Rodents in motorhome

[Deffheads]

On a few occasions we have had both rats and mice inside our motorhome whilst staying long term on sites, latest occurrence was while on a seasonal pitch in Dorset. We have now put the van in storage, last week setting traps and poison bait, returned today and found 1 mouse in a trap.

My question is, does the bait attract visitors or is the scent of previous vermin the reason they come in? There is no food stuff in the van.

Suggestions please how to stop invaders, No peppermint oil or electronic gizmos.

[onecal]

Hi ,

To stop the invaders as you say , find where the are coming in , block that off first 

Regards 

[laimeduck]

1 hour ago, Deffheads said:

On a few occasions we have had both rats and mice inside our motorhome whilst staying long term on sites, latest occurrence was while on a seasonal pitch in Dorset. We have now put the van in storage, last week setting traps and poison bait, returned today and found 1 mouse in a trap.

My question is, does the bait attract visitors or is the scent of previous vermin the reason they come in? There is no food stuff in the van.

Suggestions please how to stop invaders, No peppermint oil or electronic gizmos.

You are going to get many old wives tales in your answers ... but as an ex professional Field Biologist I will answer with facts.

Yes baits attract .. that's how they work. Avoid if you can but they have their uses. If you don't have a problem do not use bait!

Yes rodents leave scent trails (pheromones) which are followed by other rodents. (All rodents have very poor eyesight and move mainly by smell and by touch and a system called kinesthesis... muscle memory, so they have preferred routes. (Rather like a blind person)

So keep cupboards and surfaces clean to break the pheromone trails

If you can slide a pencil into a gap (a gap not a hole!) an adult mouse will be able to squeeze through that gap. So if you are going to try to block entry points that is the scale of proofing that is required. Don't block holes with anything they can chew because they will! They have to chew stuff to keep their teeth short and sharp. You can block temporarily with wire wool ... more permanently with wire mesh ...like bird feeder mesh.

Treadle type break back traps are most effective in a motorhome ... but place them next to a vertical surface not in the middle of a floor.  Remember, a mouse moves by smell and touch so will usually keep close to walls. You do not need to bait them if they are placed correctly. If you do bait them put on a smear of peanut butter, not cheese .. mice really don't eat cheese much .. that's just Tom and Jerry!

(Unless you can inspect them daily you should never use so called "humane" traps ... they are not humane and it is technically illegal to use them without inspecting them twice a day!)

I had a mouse get in to our van in the South of France. I caught him within 5 minutes with a trap made from un upturned ice cream container, a pin and a length of cotton thread tied to a bit of Grissini. He or she, went for a trip in the local wood about half a mile down towards the beach!

Jeremy

Edited December 20, 2023 by laimeduck

[John52]

When rodent damage to motorhome wiring may have happened over a period, ,

'Aviva, declared that, as the damage must have happened over a period, it would be treated as seven incidents and seven separate claims. Each claim involves a £400 excess payment.'

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/dec/20/help-a-rat-ate-my-car-and-its-costing-me-thousands

[Deffheads]

Having read replies, I cannot find where they enter, so do I leave the poison bait in or remove and rely on traps or remove everything and hope for the best/

[onecal]

I think the best thing is to find  the invaders entry and block them  Regarding wiring issue damage , That's even more tricky to deal with . You should see the damage the cause in some of the new electric cars. They really love that wiring. Anyway try your best to find the invaders entry point or points and lock them out 

Regards 

[laimeduck]

3 hours ago, Deffheads said:

Having read replies, I cannot find where they enter, so do I leave the poison bait in or remove and rely on traps or remove everything and hope for the best/

Deffheads

I think the answers were in my post. BUT without full detail it is difficult to advise?

Where is the van stored? On grass, on gravel/ tarmac? Near woods? In a building? On a farm?  Why are there mice in the area? Animal foodstuffs in the vicinity?

If they are active inside  your van now then use baits and traps But as soon as you see no more evidence of them remove the baits.

Depending on the location It may be effective to place baits in special tamper resistant bait stations in the proximity of the van but not near it. i.e. kill the critters before they get near your van. On a farm or open ground though this may nor be feasible. You must ensure that only the target species eg mice can access your baits.

