Dethleffs - Leisure Battery wont charge on 240V

[mattamyg]

Hi, I have a Dethleffs Globetrotter, Advantage 5831. Its 1995, LHD, on a Ducato. The leisure battery has always been great, then it went flat and would not recharge on 240v, i.e. when camper plugged into mains. I took this to be a failure of the leisure battery, I am unsure of its age. I then fitted another LB that was 2 years old, and in good condition. It was not fully charged when fitted. This has also failed to charge. When I tested voltage at the LB terminals, there was 0 volts, should this show 12-14v, so as to charge the battery? would a flat battery not charge? In the manual its states that the transformer/rectifier is under the passenger seat, I cant see it, the LB is under the drivers seat. There is a 'finned' section, could it be behind this?

 

Thanks for any help

 

Regards

 

Matt

 

[Globetrotter]

Hi Matt

I have a Dethleffs A class of 1995 vintage, so I suspect our vans may be similar. Firstly, I would replace your leisure battery with a new one to rule that out-a dodgy battery wont hold a charge anyway. My charger system is fitted under the dashboard on the right side (Passenger on a LHD.) The charging system incorporates several fuses and I suspect you have either a fuse or wiring problem. Firstly, go to the engine battery-there should be a reasonably thick black wire coming off the positive terminal and going through the bulkhead-this is the charger connection for the whole leisure system, i.e. mains and alternator charging. It also carries the charge to charge the engine battery when on mains, so as you can see, it's the link to the whole system! Check the connection to the battery and remake it if in ANY doubt. Follow the wire and it should go to a very large maxi blade fuse in the engine bay. Remove this and check all its contacts, and of course if its blown, replace it! Now move inside and next to the LB under the drivers seat is another one of those fuses-same procedure with that one. Then check the wire that runs from that to the leisure battery-again, remake the connection.

This lot should rule out wiring/fuses as at fault. If this doesnt cure it, your charger may be faulty. To access, remove the lower part of the dash on your passenger side. It is a black box, with wiring plugs going into it. I'm not sure if these are repairable here in the UK-they are made by Cramer in Germany and I have had no luck in contacting them. It should however be possible to order a replacement through any Dethleffs dealer here in the UK. I can't think it would be cheap though......

Good luck, and let us know how you get on?

[crinklystarfish]

0 volts across the terminals? Is this with the leisure battery connected to the domestic circuits?, and with or without the AC supply going into the 'van? i.e. is it 0 volts when it should be charging from the mains?

How did you conclude that the 2 year old battery was a 'good' one, what voltage did it show across the terminals before you put it in the 'van?

Edit:

Above post appeared whilst this post in preparation.

[dethleff]

Globetrotter - 2007-08-01 9:45 AM

 

Hi Matt

I have a Dethleffs A class of 1995 vintage, so I suspect our vans may be similar. Firstly, I would replace your leisure battery with a new one to rule that out-a dodgy battery wont hold a charge anyway. My charger system is fitted under the dashboard on the right side (Passenger on a LHD.) The charging system incorporates several fuses and I suspect you have either a fuse or wiring problem. Firstly, go to the engine battery-there should be a reasonably thick black wire coming off the positive terminal and going through the bulkhead-this is the charger connection for the whole leisure system, i.e. mains and alternator charging. It also carries the charge to charge the engine battery when on mains, so as you can see, it's the link to the whole system! Check the connection to the battery and remake it if in ANY doubt. Follow the wire and it should go to a very large maxi blade fuse in the engine bay. Remove this and check all its contacts, and of course if its blown, replace it! Now move inside and next to the LB under the drivers seat is another one of those fuses-same procedure with that one. Then check the wire that runs from that to the leisure battery-again, remake the connection.

This lot should rule out wiring/fuses as at fault. If this doesnt cure it, your charger may be faulty. To access, remove the lower part of the dash on your passenger side. It is a black box, with wiring plugs going into it. I'm not sure if these are repairable here in the UK-they are made by Cramer in Germany and I have had no luck in contacting them. It should however be possible to order a replacement through any Dethleffs dealer here in the UK. I can't think it would be cheap though......

Good luck, and let us know how you get on?

 

Well that saves me typing the same as above, spot on.

 

Just to add. Vanbitz moved my charger to under the passenger seat, said it was getting too hot in the position under the dash. they also said if the charger was faulty the could fit a similar charger, without the need to source.

one from Germany

 

1995 Dethleff A501

[mattamyg]

I suppose that the first thing is to check the LB, I thought that when connected to the domestic supply the voltage across the LB terminals would show some voltage, they were 0v when connected or disconnected from the battery terminals. I have checked the blade fuses next the LB (x2) and they are fine, the next job will be to check the charger under the dash, I dont know if is there, I assume you know! I have not noticed it but have never looked! could it be behind under the passenger seat behind the metal 'fins' or is this just the design of the seat? I only had a quick look on the way to work. The other thing to mention is that the LB warning light, normally orange or green when plugged in is flashing red, its had been on 240 mains for at least 12 hours and was still flashing this am.

