Had Rear Spring Assisters Fitted?

[BGD]

Hi there Everyone -

 

We've recently bought a 1992 Euro Mobil on the standard Peugeot J5 2.5 litre non-turbo, diesel, chassis-cab body.

 

Great fun, but as seems to be usual for vans of this vintage, we've got the "saggy bottom" syndrome - the rear leaf springs are very tired, and actually bend up from the spring-hangers to the axle.

The van still runs fine, but as you might expect, wallows a lot on corners etc.

 

I've been looking at two possible solutions, in order to stiffen the rear suspension and improve the ride:

 

Grayston leaf spring assisters. So far as I can see, these are coiled springs that fit on top of the axles (where the leaf springs pass below the axle) and bolt to the underside of the body above).

Apparent advantages: suspension is firmed up, and rear of van is held higher. Also (relatively) cheap - about £135 inc postage within the UK. Appear reasonably easy to DIY fit - just jack up the van body so the axle hangs down, and bolt them to the axle tops, and underbody, using the fixing kit supplied by Grayston. Fit and forget.

Apparent disadvantages: spring ratio is fixed, so no possibility to adjust preload tension.

Grayston's website is: www.springassisters.co.uk

 

Air- Assisted system. A sort of rubber bellows arrangement that bolts in place as per the Grayston spring assisters, but which is then air-pressurised using valves (like tyre valves) that you can either fit through the van body above/around each rear wheel arch, or which you can run longer tubes to and fit a pressure valve/adjustment in (for example) the drivers door inner step.

I read a very good report with photos on how this system was fitted to a Motorhome from another site a couple of days ago on "Steve of Herefordshire's Motorhome/Van Build Pages" - web address: http://www.soh.me.uk/

Apparent advantages: ride height, and suspension stiffness is adjustable. You can pump up/down both sides together, or even pump up one side harder/higher than the other.

Possible disadvantages: price - the basic kits that Steve can supply are £299, and if you want pressure guages, or even the Roll's Royce option of a mini-compressor so that you can alter stiffness at the touch of a button, that will set you back a lot more.

Fitting is more involved and would normally involve drilling through bodywork (unless you could mount the air valves using cable ties perhaps).

I would also be concerned about pressure loss from the system over time, particularly is one side leaked a little more than the other.

 

I do definitely want to go with one of these two options in the coming months, but before I do, I really would appreciate hearing the reports from anyone who has actually fitted/had fitted either of these two systems to their own Motorhome:

What difference do they actually make in practice, how much better is the ride/cornering stiffness, what are the downsides (if any)....etc

 

If anyone could spare the time to share their experiences of these systems on this forum, that would be a great help!!!

 

Many thanks,

 

Bruce Dowding.

[Dave Newell]

Hi Bruce, I have air rides on my motorhome which are very similar to the ones from SOH, it is well worth the money. You can do everything Steve advises and it will almost certainly improve your ride quality and handling. Pressure loss over time? well yes mine will lose about 20 PSI over about two months but if you check them regularly when you do your tyres (you do check your tyre pressures regularly don't you?) its no problem to just top 'em up a bit if required. I run mine at around 25 PSI but the pressure required will vary with load, a heavier 'van will require more pressure but this can cause a harder ride when lightly loaded. Go for it, you won't be disappointed.

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

Just a couple of thoughts before you spend loads of dosh on either remedy.

Have you checked your laden axle loads as well as your overall laden weight at a weighbridge, and have you checked that your tyres and pressures are appropriate for the actual axle loads?  Also, have you checked the ages of your tyres, they must be colse to, if not past, their "replace by" dates, unless they have already been changed.  Remember, the spare too should to be done.

You haven't said what the mileage is, but unless the van has been kept fully laden when not in use, I'm just a bit surprised that the springs are as you describe them after 5 years.  If the van has a longish rear overhang, I'd suspect the rear axle is being, or has previously been, overloaded, and that is what is causing/has caused the tail to droop. 

If it is overloaded in normal use now, even if assisters correct its running attitude, it'll still be legally overloaded, unless the load margin for the rear axle is increased (not straightforward, if possible at all), or you redistribute loads to correct the overload at the rear. 

