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We bought a Citroen Berlingo in February 2004 and I contacted Citroen a couple of months later to enquire about using BioDiesel.

 

Their reply was "As per the Citroen website, I can confirm that Citroens will run on BioDiesel without any modifications".

 

Took a bit of finding but the web site contains this statement "All Citroën’s HDi diesel engine cars and light commercial vehicles can be run on up to 30% bio-diesel without any modification."

 

Presumably this applies to Peugeot vehicles as well seeing as it's the same company.

 

Graham

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I have a very enterprising mate. Read this email interchange from him below if you feel tempted by bio-diesel / cooking oil..

 

LandRover:

I have converted the Discovery to run on waste vegetable oil now and have done 2200 miles so far. I have a second tank in the boot for diesel which is used for starting and stopping. Also a couple of changeover valves, filters and heat exchanger under the bonnet. The WVO goes in the original main tank.

HMCE have changed the rules now ( from 30th June 2007) so you don't have to pay any duty on the first 2500L of biofuel you produce ( or use) - they used to charge between 27p or 47p per litre depending on if they thought it was biofuel or fuel substitute.

 

You have to keep records of you usage over a rolling year, they can demand to see them at any time. I don't know for sure but they may want to see evidence of tax paid fuel being used if you exceed the 2500L limit.

In the past you had to be registered with HMCE as a "producer" of biofuels and tell them your monthly usage paying the 27 or 47 duty depending on what they thought you were producing,

biodiesel was taxed at 27p ie 47p -20p rebate for greener fuel and WVO was originally taxed at 27p then they changed the rules and said it was a fuel substitute and taxed at the standard rate for normal diesel.

Completely wrong as WVO is greener than biodiesel as you use it without chemically treating it.

 

Apparently HMCE changed the rules to promote the use of biofuels - Personally I think it was costing to much to administer the system ( registrations and small monthly payments).

The WVO is free to me but some places do charge - if you can't get any WVO you just buy cooking oil from Tesco or Makro for about 45p / L still half the price of diesel.

I bought my conversion kit from Dieselveg.co.uk - they have links to all the relevant HMCE instructions etc

 

It should be about another 10 weeks and the kit will of paid for itself then its just my startup and flushing diesel to buy.

 

The disadvantages are you have to flush the WVO from the injection system before the pump cools down (You are OK for about hour or so while the engine is hot). Also if you do very short journeys its not feasible as you have to wait until the engine is reasonably warm and the heater circuit working usually about a couple of miles then about the same for shut down to flush the WVO.

 

The kit I have is for mechanical injection - common rail is possible but is more complex.

 

 

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If you have 1.6 acres of garden you could go all the way and grow your own rapeseed.

This would in theory produce enough rapeseed oil to make about 200 gallons of diesel.

You would need about 4.5 acres to grow enough to take you up to the tax free threshold of 25oo litres or about 549 gallons.

 

Now that's tax avoidance!

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The bio deisel you buy and the bio diesel you make are two different products. Commercial bio diesel is only 5% veg 95% diesel.

Home made is 100% veg.

 

I read a report by an AA engineer who had callouts to failed HDI engines. The sensors on HDI engines get clogged with glycerine and the engine will go into limp mode and you will have to buy new sensors. These are very expensive.

 

You can run older diesels pre common rail but not the new ones.

 

I will look up the report and reply back when I find it.

 

 

Richard

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our crop this year tracker as been a total flop. untipical cornish weather us is afraid. made a total loss. maybe make up for it next year, but maybe not. av now planted a total different crop me ansums. aint telling e what as hmc will be nocking on me door.

 

faraway fred

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Its hardly surprising, looking at the figures relating to the tax HMRC impose on alternative fuels, that so many of us just dont bother.

The government keep on about the enviroment beeing abused , and yet offer no real incentive for us to help.

We operate a plastic recycling facility,mainly for commercial moulders etc, and yet get no help whatsoever from local or national government.

 

 

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Three (all negative) comments on biofuels:

 

1. A key reason why grain prices are rocketing around the world is because more land is being diverted to biofuel input. So you pay more for your bread, any flour- or corn-based product (cerials, cakes, many manufactured foods) but less for your fuel! More seriously, this is having a growing impact on grain available to give to third-world famine areas.

 

2. The Amazonian rain forest is being stripped faster than ever to create more land to grow bio fuels crops - so you swap the CO2 absorption of the rain forest and a unique eco-system to feel good about what you put in your car.

