-wheel as it sits upside-down in the car's boot. This arrangement clearly doesn't work for the Hobby, but (as it saves space and the wood circle is always conveniently available) might be worth considering where the motorhome's design permits it.

 

When I've made 'scheduled' wheel-changes on our two Transit-based coachbuilt motorhomes I've always lowered the spare-wheel on to an old smooth-backed rug that I can then drag backwards from beneath the vehicle bringing the spare-wheel with it. If you lower the spare-wheel so that the side of the tyre rests directly on the ground, it can be a helluva game wriggling the wheel out unless you've got muscles like the Incredible Hulk's.

 

Like Michele I've rarely used levelling wedges (though I've always carried them). However, on our recent trip to France when the weather had been very wet and we were parking overnight on unstabilised grassed campsite pitches sometimes, I placed the wedges beneath the Hobby's front (driven) wheels to spread the pressure. It was quite surprising to see how much the wedges (and the Hobby's rear wheels) had sunk into the grass after just one night and I could imagine how easy it was for motorcaravanners to get stuck in really muddy conditions. (I expect that using wedges in this way is something that all you experienced 'campsiters' do as second nature, which is probably why I don't recall seeing it mentioned before.)