 

The 2nd LB i fitted was a 2 year old one that was fine before it was removed from my granddads caravan a few months ago, I supopose that this could be shot, surely there should some power to the LB terminals though? nothing in the 12v system is working, even on mains power...arrrrghhhh!

 

Thanks for your help so far,

 

Matt

[dethleff]

mattamyg - 2007-08-01 10:23 AM

 

I suppose that the first thing is to check the LB, I thought that when connected to the domestic supply the voltage across the LB terminals would show some voltage, they were 0v when connected or disconnected from the battery terminals. I have checked the blade fuses next the LB (x2) and they are fine, the next job will be to check the charger under the dash, I dont know if is there, I assume you know! I have not noticed it but have never looked! could it be behind under the passenger seat behind the metal 'fins' or is this just the design of the seat? I only had a quick look on the way to work. The other thing to mention is that the LB warning light, normally orange or green when plugged in is flashing red, its had been on 240 mains for at least 12 hours and was still flashing this am.

 

The 2nd LB i fitted was a 2 year old one that was fine before it was removed from my granddads caravan a few months ago, I supopose that this could be shot, surely there should some power to the LB terminals though? nothing in the 12v system is working, even on mains power...arrrrghhhh!

 

Thanks for your help so far,

 

Matt

 

It needs more than a quick look before you go to work

Dump your grandads battery its shot.

 

Read globetrotters post again, read where it says "remake" connections to the fuses found under the bonnet next to the positive terminal on your starter battery.The same goes for the fuse connection under the driving seat.

 

get your original LB. recharge using a battery charger.

Then if you still have a problem, then look to the regulater under the dash.

[mattamyg]

Thanks everyone. I have old (original) on charge, it will have been on around 16 hours when I get to it. I will redo the fuses and then check everything, I took the dash off at lunch time and there was no obvious issues there. I expect that it couild be under the bonnet. A quick look (I only have time for a quick look!) earlier revealed dirt and cobwebs. I will set too tonight with fresh charged battery and clean fuses etc.

 

Final question: Should, when hooked up to mains, there be power registering on the LB terminals regardless of battery condition? In order to charge the battery? If this is so then it should be easy to check if the system is working, if not, how can tell if the LB is charging on mains?

 

Thanks again

 

Matt

[Ralph]

mattamyg - 2007-08-01 3:17 PM

 

Final question: Should, when hooked up to mains, there be power registering on the LB terminals regardless of battery condition? In order to charge the battery? If this is so then it should be easy to check if the system is working, if not, how can tell if the LB is charging on mains?

 

Matt

 

In a word, Yes. I'd say the charger was suspect as you should see around 14v across the terminals even without a battery being present.

 

[osmodia]

Hi, I had my battery fail in 18 months in a Trigano Rubis. I then found out that there is some stupid EU directive that limits 12v chargers to 13.8 volts.

This is not enough to get a flat battery going apparently?

Read Ken Fowler's interesting stuff on this site http://www.caravantechnology.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=1

I fitted one of the listed chargers and it works perfectly and can be left on 27/7

 

Oz

[mattamyg]

How easy is it to change the charger? are there a load of different stuff plugged in all over the place or is it more a leads in and out job? Do you have to get one with the right connections?

 

I fitted a whole system to my Type 2 VW but that was all simple stuff!!

 

Regards

 

Matt

[martin r c]

Does the 12v stuff work,lights / pump etc,when plugged in.if not the charger has no output. this should work even with no or a flat battery .Make sure the trips have not blown on the consumr unit.try the simple things first-have you got mains to sockets / fridge etc. (?)

 

A lot of these chargers have an internal fuse.they are prone to blowing.and sometimes can be replaced by drilling out the rivits that hold it together.and removing the top.but first make sure you have 240v ac to it's input.

 

martin r c

[Globetrotter]

Matt

If your red light is flashing, I think that indicates a dead battery in the Dethleffs. under these circumstances, I THINK that the charger automatically cuts itself off to prevent damage. (Which might be why it isnt charging.)

The charger is an all in one unit with multiplugs in and out. I would be very surprised if it was an easy job to fit another type of charger as the chances of the plugs being the same are VERY slim.....

[Brian Kirby]

Matt

Have you tried two simple tests? 

1 With the battery removed from the van, put a voltmeter across its terminals, and

2 With the battery still out of the van, but with the mains and charger on, put a voltmeter across the connections from the battery charger (just be careful not to let the connectors touch each other, or the positive terminal to touch any metalwork!).

