Semi-permanent living

[meddyliol]

Hi, in the new year my wife and I will be buying a Motorhome (possibly an Autotrail Chieftain or at least one with a large garage). We intend to sell our house and travell over the UK looking for a suitable house to buy, probably in Wales or Scotland. My question is and I realise there is no definitive answer, is, what are the pitfalls of semi or even permanent Motorhome living? Does anyone out there actually do it? We are very keen on this and might even venture abroad.

 

P.S. We have never had a Motorhome before but we do subscribe to MMM and Which Motocaravan.

 

Thanks

 

Brian

 

[Vixter]

Hello Brian

 

Welcome to the forum! You couldn't have chosen a better place to ask for advice.

 

We have just done the very same thing - lived full time in a motorhome for a year while looking for somewhere to down-size to. We now live in France, and it was worth the hassle of full timing to be able to travel and stay for long periods in an area to be sure it is right for you - before parting with your money.

 

The very first thing that you have to remember is that you will NOT be on holiday. When on holiday your budget would be different for a start, if it was raining you would possibly go out somewhere nice, and that is when it starts to get expensive. The weather is a HUGE consideration. Due to circumstances (not by choice) we spent far too much of our full-time year in England, allbeit the south of England. Now, it can be fun to have a few days snuggled up in a motorhome when it is sharp and frosty, but in real life the damp and dreary days can be a drag. Often it is too wet and windy for the awning to stay up and your motorhome can seem to close in on you.

 

Your choice of motorhome is crucially important, but I won't go into that in detail at this stage as I could write reams! In a nutshell, get the biggest you can afford and comfortably drive. For our needs we chose a Niesmann Bischoff Clou liner 1990 model - old but solidly built and big enough for all the things we needed for full timing. Its mainly clothes that occupy the most space and you will need them for all seasons. We also had on board grey and black water tanks which means you are not emptying casettes in the pouring rain everyday.

 

Unless you want to eat out on a regular basis you will need to think about the meals you will want to cook and therefore the type of kitchen equipment you will want. We have a gas oven, grill and hob, a Remouska and a Belling two plate electric cooker. When on camp sites we use the mains hook up and cook electrically, otherwise its gas.

 

You wont be able to take advantage of supermarket BOGOF's for food shopping as the freezer size and food storage space is limited, so your cost of shopping tends to be marginally higher.

 

One of the biggest disadvantages of Full timing in a motor home is that of exercise particularly in the winter months. We put on a lot of weight and became very unfit despite simple light meals because we were not moving around much, even in a 28 foot motorhome you dont walk too far!

 

We started off with the best intentions - bikes in the garage for exercise and shopping expeditions. Very soon (around November in the UK) reality set in and we realised that the bikes were taking up too much space in the garage and that we really didn't want to cycle two miles just to get fresh bread. So we bit the bullet and bought a Smart car and trailer. Much better, but obviously it added significantly to our already considerable weight and size, not to mention a hole in our budget.

 

The other problem is that there are not so many camp sites in the UK that are open all year round, so you may want to consider Spain for the winter months - continental motorhoming is a whole new ball game.

 

Having done it for a year you can appreciate there is a lot more to be said but I hope this brief summary gives you something to work on as a start.

 

Don't be put off, there are many plus points, but they are the ones that you will already have thought of yourself. If you want to know anything else about our experiences, please send me/us a PM.

 

Good luck!!

 

Vixter and the Other Half

[Vixter]

Should have made this point first.

 

Are you caravanners, or have you ever had a holiday in a motorhome? How long have you subscribed to MMM & Which Motorcaravan?

 

We spent ten years caravanning and six years researching which motorhome to buy, much of that research done through MMM and this forum. We also hired two large motorhomes for holidays and bought a small campervan for long weekends.

 

Please remember that if you should decide to go ahead with this idea of yours, it will be a life-changing experience! You would be well advised to have at lease one holiday in a motorhome before you sell your house and buy a motorhome - you may not like it at all!

 

Vixter

[johnsandywhite]

B-) We have been Full-Timers for nearly 11 years. The last 7 in US Motorhomes (RV's). Full size cooker, Microwave, Fridge/Freezer, Shower, Toilet, Bed. You name it? It's got it. We use bikes to get around on and visit friends and do shopping.