You will never find all the access points. To suggest that you can proof all entry points is unhelpful in my view. There are just too many hidden gaps in a complex vehicle that are inaccessible. In my experience wiring is only damaged when there is a long term and fairly heavy infestation.

So inspect often and use baits only when a problem is evident. 

Jeremy

Edited December 20, 2023 by laimeduck

[John52]

7 hours ago, laimeduck said:

You will never find all the access points. To suggest that you can proof all entry points is unhelpful in my view. There are just too many hidden gaps in a complex vehicle that are inaccessible. In my experience wiring is only damaged when there is a long term and fairly heavy infestation.

Indeed there are   Having fitted out new X2/50 & X2/90 vans from scratch I have seen many drain and  ventilation holes leading in to box sections where rodents could enter, run along, and come out somewhere else inside the van.  So, even in a steel van trying to find and block off all the entry points after the van has been fitted out would be impractical.  Even if you could find them all, blocking up drain and ventilation holes would give you a bigger problem. With a coach built made of materials they can chew through, it would be effectively impossible.  And if you could do it you might be sealing rodents in, along with the damp and gas/diesel cooker/heater fumes

PS: Sorry for criticising other people's ideas when I don't have any to add myself.  No easy quick fixes to rodent infestation are there.  If there were it wouldn't be such a widespread problem.

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by John52

[John52]

PS don't do what I did and cover a seat with a sheet to protect it from dust.  (The factory fitted dual passenger seat I took out and stored in a garage where there was also bird food they could access ) Rodents nested under the sheet and carried the bird food across the garage to it.

[onecal]

Hi

I think the best thing is to find  the invaders entry and block them  Regarding wiring issue damage , That's even more tricky to deal with . You should see the damage the cause in some of the new electric cars. They really love that wiring. Anyway try your best to find the invaders entry point or points and lock them out  It is not that difficult if the van is indeed well built to ensure all gaps are filled correctly and thus ensuring no access to mice or rats .On the wiring note , that's a different matter and indeed a new major problem with new wiring in many new vehicles This is very prevalent in new electric vehicles  Some are trying different tape wraps around the wiring to prevent the smell attraction to the little invaders.

Regards 

Edited December 21, 2023 by onecal

[colin]

I would note that it's not a EV problem, it's due to manufacturing the insulation from vegetable products, IIRC it was Nissan who first had the problem 20 years ago. 

[onecal]

Hi 

It still goes on and I am afraid is causing a lot of problems , Hopefully a fix will be found 

Regards

[laimeduck]

4 hours ago, colin said:

I would note that it's not a EV problem, it's due to manufacturing the insulation from vegetable products, IIRC it was Nissan who first had the problem 20 years ago. 

Way... way... before that Colin!

It is not the composition per see of the cable, more the texture. Rats and mice don't eat it, they simply chew it. They have been chewing everything since time immemorial and electric cables since they were invented (1800's?).

The word "Rodent" comes from the Greek, "to gnaw". They have to gnaw stuff to keep their incisor teeth sharp. They are chisel shaped, with the front surface made of hard enamel and the rear softer dentine. The teeth grow constantly. When they gnaw the teeth are therefore kept sharp AND they are kept short. If they didn't gnaw, then the teeth grow round in a circle rather like boars tusks and the animal will starve. (Same in rabbits).

If you really want to know more there is info on this site https://www.nc3rs.org.uk/3rs-resources/malocclusion-mice

Jeremy

[onecal]

Hi

Well they definitely love the smell of the new wiring in vehicles especially some of the new electric cars They simply destroy it . Defiantly keeping their teeth short and sharp for sure 

Regards      

Edited December 21, 2023 by onecal

[Keithl]

I believe modern car wiring uses a soy based insulation and this is why the rodents find it more attractive than the old plastic/PVC wiring which did not taste as good!

[colin]

50 minutes ago, Keithl said:

I believe modern car wiring uses a soy based insulation and this is why the rodents find it more attractive than the old plastic/PVC wiring which did not taste as good!

As this, I wasn't saying rodents haven't always gnawed wiring, but the issue has been made worse by the composition. My nabours BMW Mini was written off after standing unused for a few months, it would have needed a complete wiring loom, which due to age wasn't worth doing.

