SandraH Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 The start up button (bottom left of the panel) has turned red; handbook says it’s because an alarm (eg, batteries, tanks etc) is on. I had just switched the tank heater on to make sure it didn’t freeze the little water left in. I have switched off the control panel & locked up the ‘van with the tank heater switch on; is that ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted November 29, 2023 Share Posted November 29, 2023 (edited) If the vehicle is not on EHU, and the tank heater remains on, then you will be discharging your habitation ("leisure") battery. I do not know the power (wattage) rating of you tank heater, but if you assume a conservative value of 24W (24 Watts), then this will draw 2A from the battery, of which the Ampere Hour capcity (Ah) is not known to me. Asuming about 96Ah, which is fairly typical, over 24 hours the 2A heater current equates to 2A x 24h = 48Ah. This is half the assumed battery capacity. Discharging a Lead Acid battery below 50% is not recommended, as it shortens the battery life. You may see this quoted as 50% DoD (Depth of Discharge). There is also the risk that if you completely discharge the battery, it could cause damage to the control panel electronics, but I think that this is more likely when the control panel has been left switched on. Alan Edited November 29, 2023 by Alanb Minor addition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 30, 2023 Share Posted November 30, 2023 18 hours ago, SandraH said: The start up button (bottom left of the panel) has turned red; handbook says it’s because an alarm (eg, batteries, tanks etc) is on. I had just switched the tank heater on to make sure it didn’t freeze the little water left in. I have switched off the control panel & locked up the ‘van with the tank heater switch on; is that ok? So there is an alarm, either battery or water tank level. I note you say you have a small quantity of water in the (presumably) fresh water tank, an were using the tank heater to prevent that freezing. Are you actually using the van at present? From your comment that you had locked the van leaving the tank heater on, I'm assuming the van is not currently in use? As Alan says, doing that when the van is not connected to mains means the only source of power for the heater is the battery (whichever feeds the tank heater) and that will fairly quickly be flattened if not on EHU. My own short term suggestions are: 1, Drain out the fresh water system. It is more likely that water will freeze in a pipe or tap, potentially causing damage, neither of which would be be prevented by the tank heater being on, than will freeze in the tank. Also, fresh water left long term in water tanks soon becomes smelly and slimy due to algal build up, which then has to be sterilised (to prevent stomach infections) before re-filling the tank (a highly desirable procedure to follow every time the van is being readied for use.) 2, Get the van on EHU as quickly as possible to try to protect the batteries from damage through being left flattened. Then, with the control panel on, check the indicated charge state of the starter battery. It it shows low charge you need to get it on charge ASAP as the (presumably) CBE charger is only designed to keep the starter battery topped up, not to re-charge it from flat. 3 Then, with the control panel on, look at the various panel symbols to see which, if any, are indicating an alarm state. As an aside, I had experience of a CBE control panel (not the one you have) which had an annoying quirk. When there was insufficient water in the tank to reach the probe rods, the control panel (correctly) "thought" the water level was low, but could not "understand" why the panel would be switched on with no water in the tank, and so activated the low water alarm. If left in that condition for an hour or so the panel would lock up and had to be reset by pulling the main 12V fuse, so leaving the panel without power, and then reinserting the fuse to re-power the panel, at which point the low water alarm would re-activate, when it was necessary to turning off the panel before it could again lock out. Whoever had designed the panel simply hadn't thought that anyone might use the van in cold weather and so turn on the panel but, to prevent the potential freezing problem, would not fill it with water. It seems possible that your van may have a similar quirk somewhere, so it might be beneficial to also check whether the small remaining quantity of water in the tank actually registers on the control panel water level indication. If not, it may simply be trying to tell you that the tank is empty and, because you haven't added water, has activated its alarm which has turned the on/off button red. However, in the short term, and before experimenting with water levels and tank probes, I think drain the tank and get van on EHU. Be interesting to see if others agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 It would help to know the make, model and age of SandraH's motorhome. Some details of the CBE PC380-ST system are here