emissions

[GJH]

Mel E - 2007-10-19 10:53 AM

 

Just a bit of history:

 

During the consultation stage for the LEZ, most leisure bodies whose members use larger vehicles affected by it met together under the auspices of the CCPR (Central Council for Physical Recreation) to try and get such vehicles exempted. Included were the Caravan Club, Caravan Council (the commercial body), Royal Yacht Club on behalf of yachting, and the national body representing people with horses.

 

Meetings were held with the LEZ people, but, in the end, no exemption was made. As I understand it, one reason was that the Zone is to be policed automatically, using automatic recognition cameras, and it is impossible, at reasonable cost, to devise a system whereby these camera systems exempt certain leisure use vehicles. For example, it may be a Horse Box, but is it family on their way to a gymkana or race horses going to Epsom? It may be a Fiat van, but is it converted to a motor caravan? And unfortunately, even if the system could be programmed to make use of the V5 vehicle type data, many motorhomes are not properly registered as such.

 

Let me be absolutely clear that I am NOT, in any way, supporting the LEZ for leisure-use vehicles; I am simply explaining how we've got to where we are today.

 

There will doubtless be those who criticise the Caravan Club et al for failing to get minds changed. I really do think that, in this case, they have done their level best. Of course, if this were France, we would now block the London Inner Ring Road with a sea of caravans, yacht trailers, glider trailers and horse boxes and keep repeating the protest until something sensible is done. Unfortunately, many members of the public see smoky horse boxes, slow motorhomes and caravans as fair game, so there's no guarantee that we would get the support we all believe we deserve!

 

Hope that helps explain a little!

 

Mel E

====

 

Following Mel's similar posting on another thread I contacted TfL and obtained the confirmation that amongst the data fields they obtain from DVLA is Body Type. They will use this to differentiate between light vans and estate cars (e.g. models such as Citroen Berlingo, Fiat Doblo).

 

The way the "automatic" systems work is that the camera identifies the number plate and that information is used to pull up the vehicle details which can then be compared against compliance parameters.

 

I take the point that many motorhomes are not registered as such but it is easily within the power of TfL, using their current system, to identify and exempt any vehicle with a Body Type of "Motor Caravan". If they choose not to do so then that is a deliberate act and not the consequence of an unsophisticated system.

 

Graham

[pagey]

exactly graham livingstone can identify motorhomes he is just being pig headed ,just for the record i dont live in the lez for me its more of his attitude of do as your told i agree in principle of the lez but how much do motorhomes polute compared to white van man, i have seen the agruement that if it effects the van drivers and whats the difference with motorhomes my stance is show me a 2001 transit poorley maintained thats worth £20,000 plus i think more like £1000 and at least it earns its money i just dont think it should apply to leisure vehicles

[locovan]

Here is what the SMMT and the Caravan Club said in their consultation papers to Ken:

 

SMMT

 

The SMMT say the motorhomes should not be included in the LEZ:

Seeks reconsideration of inclusion of motor caravans in LEZ because the numbers of motorhomes in London in very small: The overall number of motorhomes in use in the UK is 136,000 out of total parc of some 30 million vehicles

They also make the point that you have made regarding the costs:

Motorhomes are leisure vehicles, not commercial ones: their inclusion in the proposed LEZ has major implications for their owners, private individuals, not businesses. The economic implications for owners who live within London boroughs cannot be compared to a business that has the option to replace, renew, move or upgrade.

Motorhomes travel very low mileages: the average mileage travelled by motorhomes is about 6,000 miles per annum, close to fifty percent of all other vehicles, and considerably less than commercial vehicles.

The SMMT cannot understand why anyone would want to travel through London in a motorhomes unless absolutely necessary( confirms what you said yesterday about a sudden hospital trip):

Motorhomes are used sparingly in urban environments: anecdotal evidence suggests that the motorhomes are not extensively used in urban environments.

 

This will effect the tourism industry:

the zone may have a significant deterrent effect on potential visitors to London . So much so that rather than tackling onerous form filling, tourists from overseas and elsewhere in the UK will simply seek alternative destinations for their tourism spend.