 

3. Even more seriously, large numbers of farms in Amazonian Brazxil, Peru and Bolivia are being 'aquired' by the local version of the mafia - often involving the disappearance or death of the owners, or then signing the farm over under death threats. This is happening because of the fast profite that van be made from bio-fuel plants.

 

Even if your own biofuel is grown and processed in the UK, you are still contributing to rising grain, etc., prices, which in turn promote these mafia-style activities.

 

Mel E

====

 

 

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It occurs that governments and multinationals with vested interests might just be behind the negativity - but such a view would of course be very cynical?

I wonder - why can't they extract the fuelly liquidy bits from the grain and use the bready solidy bits left over to make bread?

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Tracker - 2007-10-13 6:42 PM

 

It occurs that governments and multinationals with vested interests might just be behind the negativity - but such a view would of course be very cynical?

I wonder - why can't they extract the fuelly liquidy bits from the grain and use the bready solidy bits left over to make bread?

Much too logical for any politician :-D

 

Graham

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Mel E - 2007-10-13 6:34 PM

 

Three (all negative) comments on biofuels:

 

1. A key reason why grain prices are rocketing around the world is because more land is being diverted to biofuel input. So you pay more for your bread, any flour- or corn-based product (cerials, cakes, many manufactured foods) but less for your fuel! More seriously, this is having a growing impact on grain available to give to third-world famine areas.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps we should bring back into play the fields that farmers are currently being paid to set aside not to use to so the

EU can keep the production of grain at a level that keeps the prices up!

 

 

2. The Amazonian rain forest is being stripped faster than ever to create more land to grow bio fuels crops - so you swap the CO2 absorption of the rain forest and a unique eco-system to feel good about what you put in your car.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Initial part of your comment is quite correct, but has more to do with the greed of the Amazonians than feeling good about what you put in your car. This has been occurring for years long before Bio Fuels were in vogue.

 

3. Even more seriously, large numbers of farms in Amazonian Brazxil, Peru and Bolivia are being 'aquired' by the local version of the mafia - often involving the disappearance or death of the owners, or then signing the farm over under death threats. This is happening because of the fast profite that van be made from bio-fuel plants.

---------------------------------------------------

 

Again has little to do with Bio Fuel but more about the type of country and regimne that exist there. As you have specifically mentioned Brazil can't comment on the others. It is a fact that they are self sufficient in Bio Fuel already so no longer import oil, but that has no effect on the grain price whatsoever.

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

Even if your own biofuel is grown and processed in the UK, you are still contributing to rising grain, etc., prices, which in turn promote these mafia-style activities.

------------------------------------------------------------

 

Not until all the 'set aside' farm land that we are paying for is brought back into use will this be any way near correct

 

Bas

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Bas,

 

1. Set-aside goes at the end of this year.

 

2. Grain prices are set on the world market, so whether Brazil is self-sufficient in bio-fuel really has no impact: it's about total world supply and demand for grain.

 

I was simply trying to illustrate how politicians jump on any band wagon without thinking it all through. The huge subsidies being paid to build wind farms which never seem to deliver the promised amounts of power is another example - besides which, our peak demands for electricity occur on the coldest days in winter and hottest in summer (for aircon, etc) and those days are caused by 'High' pressure zones sitting over the UK, meaning almost no wind, so no wind power when we need it most!

 

Mel E

====

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Hi Mel,

 

Although set aside goes at the end of the year it doesn't alter the fact that it was introduced to cut production to maintain prices particularly for the very inefficient French farmers.

 

Brazil has no effect on the grain prices at all as all their Bio Fuel is made from Sugar Beat and suger production left overs, effectively making use of otherwise thrown away materials, so has absolutely no effect on grain price.

 

Were you aware that it is possible to make perfectly usable Bio Fuel from, for instance, willow and it uses every bit of this fast growing tree's otherwise disposed of annual growth and this also would have no effect on grain price? However the government refuses to assist in the development of it which could make the fuel available within a year but currently will take around five years.

 

I am extremely sceptical of all 'Green Rabble' issues as it is mostly half truths and lies.

 

Bas

Bas

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My old Motorhome is Petrol Driven, so I thought, most of the cars in Holland run perfectly OK on LPG, I'll get the 'Old Girl' converted and save a small fortune (well quite a bit anyhow !) I phone up a local converter and get the price £980 PLUS VAT ? I said surely there is no VAT on getting a Vehicle converted to run on a 'Green' fuel, Yes there is. And noother incentive either. Are the Government intrested in getting us to 'Go Green' ???? only if it costs US money and not them evidently.

No, i didn't go ahead, If they are not 'Bovvered' then I won't be. :D

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