Tony Norton Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Hello all, apologies if this covers old ground, but I have searched the FAQs without success. Simple question, how can I identify which type of engine I have, idtd or jtd? Our previous 'van ("Y" reg) had the "idtd" on each side of the bonnet. The current one ("52" reg, engine No. 3605595) has nothing on, or under, the bonnet to indicate type, just a couple of paper labels confirming the engine number. *-) Thanks in advance. Tony Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 tony the jtd came out in late2001 so yours is a 52 plate late 2002 it should be a jtd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Norton Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 Thanks Pagey, Cheers Tony N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 pagey - 2007-08-30 1:54 PM tony the jtd came out in late2001 so yours is a 52 plate late 2002 it should be a jtd Unless, of course, the chassis had been around for a while before the van was built, and the van around for a while before it was registered! Look on the VIN plate for the type number, then cross check that against the Fiat owners' handbook in which there is a huge list of the variants and their type numbers. If you haven't a handbook, either give your nearest Fiat commercial dealer the VIN, and they should be able to get you the right one (they're a listed spare part), or ask them to confirm the engine using the Fiat database from the VIN. The latter is probably the most certain route and should be free. However, that handbooks are useful when something comes up that you don't understand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Norton Posted August 30, 2007 Author Share Posted August 30, 2007 Thanks Brian, I'll give that a go. Tony N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted August 30, 2007 Share Posted August 30, 2007 Isn't the JTD a common rail engine?. If so it should be easy to spot the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Yes Peter, the JTD is common rail and is easy to spot, if you know what to look for. If its a JTD there will be no throttle cable between the pedal and the injection pump. Have a look down the front of the engine, left hand side (as you look into the engine bay) if there is a cable connected to a lever on top of the injection pump then its an idtd, if no cable then JTD. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Norton Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Hi Dave, I think you have confirmed that it is a JTD. I can't see anything that looks like a cable (loads of pipes and electrical connections). I assume the injection pump is the cast ali chatty at the rear of the engine - am I right? Perhaps you could cast you eye over the attached pickies to be doubly sure. Many thanks and Best Regards Tony Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Norton Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Sorry, I think previewing the message removed the attachment option. Tony N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Norton Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 And.... the "attach file" doesn't seem to do what it should. I'll, hopefully, send the pictures after I have heard back from the Moderator. Cheers Tony N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Your pics are probably too "big" (in kb terms) - that's the usual problem people have with pics on here. But I'm curious Dave - if there's no throttle cable on these new-fangled wotsits, what does the right-hand pedal do? (I only ask because my style of driving makes it the most important pedal - when I ride as a passenger I reach for the imaginary one, where others go for the imaginary brake!!! :-D :-D :-D ) Tony PS don't go all "safety" on me - count the emoticons!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 No worrys Tony. On modern vehicles the right hand pedal is connected to a position sensor, in reality a fancy variable resistor. This gives a signal to the ECU which is proportional to how far down the pedal is pressed. The ECU then takes this along with all the other inputs, road speed, engine speed, engine load etc and determines how much fuel and when to squirt it in. The latest generation of common rail injection systems can give up to five injection cycles per firing stroke, this is done to give a smooth progressive burn of the fuel and leave minimal unburnt fuel and combustion by products. If you just stop and think about that for a moment, five injection cycles per firing stroke, per cylinder is pretty impressive stuff. Lets say the engine is doing 3000 rpm, that's 50 revs per second. For a four stroke, four cylinder motor that is 25 firing strokes per second times five injection cycles per cylinder, one hundred and twenty five injection cycles per second or 0.008 seconds per injection cycle. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Norton Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Thanks again Dave, I think from the observations indicated by you, and the Engine code, 8140.43S that is listed in the Owners Manual for a 2.8JTD and repeated on a label on the engine itself (thank you Brian) I am now well convinced that it is a JTD not an IDTD. Why does it matter? Because I'm about to fit a Smartbox designed for the JTD, and am now reasonably happy that it should work. Thanks again to all for your comments. Tony Norton :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Worth while checking Tony as it would do nothing for the idtd :-( D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-08-31 11:56 AM No worrys Tony. On modern vehicles the right hand pedal is connected to a position sensor, in reality a fancy variable resistor. This gives a signal to the ECU which is proportional to how far down the pedal is pressed. The ECU then takes this along with all the other inputs, road speed, engine speed, engine load etc and determines how much fuel and when to squirt it in. Wow! All this confirms my conclusion, that when I get my new (or newer )van, I'll move my "car" toolbox into the boot of my 1968 Mini, which is the only place it'll be any use. The only things I'll be attempting under the bonnet of my next van are the yellow bits where you top stuff up! (And when I think of the amateur running repairs I've done over the years ... slightly nostalgic, sad that all that has to end, but I can see the benefits of all the new stuff (performance, economy, and reliability), so I'll move on willingly enough.) Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Norton Posted August 31, 2007 Author Share Posted August 31, 2007 Hello all, update on identification. It must be a 2.8JTD. The Smartbox is installed and works fine.:-D If it's any help to anybody, when installing one of these, after removing the injector cover just disconnect the fuel rail pressure sensor. Do not remove its cable from from the rubber cable clamp at the bottom of the injector area. Connect as per van Aaken instructions, coil the spare cable with the "tee" piece in the area that will be behind the cover when refitted (you'll need to position this coil behind the pipe to the leftmost injector otherwise you won't get the cover on), bringing the cable to the box out thru the space left of the bottom left hand corner of the cover. Mount the box on the open face of the battery. These are not clever ideas that I've thought up, just some helpful pointers that are not included in the written instructions, and were given to me by Sean at van Aaaken. Now to see exactly how much the Smartbox saves us. (?) Best to all, and thanks again for your help. Tony Norton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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