locovan Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Emission Charges - As Our Motor caravaning Club seems to be sitting back on this subject I have taken upon myself to start a petition. As not all of us have a new Motorhome. I love my older van and do not wish to "scrap it." For many a pensioner it is not an option. My petition has been approved by the Number 10 web team, and Is now available on the Number 10 website at the following Address: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/motorhomes/ My petition reads: We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Exempt Motorhomes from the new Emission Charges. Motorhome Owners average Mileage in England is aprox 6,000 per Year. We rally at weekends and enjoy holidays around the Country as well. The Hobby is enjoyed by retired couples and so We cannot afford fines or scrap our vehicles, as advised in Many of the articles on the subject. Our carbon footprint is Very small compared to Lorries English and foreign Lorries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 well done duly signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 just a ps ive heard there are other forums that you might want to post this on the more the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Tell me where and I will do it as I never thought I would get such a great response. I have e-mailed Ken Livingston as i do not want to scrap my van and throw away £24000, The Managing Director of Tesco as I was told he owned a Motorhome and the Camping Clubs, the Rac and the AA. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Whilst I've also signed (in order to make a point), technically, I'm not sure that I'm entirely in agreement with the petition as far as it affects me personally. I have little objection to, for instance, the congestion zone, in the way that it originally was implemented. Exemption for residents (of which I am not one), and an affordable charge for those that weren't. I do acknowledge that the goalposts are now moving. If a similar and sensible appraoch were taken with the LEZ (target commercial operators with a deterrent charge, exempt resident non-commercial operators, and institute an affordable charge for non-resident, non-commercial operators) then I think I would not object. The proposed level of charging for what are essentially niche, non-commercial vehicles, seems to me to be a nonsense. Unfortunately, I suspect it is the thin end of a very big wedge, across the EU in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Residents are not exempt so Im doing this for the members that live in London and face a fine of £100 out and £100 in everytime they move their vans . We all travel on the M25 and if there was an accident and we were diverted off the Motorway in our older vans (pre 2002) we could all end up paying the £100 in and £100 out and if we do not pay within 28 days it is £1000 a day until we pay. Also what if travelling on the M25 we needed a hospital in an emergency. We have asked how much a conversion would be and was told there isnt one so scrap your van. Its in London feb 2008 and being phased to feb 2010 where it could be any town like the congestion charge is being planned for more towns. What also annoyed me was that Foriegn Lorries are exempt. It is on these points that I ask you all to back this petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 try these... wildcamping.co.uk....motorhomefacts.com.....motorhomefun.co.uk................motorhometoday.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 locovan - 2007-10-17 8:25 PM Residents are not exempt so Im doing this for the members that live in London and face a fine of £100 out and £100 in everytime they move their vans . Sorry, I posted rather quickly and probably didn't make my point clear. I understand the lack of exemption for residents, and would support your view on it being unfair. What I was trying to point out was that I would have no problem (as a non-resident) being charged for the LEZ, as long as any charge was set reasonably for private individuals, and in recognition of the specific factors governing motorhomes, and the level of emissions they would be responsible for. The petition calls only for exemption, which is at variance with the above. I'm in agreement with the spirit of the petition, but not necessarily the letter (but very happy to add weight to any debate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Thanks for your reply I will contact these web sites straight away. I want to get it in as many places as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 I've added mine too,although i have no intention of ever setting foot or wheel in London again. I just feel that this move is totally unfair on Motorhome owners who live within the LEZ boundries. Mine is Twenty years old but petrol engined, and so far,unaffected. BUT they havn't finished yet !!! >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 http://www.truckuk.net/publications.asp read all about it on this web site it is well laid out I have put it other sites and it is getting a good response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Mavis, I signed your petition after seeing it mentioned yesterday on www.motorhomefun.co.uk but I nearly didn't. Why? because I looked at the "sign by" date and thought it was already expired. I then went and looked again and realised that it's not expiring till 16th October 2008, a whole year! I can't help feeling that if they aren't even going to see it for a year it will be a bit late? Do you have any control over this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hi Ralph I will keep e-mailing it to Ken Livingston to tell him how it is progressing, but I left it open for a year as the law is spread out over two years. I wanted to get as many names as possible ( and in 2 days the response is so good) as that is the only way I felt I could let them know how we feel. If you have any advice I will listen. In the mean time I hope the Clubs and AA and RAC will help me on this we are not comercial vehicles we are classed as private light goods. As someone pointed out Chertsey CC is in the area. This not just through London Town it is everywhere off the London side of the M25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champstar Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Hi I have just signed my name to this. Although living in Scotland this doesnt affect me directly..we have to stand together to preserve or hobby and way of life. well done on a great idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 try this site http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/chatter/default.