https://pitstopcamper.com/gb/cbe/14888-cbe-pc380-st-complete-system.html and there's a User Manual here https://www.manualslib.com/manual/2926005/Cbe-Pc380-St.html?page=26#manual I don't know if the "ST" suffix of the PC380-ST designator indicates that the panel is 'Standard' or bespoke to a particular make. My 2005 Hobby motorhome had a 'bespoke' CBE panel with the difference to the standard panel being that it carried a button for the Hobby's tank heaters instead of for an awning-light. It's perhaps also worth saying that the Hobby's tank heaters were for the external WASTE-WATER tank, not for the Hobby's fresh-water tank that was inside the motorhome and - I would have thought - this would be the norm. If I remember correctly, the Hobby's tank heaters were only operative when the motorhome was being driven or was on 230V hook-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said: It would help to know the make, model and age of SandraH's motorhome. Some details of the CBE PC380-ST system are here https://pitstopcamper.com/gb/cbe/14888-cbe-pc380-st-complete-system.html and there's a User Manual here https://www.manualslib.com/manual/2926005/Cbe-Pc380-St.html?page=26#manual I don't know if the "ST" suffix of the PC380-ST designator indicates that the panel is 'Standard' or bespoke to a particular make. My 2005 Hobby motorhome had a 'bespoke' CBE panel with the difference to the standard panel being that it carried a button for the Hobby's tank heaters instead of for an awning-light. It's perhaps also worth saying that the Hobby's tank heaters were for the external WASTE-WATER tank, not for the Hobby's fresh-water tank that was inside the motorhome and - I would have thought - this would be the norm. If I remember correctly, the Hobby's tank heaters were only operative when the motorhome was being driven or was on 230V hook-up. As @SandraHdoes not seem to have consulted our replies, perhaps it may nor be inappropriate to make some comments on Derek's post above, and add to the knowledge base. The 12V CBE installation in my PVC comprises principally of a PC200ih and a DS520AN. The derivation of the "ih" suffix is obvious. The "AN" suffix on the DS520 is less clear, as I have read of it being fitted by other converters. I have always taken it to denote a non converter specific variant. Derek's suggestion that the "ST" suffix on PC320 may denote "standard" is interesting. As regards controlling a tank heater supply so as to be only available with either engine running, or EHU/charger connected it is not simple. I have done something similar to supply a coolbox. The engine on part is easy, just control a relay via the simulated D+ node. The mains on part is where the problem lies. This is because the "S" signal from the charger is limited by the output diode rating of 50mA. It normally has to supply the relay controlling the mains charging of B1, and initiate the mains icon on the PCxxx. The relay has a coil resistance of 254 Ohms, which means that it takes approximately all of the available 50mA. I decide that I needed to add a low current input Darlington driver circuit to supply the coil of the relay that I was adding external to the DS520. I would not expect a converter to go to such lengths, but the are several discrete transistors? on the DSxxx boards. so perhaps a similar driver circuit is already available? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 17 hours ago, Alanb said: ...Derek's suggestion that the "ST" suffix on PC320 may denote "standard" is interesting... That's very much a guess... The PC380 panel has (at least) 3 suffixes - ST, BS or KT. (Apparently) the PC380-ST is matched with a DS300-ST Distribution Box, while the PC380-BS and PC380-KT are both matched to a DS520-AN Distribution Box. As I read the User Manual, there are four 'alarms' that MIGHT cause the control-panel's ON/OFF button to go red. These are Unlike the CBE control-panel fitted to my 2005 Hobby motorhome, I don't think any of the PC380 control-panel variants has a dedicated button to turn on water-tank heaters. So I assume that, on SandraH's motorhome, the water-heater switch is separate from the control-panel. This link is to a YouTube video explaining how to use a CBE PC380 control-panel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxEw_UHT7M4 and about 1.25 minutes into the video the panel's ON/OFF button turns from green to red because (in this case) the motorhome's fresh-water tank is empty. The green-to-red colour-change is accompanied by a flashing warning symbol showing that it's an empty fresh-water tank that has triggered the alarm. So, if SandraH has drained the motorhome's fresh-water tank, after turning its PC380 control-panel on the panel's ON/OFF button will illuminate green initially and, after a few seconds, turn red - which is exactly what should happen when the fresh-water tank has been emptied. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Somehow or other the text below has duplicated from earlier in the posting and I can't get rid off it .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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