If the answer to 1 above is 0, the battery is knackered (even if the answer is 12 or more volts it may be knackered, but if it is 0, it is definately knackered.)  If the answer to 2 above is 0, there is no charge from the charger.  Then start working your way around the charger mains and 12V circuits (mains disconnected, of course) looking for discontinuity where there should be continuity.  If you have a multimeter, check the resistances on the various circuits.  If you meet high resistances there is a fault somewhere on that circuit (possibly just a switch that is not "on", possibly a blown fuse, possibly a wire that has become disconnected, possibly a damaged wire).  However, you will have to find the charger.  Try switching the mains charger circuit on and off and listen for any clicks, then see if you can work out where they come from.  However, do remember to remove that mains cable before you try any testing after you've found it!

[Ralph]

osmodia - 2007-08-01 3:57 PM

I then found out that there is some stupid EU directive that limits 12v chargers to 13.8 volts.

 

Poor old EU getting blamed again! It's just common sense. If the voltage is no more than 13.8 it won't blow any 12 volt devices you might connect. People with expensive sattelite TV systems seem to prefer not to have them fried :-S

 

If you look at http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=8179&posts=29 you'll see a graph of a typical charger voltage.

 

 

 

[osmodia]

Yes, but look at that graph the voltage voltage goes up to 14.3 ! It has to the start the charger properly.

A lot of standard chargers fitted in 'vans are limited to 13.8.

Oz

[osmodia]

osmodia - 2007-08-01 7:25 PM

 

Yes, but look at that graph the voltage voltage goes up to 14.3 ! It has to the start the charger properly.

A lot of standard chargers fitted in 'vans are limited to 13.8.

Oz

I mean start the charge properly! :-D

[mattamyg]

Hi, I cleaned all the fuse points checked connections etc, fitted a newly externally charged LB, now checking across the LB points the voltage is 14.8V and the LB is 13.5V, It all appears to be OK. I am going to remake all the fuse connections. I didn't seem to do that much to make it work and the rocker switch to check the van battery is intermittent...I think there is still a dodgy connection!

 

Thanks for all the practical help and advice.

 

Matt

 

[Brian Kirby]

mattamyg - 2007-08-02 8:12 AM .................and the rocker switch to check the van battery is intermittent...I think there is still a dodgy connection! Thanks for all the practical help and advice. Matt

Matt

If, by intermittent, you mean sometimes it switches on and sometimes not, I'd guess the problem lies just in that switch.  Examine it, or just replace it!  There is little else to fail, it is the only mechanical component, the rest of the system is just wires.

[Globetrotter]

Brian

I think the switch he is referring to is the voltmeter rocker switch (Is it Matt ?) If so, is it the starter battery voltage it sometimes doesnt show? If so, mine does exactly the same-sometimes works, sometimes not. I still feel that we both have connection issues and I suspect the wire to the starter battery-I am thinking of completely replacing it on mine because as I said before, it is the only conduit for the charger system so if it is breaking down, it would lead to intermittent faults such as both of us have experienced!! Glad to hear you are now charging OK though! I remember when mine wasnt, cleaning the fuses did the trick.

Good luck.

[jaypoll]

Brian

Re your advice about using a multimeter, surely an open switch or a blown fuse = open circuit = zero resistance. correct me if I'm wrong.

I always enjoy reading your replies.

John

[Brian Kirby]

jaypoll - 2007-08-02 3:50 PM Brian Re your advice about using a multimeter, surely an open switch or a blown fuse = open circuit = zero resistance. correct me if I'm wrong. I always enjoy reading your replies. John

John

No: if there is no continuity in a circuit, as with an open switch, or a blown fuse, the resistance is infinite.  If the circuit is complete, and the wires well connected, the resistance (as measures on a multimeter) will be close to zero.  This is the resistance to current flow remember, if the switch is open, the current can't flow, implying infinite resistance.  However, don't try this with lightning, 'cos it will just jump the gap!

[mattamyg]

Hi, It is the rocker switch, voltmeter. And, yes sometimes works sometimes not, but only on the starter battery, the same meter measures both water tanks and the LB power. I am going to strip the whole lot down and clean it this weekend.

 

Again, thanks for all the help. Its great to have a place to get advice.

 

Regards Matt

[Globetrotter]

No problems Matt-we Dethleffs owners must stick together !!!

[dethleff]

So Matt how did you get on?

Stan

[mattamyg]

Hi, I have had a new guy start at work so no time for idling away on here!

 

Anyway, all is well, (touch wood) The only problem is the random starter battery level on the rocker switch, I can live with that!

 

I am only putting it charge every week for a night now, so hopefully things should be ok.

 

Thanks for all the help!!

 

Matt