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 locoman..i dont know if you are aware that livingstone is on the radio monthly from 9am to 10 am to answer questions, its on lbc 97.3 and is available on sky.he was on today so the next time will be 4 weeks today could be worth a try he will take any question on london issues.. if you fancy it i will get you the phone no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Yes please I will have a go I feel like a one woman crusader at the moment. A VERY NERVOUS ONE. :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Just keeping you all informed of info I get I have had a e-mail today saying:- The LEZ is (supposedly) aimed at improving air quality, not reducing global warming. I think (though I may be wrong) that most classic vehicles are petrol engined, so not affected (cars in general are not affected). Interesting that Livingstone hasn't included taxis amongst the vehicles which have to comply - obviously commercial but I expect too much of an outcry if he did so. also another Re:Emission Charges - 2007/10/18 20:29 This problem doesn't just apply in the UK. I am aware that the Féderation International de Clubs de Motorhomes (France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Luxembourg, Italy and the UK [both MCC and HCI] membership) has petitioned Paolo Costa, the Chairman of the transport committee in Brussels to try to get something done. When questioned by letter, the official response from Fiat was that particulate filters cannot be retro fitted to older vehicles. Similar responses are expected from the manufacturers of engines for other base vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 locovan - 2007-10-18 7:10 PM Yes please I will have a go I feel like a one woman crusader at the moment. A VERY NERVOUS ONE. :$ Mavis, You are doing a fine job on our behalf. Like many others I don't have any intention of going into the LEZ if I can avoid it but, as you have pointed out, it's not just the city. And anyway, London today and others follow tomorrow so we need to try to do something. Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Just a bit of history: During the consultation stage for the LEZ, most leisure bodies whose members use larger vehicles affected by it met together under the auspices of the CCPR (Central Council for Physical Recreation) to try and get such vehicles exempted. Included were the Caravan Club, Caravan Council (the commercial body), Royal Yacht Club on behalf of yachting, and the national body representing people with horses. Meetings were held with the LEZ people, but, in the end, no exemption was made. As I understand it, one reason was that the Zone is to be policed automatically, using automatic recognition cameras, and it is impossible, at reasonable cost, to devise a system whereby these camera systems exempt certain leisure use vehicles. For example, it may be a Horse Box, but is it family on their way to a gymkana or race horses going to Epsom? It may be a Fiat van, but is it converted to a motor caravan? And unfortunately, even if the system could be programmed to make use of the V5 vehicle type data, many motorhomes are not properly registered as such. Let me be absolutely clear that I am NOT, in any way, supporting the LEZ for leisure-use vehicles; I am simply explaining how we've got to where we are today. There will doubtless be those who criticise the Caravan Club et al for failing to get minds changed. I really do think that, in this case, they have done their level best. Of course, if this were France, we would now block the London Inner Ring Road with a sea of caravans, yacht trailers, glider trailers and horse boxes and keep repeating the protest until something sensible is done. Unfortunately, many members of the public see smoky horse boxes, slow motorhomes and caravans as fair game, so there's no guarantee that we would get the support we all believe we deserve! Hope that helps explain a little! Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
locovan Posted October 19, 2007 Author Share Posted October 19, 2007 Thanks for this reply but Im confused on one issue. I thought you have to register your vehicle first whether it complies or not. That then goes on a data base so if the vehicle complies and you enter that Zone the camera picks up the registration and checks the data base. If it complies as registered then no fine is issued if it doesnt comply then it automacticly issues a fine to your address. So if it can do that then the agument that it cannot exempt any vehical is void because it already exempts from a fine all those vehicles that comply. I wont have a Motor Home to part exchange because people will not want to buy a vehicle that doesnt comply. I cannot sit back and let them tell me to scrap my Motor Home do I park it up and let roses grow round the door and be the quiet shy RETIRED person. Regards Mavis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 locovan as promised lbc phone no is 0845 6060973 seee website lbc.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Maybe Boris will win the election and common sense will prevail in 'Old London Town' once again and there will not be any charges for entering the area!!! (I know, wishful thinking!!) Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 So, they can't (at a reasonable cost...to themselves) sort out Commercially used vehicles from leisure vehicles, We are ALL doomed ! Doomed I tell you ! If their records are in THAT much of a mess ! they just mean they aren't going to use any more computing power than they have to.The result is that many,many people will face GROSS injustice. I've signed the Petition, Now exactly where abouts in Paliament Square do you want us to park (and immoblize) our Vans ???? >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 locovan - 2007-10-19 11:11 AM Thanks for this reply but Im confused on one issue. I thought you have to register your vehicle first whether it complies or not. No this is not so, if you go to TfL's website and look at the page on LEZ you will find you can enter your registration and it will tell you when you will be affected, it is taken from the DVLA database. You will also find on there the names of two (possibly three now) companies who are registered to do conversions to make vehicles comply. Sevel, MB, Iveco and Renault base vehicles can all be converted but the cost is prohibitive (currently being quoted around £2-3000 mark). This is also not a London or even Chairman Ken initiative but is an EU directive that is already implemented in at least Germany, the difference is Chairman Kens punitive cost the German (Umwelt tax I believe it is called) is banded and is from 0 to 30 Euro per day. remember it is intended to eventually be brought in in all cities, the others in this land are watching London. As well as the campsite you have mentioned also Abbey Wood, Crystal Palace and Lea Valley are within the Zone, as well as several major motorhome dealers. If anyone thinks change cannot be made, remember the government have dropped the 'Road Pricng' inititive. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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