The LEZ could deter tourism: many users of motorhomes do come to visit the capital, often basing themselves on sites within the Greater London boundary, but then using public transport to reach the centre. The charge would be a deterrent to tourism by motorhomes. Motorhomes are more popular on mainland Europe than they are here. It is very likely these will be used to visit the Olympics and the charge would be a deterrent to tourism at a peak time for London and the UK .

 

Caravan Club

 

It is wrong and inaccurate to include motorhomes in the LEZ. Ken has said that cars are exempt and motorhomes are in effect a private car. They are not a commercial vehicle which is what Ken is classifying them as. Here is what the Caravan Club had to say:

The proposed amendment to the LEZ Scheme Order is fundamentally flawed in its placing of motor caravans in a vehicle category other than M1. Paragraphs 2(d), 2(e), 2(f) and 2(g) state that motor caravans can form part of vehicle categories N1, N2 and N3. This is incorrect. The UN ECE document 'Classification and Definition of Power-Driven Vehicles and Trailers' provides a definition of a motor caravan as a special purpose M1 category vehicle constructed to include accommodation space with specified equipment. This equipment should be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.

While it is likely that the base vehicle on which most motor caravans are constructed would fall into one of the ‘N’ categories, once conversion to a motor caravan has taken place, the vehicle moves to category M1, irrespective of its size, weight, engine capacity etc, which means that in classification terms it becomes a ‘motor car’. It has been stated in the LEZ proposal that it is not intended to include cars in the LEZ at this stage.

The LEZ is not clear on how it decides whether a vehicle is compliant or not. We have to take their word for it and there is no way to independently check if they are doing this correctly. Here is what the CC said.

[The Caravan Club are] Not convinced that owners and potential owners of specific models of motor caravan will have easy access to the relevant information needed to judge whether their vehicle is compliant with the LEZ requirements or not. As an example, the current VCA CarFuelData website lists only one diesel engine option (2.3l) for the pre-2007 Fiat Ducato (the most common motor caravan base vehicle choice), when in fact two further engine choices were commonly specified (2.0l and 2.8l).

The LEZ is said to target heavy vehicles only however, the CC found:

The proposal is stated as aiming to target ‘heavier diesel engine motor caravans ambulances and hearses’. By our estimate, the defined weight threshold at which vehicles would potentially become compliant (2500kg) would include over 98% of all motor caravan models currently available in the UK . In effect, all motor caravans are therefore potentially within scope, and not merely the ‘heavier’ ones.

The CC also made comments about effecting the tourism industry:

Caravanners make a positive contribution to local communities, with Club member families currently spending on average at least £40 per day on local purchases, amounting to over £270 million per annum.

The difficulties facing vehicle users in understanding/complying with this proposal are magnified when the leisure use (ie motor caravan) sector is considered, as opposed to the commercial vehicle sector. An infrequent leisure visitor is very unlikely to be willing to make such efforts for what might be their only leisure trip into the zone during their ownership of the vehicle. They are likely, therefore, to avoid travelling to London entirely, even if their vehicle might actually be compliant with the zone requirements. By doing so, they will not, therefore, support the many tourist destinations within the LEZ, nor the large number of businesses which support tourist trips.

Nine of out the top ten most visited attractions in the UK during 2006 would fall within the LEZ. To visit such attractions without the risk of incurring an LEZ charge, motor caravan-based visitors would have to base themselves outside the LEZ, thus deterring them from accessing locations such as The Club’s sites at Crystal Palace, Abbey Wood and possibly Alderstead Heath, all of which have effective public transport links into Greater and Central London. Such issues will become increasing significant in 2012. The experience on the World Cup in Germany during 2006 was that vast numbers of national and international visitors choose to make their trips by motor caravan, and there is every reason to think that the Olympics, with its even greater multi-venue characteristic will generate similar visitor patterns.

 

 

 

 

These are comments from the manuafacturers and traders association and Caravan Club. Two big and powerful speakers. But Ken has chosen to ignore them.

 

The relevant part is para 4.2 “classes specified. Eg, M1, M2 etc etc , And this is what is says in European Law:

 

 

 

5. "Special purpose vehicle" means a vehicle intended to perform a function which requires

 

special body arrangements and/or equipment. This category shall include wheel-chair

 

accessible vehicles.

 

5.1. "Motor Caravan" means a special purpose M category vehicle constructed to include living

 

accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:

 

– seats and table,

 

– sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats,

 

– cooking facilities, and

 

– storage facilities.