The ONLY down side? Cost of fuel which can be cut by an LPG conversion in the case of a Petrol motor and Bio Diesel/Cooking Oil in the case of Diesel. Happy Motorhoming. May your travels be many and your travels be few. ;-)

[martin r c]

I assume you have to have an address/po box or some place to have documents( insurance and the like) to be sent to you so you can obtain them to say tax your van/car. can this be a "care of" address ie friend or relation?. how do you get on about the address on your v5 and driving licence. and things like speeding fines and parking offences.?

We may well want to do the same thing(sell up and travel) but I can see some problems of having " no fixed abode"

 

Martin

[Mel B]

Just a slight word of caution generally to anyone considering selling up and living permanently, ie for the foreseeable future, in a motorhome. If you can afford it, keep a hold in the property market in some shape or form. Getting out of it for any great length of time could be disasterous if you suddenly find that you can no longer continue living in a motorhome and have to go back to bricks and motar. :-|

 

Med. - I hope you managed to do what you say you will and thoroughly enjoy it! B-)

[johnsandywhite]

:-D We still own properties (rent to family) and use our main house as an address. ;-)

[woody.]

Hya meddyliol , Take notice of vixter and co they all speak good sense , ive got a chieftain , ive lived in it for a few weeks at a time hols etc and find theres plenty of storage space , room to move around etc , i intend in the near future to sell up downsize property and live most of the time in the van , by that time i will have sorted a caratow frame for my little car and have fitted a decent size solar panel on top . as vixter says one of the probs is when its raining , well all i do is watch telly play chess and read or listen to the radio which is what i do at home anyway , i also birdwatch so thats an all weather thing , in summer of course you tend to be outside most of the time anyway . Providing youve still got a property to go back to i reckon thats what youll do when youve had enough of the bad weather , one things for sure you must be sure this life is for you , its a very expensive mistake if not.

 

[meddyliol]

Hello Vixter

 

This is Mary, Brian's co-pilot here. As I'm the writer in the family I've been given the privilege of thanking you for your kind response to his posting.

 

Everything you say makes sound sense. Brian should have mentioned a few little points - we lived in a caravan in some of the most extreme conditions - on the most northerly of the British islands - Unst, Shetland Isles. We were stationed there during his RAF service and believe me, the weather doesn't get much more desperate anywhere, with winds gusting up 180 mph on quite a regular basis! Nobody walked upright on that island and when the winds dropped they'd forgotton how to!

 

Our caravan was securely wired so that it wouldn't take off but even so we have experienced some hair-raising moments. We know about wet weather and living in a van, particularly one without much by way of a heating system. We were blessed, back in the early 80's, to have a very small table top fridge but no other luxuries. We have had summer caravan holidays, more so for Brian who spent almost every summer at the beach in a caravan.

 

With regards putting on weight: we are great walkers, plus we have a very fit small dog who won't let us get fat under any circumstances. We walk in all weather. We don our waterproofs and go. The dog doesn't mind so why should we. To be honest I don't think we'll be any more uncomfortable or lazy than we would be living in any bricks and mortar property anywhere in the world.

 

Brian should have mentioned the dog, a young Cairn called Ellie, who never goes slowly anywhere. I have plans to purchase something called Freedom Fence. It's a wire that runs around your property, or motorhome perhaps. It transmits a signal to a collar around the animals neck and as the dog or cat approaches the boundary it emits an audio signal. So we'd have our own little space that she could go in without having to be tethered like a goat all day long.

 

My brother tells me that many sites are closed through the winter in the UK and we'd have to investigate this quite thoroughly if we intend being in a motorhome at that time.

 

We are planning on hiring the biggest motorhome we can find in our area, even if only for a very short time. Just so that we know we can cope with driving one and to be able to deal with hooking up etc. site.

 

Personally I can't wait to leave behind the bricks and mortar. If the worst comes to the worst we'll have the money in a bank account and we can rent a property until we find a new home. The main thing about what we're planning is that we'll be able to take everything we want in our lives, (which is very little by way of possession), and go and find the perfect retirement spot. We've lived in various countries with the RAF experience and we have no desire to fly off abroad on holiday. Our home and our lives together are all the holiday we need and if our home happens to have an engine and wheels then that's going to be just wonderful.