So, a trip to the weighbridge, if you haven't already made one, might save you quite a lot of money - and enable you to fix the tail droop problem far more cheaply, and legally, than reinforcing the suspension.

[davenewellhome]

Suggest you re-read the original post Brian, he said its a 1992 not a 2002, that makes it fifteen years old not five ;-)

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

davenewell@home - 2007-07-21 6:16 PM Suggest you re-read the original post Brian, he said its a 1992 not a 2002, that makes it fifteen years old not five ;-) D.

   Must get these glasses checked, I was sure it said 2002!  Thought the reference to a J5 was odd, and the penny still didn't drop.  Still be worth checking the laden weight, though.  Whatever its age, if it's overloaded it'll still be illegal, even with spring assisters fitted.

[davenewellhome]

Very true Brian and a worthwhile excercise anyway. J5s (also known as Talbot Express) are well known for "saggy bottom syndrome" and air assisters work wonders for the ride and handling but Brian is spot on, get the weights checked first.

 

D.

[wints]

I fitted the grayston springs to my previous van, Elddis Autoquest 320 TD, 1993 model, which was on a peugeot j5. The results were fantastic. Back of van rose about 1 1/2 inch and the springs were no longer inverted.

I borrowed a set of coil spring compressors which made the job of fitting easier.

regards

Allen

[trooper]

I think you will find that some springs should bemd upwards, it appairs to be better at various loads, I think :$

[Clive]

Or stick to the existing simple technology and vists "Midland Springs" who will make you some stiffer more up-set springs to transform your handling and cure your saggy bottom.

 

[BGD]

Thanks everyone for your replies - very useful info!!

 

Just a couple of thoughts on the posts above:

 

Yep, it's a 1992 van, not a 2002!!

 

I had heard about the complete replacement of rear leaf springs idea, but as we live in the Costa Blanca region of Spain (don't know why it doesn't say so on my posting personal details, as I've said so on my profile questionnaire when I joined this site) it's a bit of a trek (and a lot of travel expense) to drive the van to England for such a job.

Also, I had heard that the cost of actually getting a rpelacemnt, heavier-duty set made up and fitted was in the order of £500.

 

I'm unaware of any leaf-spring system that is supposed to operate with the springs bowed downwards.

Maybe there is one, but on every leaf-sprung vehicle I've ever had or ever worked on, they've worked on the bowed-up principle - where more spring leaves come into play as the bowing-up is reduced by additional weight.

I'm pretty sure that the rear leaf springs on my van (Peugeot J5, which is the same as the Citroen C25, and Talbot) are supposed to be bowed-up, but are just knackered from 15 years and 135,000 kms of carrying the motorhome body around.

 

Based on the comments from actual spring-assister users, I'm inclined now to go for the Grayston spring assister option in the coming months.

I understand that they don't give the ability to pump-up/reduce the level of assistance, but they are well under half the price of even the cheapest air-assist system, and appear easy to fit; they also seem to be fit-and-forget.

The van is sound, but is an old dog(!) so there seems to us not a lot of point in spending thousands on it.

 

All I've got to do now is get the damn things - their website quotes £135 for my van, including postage to anywhere in the UK - but Graystons have just told me by email they won't post to Spain, even if I pay the extra postage - GRRRRRR!!! (What on Earth is all that about? They really have embraced the extra sales opportunities that the world-wide internet provides......NOT!!)

So, need to think of a cunning plan to get them sent to a UK address who can them send them on.

 

Anyway, thanks again for everyones inputs.

 

Bruce.

 

 

 

 

[Dave Newell]

A lot of British traders are reluctant to send stuff abroad because of the risk of credit card fraud these days. Bear in mind that Grayston (or their agents don't know you from Adam or whether you are who you claim to be. It might sound unfair from your perspective but they are likely just covering their bums. Do you not know anyone in UK who can order them and then forward them to you?

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

Bruce

You say the van was a recent purchase.  Did you buy it in Spain and if so, is it LHD or RHD, and is it UK registered?  Dave may be right about reluctance to post direct to you due to credit card fraud possiblities, but it just occurs to me that they may be assuming yours is LHD, and possibly slightly different in specification for the Spanish market, so that their product would be unsuitable.