 

This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be

 

designed to be easily removable.

 

 

 

 

 

So this clearly states that a motor caravan is an M class vehicle. Now, there are different types of M class. See this:

 

 

 

1. Category M: Motor vehicles with at least four wheels designed and constructed for the

 

carriage of passengers.

 

Category M1: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers and

 

comprising no more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat.

 

Category M2: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers,

 

comprising more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, and

 

having a maximum mass not exceeding 5 tonnes.

 

Category M3: Vehicles designed and constructed for the carriage of passengers,

 

comprising more than eight seats in addition to the driver's seat, and

 

having a maximum mass exceeding 5 tonnes.

 

 

 

So by my reckoning, a motor caravan falls under M1 class. Ie, exempt from the LEZ.

 

 

 

If this is correct, that means that Kens LEZ contradicts and conflicts itself. On the one hand, cars, ie M1 vehicles are exempt but motor caravan are not. He can’t have it both ways.

 

 

 

Now I am not sure when this new European Law comes into force, or indeed, if it is already is force. If this is true, we should be exempt!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pagey]

well done mavis

[locovan]

I have now contacted the European Parliment Direct, I'm waiting for an E-mails I will let you know when I get a reply.

Also I have contacted the Prime Minister direct and asked him to answer my Question on if we are M 1 class why arent we exempt.

I have had no answer from Boris Or Livingstone but I have the telephone Number to talk to him on the radio.

I have even done a Google Blog Http://Ramondos.blogspot.com/

 

What more can I do for as I see it Time is running out as some members come in the Feb 2008 Deadline.

 

[locovan]

This is and anouncement from Volvo I Have emailed Fiat for their comments

Automakers are making all sorts of modifications to existing models to beat the 120 g/km of CO2 limit for free entry into London when the Congestion Charge rules change (e.g., Audi A3, 16 models from Peugeot, and 23 from Citroën). For trucks and other large vehicles, the key date is February 2008, when new rules for the London Low Emission Zone (LEZ) kick in. In preparation, Volvo Trucks is broadcasting loud and clear that some of their trucks will be exempt from the incredibly pricey £200 entry fee.

 

The LEZ rules will be introduced in phases, and Volvo's PR materials say that, "The good news is that all Volvo engines supplied to the UK market since 1993, including all the 12-litre Euro 1 and Euro 2 D12A to D12C power units fitted to the first FH and FM trucks, all the D16's fitted to the first generation FH16's and also the D6A fitted to the FL6, meet or exceed the Euro 3 emission levels required for entering the capital." Trucks will still need to be inspected annually to prove they are indeed still "low emission" vehicles.

 

[source: Volvo]

 

[locovan]

I passed on the question of Class MI to the Minister of Transport Office (reply below)

My Local MP has written also to the Treasury Minister and asked for her comments I will let you know what these are as soon as I hear.

I have copied my petition and all the people signing it 243 so far and sent that to Ken Livingstone and that is the all I seem to be able to do.

I will just let the petition run and keep sending it in to him all through next year

If you havent signed please do The Link is http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/motorhomes/

 

FROM The Minister OF Transport Office

LOW EMISSION ZONE

Thank you for your emails of 29 October 2007 regarding the European classification of motorcaravans and their operation in the Low Emission Zone (LEZ).

You are correct in your understanding of the European classification given to your vehicle. Transport for London (TfL) is aware that motorcaravans are legally defined as passenger carrying vehicles and so fall into the M1 category. However, because the emissions from these vehicles may be substantially higher than those from passenger cars, TfL has included the vehicles in this class within the scope of the LEZ and are defined as such in Annex 2 of the Scheme Order. As explained previously, such vehicles have similar emissions characteristics to the Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs) and Light Goods Vehicles (LGVs) from which they are derived, and as such TfL considers that they should be applied to the same emissions requirements

 

Operators of lorries, buses, coaches and all other vehicles over 3.5 tonnes which do not meet the LEZ standards will need to pay a daily charge of £200. There will be a £100 charge for non-compliant minibuses, large vans and all other vehicles 3.5 tonnes and under, affected from 2010, for each charging day they are driving in the zone. I fully appreciate your situation but the level of charge has been set in order to encourage operators to clean up their vehicles rather than pay the daily charge.

