Bike Racks - need number plate, lights etc??

[BGD]

Ok chaps - a question on bicycle racks, and what else you need to decorate them with.

 

We are relative newbies to this motorhoming lark, and I inherited our old-dog van "Martin" with a bicycle rack attached to it's rear.

 

It's the bog standard fold-up-when-you-don't-it style, with three slots for pushbikes. From memory, I think it may be a Fiamma, but they all seem to look about the same.

 

Now, the way it's mounted to the rear of the van, with our two pushbikes on it, the rack base with the pushbike wheel channels on it sticks out maybe 3 feet, and although it is mounted above the rear bumper (which contains the number plate) you're pretty hard pressed to see the van number plate below it, unless your line of sight from behind was pretty low - I'm guessing that cars a dozen metres behind would be OK, but once close up behind probably can't read all of my number plate. (Sometimes not a bad thing perhaps).

 

I have now fitted another number plate to the rack - it sits vertically against the bike wheel channel, but it is not illuminated.

 

I know that we are in Spain, and things are a bit different here, but I would value advice from a UK perspective, as the van is on Brit plates.

(Incidentally, the van is quite a bit wider than the bike rack, so the rack doesn't interfere with people seeing my rear brake and sidelights at all).

 

So, if I was in the Uk:

 

Do I need that second number plate?

 

Do I need one of those bloody awful red and white triangle thingies bungee'd to the pushbikes as well?

 

Does the secondary numberplate need to be illuminated?

 

Are there any other rules on this in the UK..........?

 

Any information on this from those who really know the UK regs would be gratefully received.

 

Cheers,

 

Bruce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[johnsandywhite]

BGD - 2007-10-02 9:22 PM

 

So, if I was in the Uk:

 

Do I need one of those bloody awful red and white triangle thingies bungee'd to the pushbikes as well?

 

:-D Yes and in Europe too. ;-)

[BGD]

Thanks John. Bugger!!!

 

 

Any other info from others please?

 

 

[Søren]

If your numberplate was obscured you would need an illuminated plate to comply, but I couldn't ever see you being reported if you had gone to the effort of fixing an unilluminated one.

 

I'm not sure where the regs are regarding a warning triangle, must admit that one is news to me.

[michele]

Are you guys saying that I ,m breaking the law by not having one of them triangle things on the back when we have the bikes on?

 

Oh Hubby will be pleased :D

[Mel E]

It is a legal requirement in Spain to have a square boards with yellow reflectors at each corner and red and white diagonal stripes. There are similar (though not identical) requirements in the rest of Europe - this is one area where the law has not yet been harmonised and does illustrate perfectly the benefit of such harmonisation.

 

Your best best for chapter and verse on each country is to buy the two volumes of Caravan Club's 'Caravan Europe'. The intro to each country gives a detailed summary of motoring, driver licensing and towing law and speed limits.

 

Are you resident in Spain or just visiting temporarily? If the former, are you aware that one piece of harmonised legislation requires you to re-register a vehicle if you stay in the same country for more than 6 months? Thought I'd better mention it, just in case.

 

Mel E

====

[Mel E]

Here is chapter and verse for the UK:

 

The ability for a numberplate to be read is covered by Statutory. Instrument 1971 No 450 - The Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971. Part Ill - Exhibition of Licences and Registration Marks states the following:

Requirements:

 

- The provisions of this regulation shall apply to vehicles, other than works trucks and agricultural machines, first registered on or after 1 October 1938.

 

- The registration mark of the vehicle shall be fixed and displayed on both the front and the back of the vehicle, so that in normal daylight the letters and figures are easily legible from every part of the 'relevant area', the diagonal of the square governing the 'relevant area' being 75 feet.

? For the purposes of this regulation, the expression 'relevant area' in relation to a registration mark on a vehicle means the area contained in a square described on the ground, either in front of or behind the vehicle, where one corner of the square is below the middle of the registration mark and the diagonal of the square from that corner is parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, but excluding any part of the square within 10 feet of the vehicle.

 

- It is an offence to allow the numberplate to be obscured. This is now a fixed penalty offence, and therefore more likely to be policed. Obviously, this is of some concern to towbar fitters and to drivers of vehicles with towbar attachments.

 

The requirement for it to be illuminated is covered by the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.

 

Mel E

====

[BGD]

Hi Mel -

 

The van spends most of it's life here in Spain but, (depending on who's asking), we come back to the UK, or go to other EU countries every now and then.

 

In reality there are so many tens of thousands of vehicles from other EU countries here in Spain all the time, that the Police do and have always done utterly nothing about the technicalities of the 6-month rule; they've got other better things to keep them occupied.

All you ever get asked for in a "Control" on Spanish roads is personal identity, and proof of insurance - as there is a very high percentage of cars, and even more bikes and scooters, that are simply not insured here because of the high cost of insurance.

(I should add that we're fully insured here in Spain, with cover anywhere else in the EU!)

