catinou Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hi all, Does anybody reclaim part of the tax back from the cost of LPG, which is used solely for heating / domestic use in a motorhome? We are going to the NEC this weekend and on my husband's lists of "needs" ("wants" to me but he pays the bills!) is refillable lightweight fixed gas canisters. Being a bookkeeper I like to know the costs and benefits of anything to do with spending (unless I am doing it of course!) Somewhere in the dark recesses of my brain I recall something I have read / seen during the last couple of years that you can reclaim part of the excise duty on LPG purchased for use in motorhomes. Apparently the tax is different than tax charged for running your engine on LPG and you are charged the higher, vehicle running, amount at the pumps. Like a dog with a bone I searched the net and this site but can't find the info I need, so have telephoned the Customs & Excise office to enquire. They took some time to get the answer but finally came back to say that YES you can and they are sending me a copy of "Notice 184a" which will explain the excise situation - no hope of understanding that then. 8-) A very nice man called Craig then cheered me up no end by saying he would also send me the form H0294 to claim the relief :-D Being impatient, and being, hopefully, on the end of the postie's strike I then tried to find the above mentioned publications / forms - found the article (written in "customs speak" so no help there 8-) ) but have obviously got the reclaim form no. wrong, or did he give me the wrong one? Will he really send it? If anybody can answer this I would be grateful, if not I will get back to you when (if) I receive the info........ *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hi Catinou, we have this system fitted already and I have heard of this. From what I can gather the retailer is supposed to take the VAT off the price paid at delivery. But I have asked in one garage in the UK to be met with a totally blank look! Which to be fair to the guy in the kiosk is hardly surprising! If you want to claim the VAT back yourself, do you have to be VAT registered? Do you need receipts? How can the HMRC or the garage selling you the gas know what you are using it for? And can you claim on gas bought in other EU countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hi Stephen, I don't know all the answers yet but hope to be much wiser when the form arrives. I was told the following by HMCE No you don't have to be registered for VAT The retailer cannot refund the difference when purchased as they have the "pump price" and their own bookkeeping to deal with. I would say keep ALL receipts for LPG and as I am an i dotter and t crosser (and have some experience dealing with HM Rev & Customs) I would also keep fuel receipts, especially on same day of purchase, as this will prove you were buying fuel - diesel / petrol at the same time. As soon as I get the paperwork I will be back with more info - fingers crossed :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Unless you use a lot of gas its surely not going to be worth it. the difference is about 5p per litre as far as I can make out so you'd need to consume 20 litres just to get a quid back. If you can fill the gas cylinder at the right duty rate then yes go for it but surely its just not worth the bother of reclaiming the difference afterwards? Do a local search for a bulk gas supplier, in my area we have a Budget Gas depot who charge the correct duty rate for domestic gas. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I thought that the point of having a remote filler on these things was that you could fill up at filling stations without drawing their attention to the fact that you are refilling cylinders which, although safe and legal, they don't want to let you do. Or have a got the wrong end of yet another stick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 The real point of this thread Ralph is the fact that very few, if any, garages are set up to charge the correct, lower, duty rate for domestic fuel as opposed to road fuel. I was pointing out that a bulk gas supplier, such as Budget Gas in my area, charge the correct duty rate which is about 5p per litre lower than that for road fuel. I'm quite happy to save 5P per litre at the pump but I wouldn't bother trying to claim back that 5p difference if I'd paid the road fuel rate at a forecourt 'cos its just not worth the effort in my opinion. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 I agree to a point Dave but the old saying of "look after the pennies....." really works (for us anyway). We have a Honda generator, converted to use LPG, heating, hot water, fridge / freezer etc. all running off gas (or electric - which, if using the generator will be gas anyway *-) ) so are looking at heavier but more structured use of fuel than in our previous 'van. I suppose I have the bookkeeper mentality and don't mind receipts / paperwork etc. but can see it is not for all. I followed a previous thread on this forum and we have now duly signed up for an Asda credit card, which will give us 2p per litre off our diesel for the 'van as well as petrol for our cars, so thought I would add this tip too. The thought of saving 2p / 5p here or there makes an old(ish) lady very happy - sad but true B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Whatever floats your boat babe ;-) . D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-10-18 9:00 AM The real point of this thread Ralph is the fact that very few, if any, garages are set up to charge the correct, lower, duty rate for domestic fuel as opposed to road fuel. D. Understood Dave. What I was trying to say was that if, as we have been told, garages ban or discourage the filling of cylinders on "health and safety" grounds they are hardly likely to go to the effort of setting up a system to charge the correct rate of VAT. As for the 5p, I guess you both have a point there. It's only 5p but that's 10% which sounds a bit more :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I would think the book keeping for the garage would be a nightmare. As I understand it the fuel he has purchased he will have paid the normal road duty VAT on. If he had to sell it on at the domestic rate of VAT then he would have to claim back the difference between the two rates from C&E. For the volumes he sells, unless he has a magic computer system and a trusting C&E officer, then it will not be worth the bother, just charge the same rate, which is no great hardship in the big picture. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Agreed wholeheartedly - but the reclaim will be direct from the Customs office so even 1p is worth being in our pockets rather than Gordon Brown's..... >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DJP Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Is it not an offence for a supplier of goods/services to knowingly charge an incorrect VAT rate on any product/service? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 DJP - 2007-10-19 7:36 PM Is it not an offence for a supplier of goods/services to knowingly charge an incorrect VAT rate on any product/service? *-) Then he won't sell you it! What do you do then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkmoy Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Ralph - 2007-10-18 8:22 AM I thought that the point of having a remote filler on these things was that you could fill up at filling stations without drawing their attention to the fact that you are refilling cylinders which, although safe and legal, they don't want to let you do. Or have a got the wrong end of yet another stick? Has anyone had a problem with this? Do filling stations really take exception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Ther is a Calor depot in Liverpool which doesn't charge vat on domestic gas,but over the river the Calor depot in Ellesmere Port does charge vat and makes no distinction. Other gas depots Flogas and Alta gas in the area depends on who serves you. Whatever it's still cheaper that buying it bottled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 parkmoy - 2007-10-20 11:27 AM Has anyone had a problem with this? Do filling stations really take exception? There have been reports of refusal on other threads/ sites but only where attempts were made to fill the cylinders directly i.e. with no proper filling point, or where the person wanting to fill was seen to open the gas locker door to fill and the filling station personel presumably assumed they were filling the cylinders direct. The filling of cylinders directly is not allowed, but that probably stems more from the actions of Calor UK than anything when they wrote round to all the filling stations they supplied and suggested they would refuse to supply them if they allowed refilling on their forcourts. This was due to some cylinders not being fitted with an 80% shut off valve, or so they said, you can make up your own mind! That is my understanding anyway. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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