 

We've talked about venturing back into Europe and even considered living in France - it was me who stopped that one it it's tracks. When we lived in Berlin I worked with Germans and dealt with German business people and had to have some grasp of the language, but I really don't want to be forced into learning French in order not to feel like an alien for the rest of my life. I liked what I saw of France and have a feel for the language but I've too much going on in my life to take language lessons.

 

Thank you again for all your hints and tips, everything will be stored for future reference! We need all the advice we can get. Thank you to everyone who answered Brian's questions.

 

One last paragraph: How about doctor's and letters? Do you stay with your old doctor and go as a temporary patient if need be whilst long term motorhoming? Do you use a relative for all your mail? Why doesn't Brian think that towing a small car is a good idea? He wants to store ours because it's only a few months old!

 

Bless you for your kindness.

 

Best wishes

 

Brian and Mary - incidentally we're in Dorset too. B-)

[woody.]

Hya brian and mary, by your last post i reckon youve made your mind up anyway , youve obviously had a taste of it all before , but not in a motorhome , to answer your last paragraph , i personally would stay with my doctor whilst near home and then when away use a local doc ,which ive done in the past , my wife needs to stay under the umbrella of poole hospital because of ongoing medications and treatment , but appointments can be planned in travel arangements anyway , as far as sites in winter go i reckon theres plenty about , i always go away for xmas to different places and find a lot of these sites are open all year .

[meddyliol]

Thanks for the reply Woody.

 

Yes, I think we have made our minds up. We're excited by this running away plan. If we keep waiting for the time to be right we'll never do it. We're in Blandford, not too far from you. I too have the hospital rounds to think about at times. Currently I'm seeing someone in Salisbury and may have to go to Southampton for tests. I have been attending Bristol Dental for years anyway, but can always migrate back for an appointment. It's a bit like being a tortoise isn't it? You know, the whole house goes with you everywhere you go. :->

 

Can we please have a practice in your lovely van? ;-)

It's what we need, never mind what we want - a big vehicle and that's about the same size as our bungalow.

 

We're off to the show at Bath & West Showground next month, so that we can stomp around checking all the vans.

 

Has anyone ever produced a fold up bath? I can't think how I'll cope with showers all the time. I'll probably end up sitting on the floor in a puddle! No, don't even picture that, it could put you off your supper!

 

How much time do you spend on the road do you reckon?

 

How can living in a motorhome be worse than where I am right now, it's hammering down with rain and the dog wants a walk! I suppose that if we get the vehicle we want we can always crawl through the garage to disrobe, leaving a trail of wet and muddy bits and pieces behind us. Now that is something to picture.

 

Thanks again.

 

B & M

 

 

[woody.]

Hya B&M, How much time do i spend on the road , well im still working for a year or two yet , but get away as much as i can , i would say it depends on where your going and how long you stay at your destination . So your going to bath and west eh? good hunting , you might also nip down to Chelston motorhomes theyve always got a good stock in , especially autotrails, if you want a bath buy a paddling pool , works for kids , but please put a windbreak up first , dont want too much excitement on site.

[meddyliol]

Hi Woody

 

Windbreak! Spoil sport!

 

So, you are a bricks and mortar man for the time being. I guess that everything will come back down to that for us eventually, especially as the whole idea was to get out and find the right home for us. After so many years of living in many dozens of different homes it becomes virtually impossible to know where we want to settle. With a home and the animals it has always been difficult to get away to do a home search. At least this way there's no need for dog sitters.

 

Brian forgot to ask: How do you folk manage for Internet connection while out on the road? Be it permanent Motorhoming or not. I have a laptop and WiFi and have been recommended an O2 plug in that connects laptop to Internet for £30 a month. Seems a lot to recover and send email. This Hot Spot business is all new to us and because I have a successful networking business I can't, and don't want to, be unable to send and receive mail.

 

Everyone on this forum has been so very helpful. It's difficult to find answers to seemingly simple questions and all the mulling it over between us hasn't got us anywhere. Our great ideas aren't always practical to those who regularly use a motorhome. To go off in a giant of a vehicle with absolutely no idea about anything is madness, and all the advice and hints we've received on this forum have already sorted out many little niggles for us.

 

We were recommended to look at Chelston by a man who also told us to be sure to buy a vehicle big enough to get past each other inside. He said that if we go for more than a week or two we need space inside or we'll drive each other daft in a dash to the toilet when one of us is at the cooker and we can't get past.