 

 

There is currently in fact a strong rumour circulating here that in the near future you'll be able to register a vehicle with "foreign" plates ( so long as it's from another EU country) with your local Spanich Ajuntament (town council), just as Spainish registered vehicles are done, and pay the local Ajuntament vehicle tax on it here.

This is 'cos the Spanish authorities are pragmatic, and rgional and local administrations would rather have some revenue from these vehicles than none.

However, this is only a widespread rumour at present.

 

I'm particularly keen to understand the UK rules, both in case we come over to the UK in the van with the bikes on the back, and also so that I can (if ever needs be) explain these to a Policia Trafico officer here in Spain, as an excuse.

 

From replies to my thread so far, it would seem that perhaps knowledge of what you're supposed to do in the UK with these bike racks is not completely clear or agreed upon.

 

Cheers,

 

Bruce.

 

 

 

[Clive]

I had our rear number plate fitted at the top of the van above the rear window, together with its illuminating lamp from new.

Seemed logical Mr Spoc as they say!

 

 

 

[BGD]

Mel E - 2007-10-03 6:11 PM

 

Here is chapter and verse for the UK:

 

The ability for a numberplate to be read is covered by Statutory. Instrument 1971 No 450 - The Road Vehicles (Registration & Licensing) Regulations 1971. Part Ill - Exhibition of Licences and Registration Marks states the following:

Requirements:

 

- The provisions of this regulation shall apply to vehicles, other than works trucks and agricultural machines, first registered on or after 1 October 1938.

 

- The registration mark of the vehicle shall be fixed and displayed on both the front and the back of the vehicle, so that in normal daylight the letters and figures are easily legible from every part of the 'relevant area', the diagonal of the square governing the 'relevant area' being 75 feet.

? For the purposes of this regulation, the expression 'relevant area' in relation to a registration mark on a vehicle means the area contained in a square described on the ground, either in front of or behind the vehicle, where one corner of the square is below the middle of the registration mark and the diagonal of the square from that corner is parallel to the longitudinal axis of the vehicle, but excluding any part of the square within 10 feet of the vehicle.

 

- It is an offence to allow the numberplate to be obscured. This is now a fixed penalty offence, and therefore more likely to be policed. Obviously, this is of some concern to towbar fitters and to drivers of vehicles with towbar attachments.

 

The requirement for it to be illuminated is covered by the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989.

 

Mel E

====

 

Mel - that's excellent, many thanks.

 

It's most interesting that the requirements for legibility refer only to a horizontal plane, with no reference to a vertical plane.

A person (albeit crouching if close to the back of the van!) could easily read my original rear numberplate from anywhere in that relevant area described in the regulations........an excellent riposte to Mr Plod if questioned about it in the UK then!

 

I also note that there is no specific mention of any requirement for a secondary plate in what you've published - except I suppose by default, ie if the original plate is obscured.

(2nd thoughts - I think I'll leave the secondary number plate on the bike rack too, and try to avoid getting into the argument).

 

Thanks again for looking the regs up for me.

 

Cheers,

 

Bruce.

 

 

[Machloop]

Another bit of legislation that you need to look at is the construction and use pages. Your rear lights have to be at the rear of the vehicle and be seen (both of them) from an angle of 45 degrees. Even if you meet the latter you must have more lights if you have bikes, back box or anything else that sticks out more than so much and I think it is 900 mm but don't quote me on that size.

 

 

[Søren]

Just to join the ranks of legal saddos and pedants... :D

 

The horizontal angles of visibility required for rear position lamps are 45° inwards and 80° outwards.

The vertical angles of visibility required are 15° upwards, and a range from 5° to 15° downwards depending on their height on the vehicle.

 

Almost the same applies to stop lights except that their outward horizontal angle of visibility need only be 45°.

 

A rearward projecting load is allowed to project 1 metre behind the rear position lamps,

 

The regs also say "any vehicle carrying a load or equipment which obscures any obligatory lamp, reflector or rear marking must either transfer the obscured lamps, etc, to the load or equipment, or fit additional ones. Installation, performance and maintenance requirements must be complied with."

 

Obligatory lamps include stop lamps, rear position lamps rear retro reflectors, rear indicators and number plate light.

 

[BGD]

Soren - thank you.

 

I've tried to pick the bones out of those regs - but am very drunk after visting our village fiestas this evening, so it's probably bets to ignore anything i type until tomorrow.........

 

No problem with my rear indicators, sidelights and brakelights, as the bike rack is narrow enough that the lights can be seen at 45 degrees from behind.

 

But number plate "has to be visible at a vertical incline of 15 degrees". Not sure I'd satisfy that one, unless it's 15 degrees below the horizontal, which I doubt somehow - I'm going to have to get the protractor out tomorrow morning (when I'm sober again) and do a test at 15 degrees above.

 

Thanks again for your input.

 

 

 

[tebanksgmail.com]

You could do what I did and get an additional number plate and stick it to the bikes/rack etc with one of those bungee thingees that you have lying around and are afraid to throw out in case you might need it ......someday!