[onecal]

Hi 

They are indeed soy based and they love it . Hopefully the manufactures will find away around this very costly problem  soon 

Regards

[Keithl]

Honda has found a solution, not cheap but probably cheaper then repairing the damage caused!

https://www.honda.wales/estore/GENUINE-HONDA-RODENT-TAPE-19MM-x-20METRES-p147716010

And some comical reading about it https://haterade.substack.com/p/i-tasted-hondas-spicy-rodent-repelling

[Tracker]

Thanks Jeremy for the insights into rodential habits - very informative - you learn something new every day!

[MikeF]

Lower cost than Honda for the tape,

https://www.motoelectrical.co.uk/product/anti-rodent-electrical-tape/

[Brian Kirby]

2 hours ago, Tracker said:

Thanks Jeremy for the insights into rodential habits - very informative - you learn something new every day!

I know (Liz Truss voiceover! 🙂; all that worries me is how he ever came to know so much about rodent gnawing habits!  I'm now beginning to question my scepticism about reincarnation!  Strange things happen down on the Marsh!  😄 

[laimeduck]

2 hours ago, Brian Kirby said:

I know (Liz Truss voiceover! 🙂; all that worries me is how he ever came to know so much about rodent gnawing habits!  I'm now beginning to question my scepticism about reincarnation!  Strange things happen down on the Marsh!  😄 

Degree in Biochemisty at Manchester 1969/72 Trained as a PhD Research Biochemist in Max Plank Institute Tubingen, then State University of New York at Buffalo, then University of Massachusetts Medical School in Worcester, then Worcester Polytechnic Institute. Joined Rentokil as Field Biologist 1977, then Quality Assurance Specialist, then set up my own consultancy business 1996 until retirement in 2014/5.

So 50+ years experience of dealing with the science of pests ....but none so bad as those on forums (fora?)

Jeremy

Edited December 29, 2023 by laimeduck

[Brian Kirby]

2 hours ago, laimeduck said:

Degree in Biochemisty at Manchester 1969/72 Trained as a PhD Research Biochemist in Max Plank Institute Tubingen, then State University of New York at Buffalo, then University of Massachusetts Medical School in Worcester, then Worcester Polytechnic Institute. Joined Rentokil as Field Biologist 1977, then Quality Assurance Specialist, then set up my own consultancy business 1996 until retirement in 2014/5.

So 50+ years experience of dealing with the science of pests ....but none so bad as those on forums (fora?)

Jeremy

Thanks for that, Jeremy.  That is a very impressive CV.  Re fora or forums, I gather both are generally acceptable, the former being the correct Latin plural, and the latter being the accepted Anglicised equivalent.

[John52]

On 21/12/2023 at 11:16, onecal said:

I think the best thing is to find  the invaders entry and block them

If you have a standalone masonry building you may be able walk around the outside, see where they might get in, and block it off easily.  So for a detached house that would be good advice.  So they probably say that in a textbook.

But there are too many hidden points of entry into a motorhome to be able to do that.

I know from my own memory of working in supermarkets the standalone detached ones were apparently free of rodents.

But the ones attached to other buildings - like in a row of old shops, were all infested with rodents.  It was a huge intractable problem but, of course, we didn't advertise it.  They had a contract with Rentokil who tried all sorts of things that probably reduced the infestation. But they couldn't stop it because the rodents could get in and out from the other shops either side.

[laimeduck]

I would put my money on the little critters every time. Cunning little survivors perfectly adapted over 1000's of years to exploit human behaviour. As usual it is mans fault that they cause a problem - we give them what they want:-

Commensal rodents need just four things to survive. A source of food and water; somewhere dry to live (shelter) ..... and another mouse or rat!.

The house mouse (Mus musculus), Norway rat (Rattus norvegicus), and ships rat (Rattus rattus) are the main rodent species categorized as commensal. All are responsible for several problems. Rodents often gnaw through almost any material, including lead and cement, causing expensive structural damages; they also are considered as causes of fires when they gnaw on electrical wires. Rodents spoil food, partially eating and discarding it, and they spoil agricultural crops.