 

Do you know anything about Countrywide at Wimbourne? They only sell used vehicles and viewing is by appointment only.

 

We're going to measure up a space the size of a Chieften garage in our conservatory and practice stripping off soggy clothes! Not really, but perhaps we should!

 

Well, it's another day of planning and preparation for us, we're off for new waterproofs this morning, can't have too many of those these days, but don't try buying a pair or wellies in any shoe shop in this country before September/October! It never rains in Britain in the summer - wellington boots are for winter use only. If only.

 

You'll see us on site one day - the big truck with Eejits Onboard written on the back of it. (lol)

[Vixter]

Hi again to you both.

 

You are clearly making progress! I will tell you about how we coped with mail. We did a permanent change of address to our son's address, this included banks, insurance, any shares etc, EVERYTHING, we were also on internet banking already. Therefore everything went to him. He opened all our mail and made a judgement as to what needed urgent attention - he phoned us, what we actually needed to look at urgently - he scanned it and emailed it to us, and what could wait - he waited until he had a reasonable pile then sent it to us at a secure address where we were camping ie campsite. He also emailed a periodic precis of what was accumulating, so we could decide if anything needed attention.

 

This worked very well for us. The important thing is, do you have someone else who you can trust to read all your mail? The other thing is (as you mention) internet on the move. If you are running a business you will need more than the wireless hotspot connections, also not recommended for banking. The Other Half was also working so we invested in a Vodafone Data Stick, which is a gizmo you plug into your laptop & in theory it picks up a signal through its simcard. As is the case with mobile phones, it worked better in some areas than others. Far from perfect, at times frustrating when it didn't work. Occasionally he had to leap into the Smart car & whiz off to the nearest wireless hotspot (usually a Macdonalds) & send off his accumulated Emails there. The cost for UK use was about 20-30 pounds a month, but much higher for use in Europe, also dependant on the amount of data you wish to send & receive. Check the internet for up to date prices, there are other service providers available but we believed at the time that Vodafone was the best of the bunch. If you do decide to use this method, you may find the reception of any given area will dictate where you chose your campsite. Some campsites have internet access, but not many. The other considerations are libraries and internet cafes, we thought these to be easier to find and use in UK than in France. However, if you use the internet through any of these alternatives you still have to consider security (your business & banking) & may need to erase any temporary files that had been created on the computer. Internet on the move can be achieved but it Ain't Easy!

 

Finally, you are clearly looking for a big motorhome. Absolutely essential. The Other Half needed his space (especially for his work stuff) & so did I. So our Clou Liner has two distinct living areas, one medium table at the front for his laptop & general clutter, one large dining table 'midships' for me (my laptop/additional food preparation area/sewing area/etc).

 

Getting back to your big motorhome, if you have a C1+E license you will be OK for the time being to drive a biggie up to 7.5 tons. However there are changes in the wind, check out the recent posting 'Bombshell from Mel E'.

 

It would seem that your past experiences will be a great preparation for this new way of life. You will be ideally suited and 'up for it', a great deal depends on your frame of mind, also on you both being equally committed to the adventure. Good luck, and enjoy the planning and preparations, they are half the fun!!

 

Vixter

 

 

[meddyliol]

Thank you once again Vixter.

 

Everything you've said is important information to us as you have been more than a casual motorhome user.

 

We have our son who is 100% honest and have thought that we'd use his place as our mailing address, with similar in mind to what you did. As there are generally all the big banks in most towns nowadays it makes things a little.

 

The chap at Carphone Warehouse recommended the new O2 plug in card, which is purely an Internet line. The Vodaphone WiFi card I was given with the new Sony laptop was very expensive and I found it impossible to understand what was what. I used up several pounds without even being aware I was connected. The new O2 card gives about 70,000 text emails in a month but would cost a lot to download anything with pictures in it. The Vodaphone card I had sounds much like the one you were using, and I know it would be an expensive option. I will have to read and write all my emails off-line to save money.

 

Everything is so darned complicated if it's to do with telephones or computers or the Internet. Neither of us could be considered stupid and we enjoy modern gadgets and gizmo's, it's the instruction manuals that need some serious attention.

 

We have C1+E licences and we've just discovered we can drive a road roller and an army tank on a provisional licence....aren't we luckly old bunnies! If the law doesn't change in the next five years we'll be okay on the current licences. Will have to re-think our lives a few times before then I suspect. No point worrying about something that might never happen and no point worry anyway, it never made anything go better.

 

My brother has hinted that there's talk of stopping motorhomes towing a car. Reverse caravanning is what he calls it!

 

Do you find it more tricky having a car in tow? I can see the advantage of doing that but Brian is very hesitant about towing anything. He didn't really enjoy towing a small trailer.

 

Is the living sweet in France Vixter? The learning of another language is my only objection to that option. Perhaps we should cross the water when we have the new home with an engine.

 

Hope it's warmer where you are than it is here today - despite the sunshine!

 

Thanks again for advice given.

 

B & M

 

[woody.]

Hya B&M, I intend to do like vixter we have a daughter not far away who will see to most of the things you mentioned , vixter has a clou liner now thats a bigger beast than mine and there will be more room in there , but it depends what sort of size your happy with , also bear in mind , youll have to downsize to 3.5 tonne when you get to 70 depending on what licence you hold [ i think im right ] I did meet at a ralley earlier this year a couple who had 2 dogs and were living in their A/Trail Arrapahoe , they towed a small car and seemed happy with the set up so , 28 feet should be ok , for you .

Anyway , sounds like your getting it sussed ok.

[Vixter]

Hi B & M

 

Towing - I don't think there are any plans to stop you towing a car on a trailer, that is what we do. We don't really enjoy towing, but just found it to be necessary! "Needs Must..." etc. etc. The only question mark hovers over the contentious subject of towing on an A frame, & there is lots to be learned on that subject on this forum, just do a search...

 

As for life in France, it couldn't be sweeter. We came out with little more than 'holiday French', I learned the language at school but that was many, many, years ago. The Other Half learned German at school, so that's not much use out here. You just pick it up as you go. We're certainly not spring chicken but where there's a will, there is always a way, and there are many language courses available to expat Brits such as ourselves should we decide that we need them. We decided on Brittany for the beautiful countryside, the (slightly) warmer weather - beautiful today - I've been in my shorts since breakfast, the relaxed way of life and the slightly less expensive cost of living. In general, the Bretons are pro-British, there is a definite Celtic link

 

It all works - we're not disappointed on any count.

 

Think again, you may just decide to give France a go!

 

Vixter

 

 

[sshortcircuit]

Very interesting posting however can someone clarify the position regaring the NHS. My understanding of full timing abroad is that if you are out of the country for a period of time (?) then you can loose all rights to NHS medical treatment etc. Similarly if you returned needing housing assistance etc this would not be available.

 

I am led to understand a number of those full timing abroad retain a small property in UK, paying rates and utilities etc in their name in order to retain a right to benifits?

 

Any guidance on this matter would be much appreciated

[meddyliol]

Hi

 

Having lived abroad whilst serving in the RAF I can tell you that it is necessary to employ an accountant to take care of tax matters if you rent your home while you head off anywhere. We were warned that we'd get trapped on the capital gains law if we weren't very careful. We paid an accountant what we thought was a lot of money at the time and he managed to get four or five times the amount back for us in tax rebates.

 

I had an uncle who lived in Australia from when I was a baby (many moons) and he came back to the UK decades later and got NHS spectacles and dental treatment. I do believe there's a lot more available than we know about.

 

Anyone who retires abroad is still entitled to their State Pension and I can't see how anything else can be stopped. Let's face it, it's darned hard to get what is ours by rights without living overseas. My father was blind and disabled and well into his 90's when he came to live with us. I had to fight for every single thing the NHS and the government in general, gave by way of financial or physical assistance. Everyone will tell you about it AFTER you don't need it!

 

I believe that if you decide to go and live in another country you should do it with a mind to living out your days there. It's a bit like getting married, no good starting off with "I can always get a divorce if it doesn't work" in mind - that would almost certainly mean doom for any happy relationship. So many people go overseas in the belief that everything will be better, happier and easier than it is in the UK. This is still the best country in the world - politics aside. We don't have all those creepy poisonous creatures to worry about, only a drop of rain! ;-)

 

Sorry I can't give you any advice, but I'm sure there are many who will be more than willing to help with your questions.

 

Best of luck

 

B & M