 

I would like to re-iterate that there are still options available to you to comply with the scheme (and thus avoid the daily charge) including: fitting particulate abatement equipment to the vehicle or certifying that an eligible engine meets the required standard. TfL has a set up a dedicated enquiries service to help vehicle owners understand what the LEZ means for them and what they may have to do to comply with the scheme. The call centre can be contacted on 0845 607 0009. Alternatively, further information about the LEZ can be found on TfL’s website at: www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon.

 

The LEZ was subject to two rounds of public and stakeholder consultation during 2006-07. The LEZ remains the most effective option for achieving reductions of the most harmful road transport generated emissions in London between 2008 and 2015. Further information on the public consultation and the need to implement the LEZ can be found on TfL’s website at: www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/furtherinfo.

 

 

Policy Officer

 

London Low Emission Zone

 

[Basil]

Hi All,

 

I don't know what to say about this. I have been trying to raise the profile of the LEZ myself for some while and it seems to be falling on deaf ears, perhaps no one really cares that our hobby is being attacked this way or maybe everyone has new compliant (at the moment) motorhomes, remember today London tomorrow you may be banned from driving it at all.

This petition has been running for nearly a month now and only has 263 signatures out of how many motorhome owners? The petition against Road Pricing had over half a million in a similar period and they have only half listened to that as that is only a small proportion of the car owning public.

Sorry but I hate to say it but I think we are doomed to failure!!

But well done Locovan for your efforts.

 

Bas

[Mickt]

Been on Transport for London today, if you give them your registation number they will confirm if you comply or not . They will also confirm this in writing or email. I am lucky mine was registered july 2003 and this complies till 3rd jan 2012. What happens then, will they lower the emision levels?Phone  number to ring is 08456070009

[Basil]

Quite possible Mickt, remember Euro V and VI are currently on the table ready for introduction.

 

Bas

[Mickt]

Mine is a 2.8jtd which is Euro 3

[GJH]

What happens in January 2012 is that the standard for certain vehicles, including Motor Caravans heavier than 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle Weight, is raised to Euro IV. If your van is less than 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle Weight it simply has to meet the Euro III standard by October 2010.

 

Full details are on the TfL web site Here.

 

You can also check your vehicle on-line Here. Entering the details of our van (which is under 3.5 tonnes GVW) brings up the results: 04/02/2008 Not subject to LEZ; 04/10/2010 Compliant. I assume that for a van heavier than 3.5 tonnes GVW the system will give details based on the January 2012 date as well.

 

Graham

 

 

[locovan]

Make sure you vote for Boris as I had this from his office after I e-mailed the petition link to him

 

Dear Ms Nye,

 

Thank you very much for bringing this particular issue to our attention. All your comments and suggestions are greaty appreciated.

Boris Johnson's campaign is at present holding 'working groups' throughout London to develop solutions for London.

We have had a lot of correspondence about the predicted emission charges and we should be putting more information on our website about this issue soon.

I will in the meantime make sure your comments will get forwarded to the relevant people for future discussion groups (as stated below. )

Many thanks again and kind regards,

Georgiana

 

Housing

 

Stephen Greenhalgh

Sean Bailey - Conservative Candidate for Hammersmith

Angela Harvey

Mike Freer

Simon Randall - Chairman of Broomleigh Homes

Mira Bar-Hillel _ Evening Standard.

James Cartlidge - Sharetobuy

Alan de Botton

Tony Pidgley - Berkeley Homes

Peter Redfern - Taylor Wimpey

 

Planning and Regeneration

 

John Moss

Terry Farrell

Peter Golds

Sir Stuart Lipton

Sir Peter Hall

Nick Paget-Brown (K&C)

 

Peter Thompson (Leader, Hounslow – Heathrow impact, balancing development in west as well as east etc)

 

Michael Heseltine

 

Peter Stoker - Commercial Director Bellway PLC

 

 

Rail

 

Steve Norris

Kulveer Ranger

Stephen Hammond

 

Matthew Offord, Barnet

 

Colin Smith, Bromley

 

Daniel Moylan

James Morris

Joe Weiss - London Corporation

 

Value for Money

 

Ian Corby

Kit Malthouse

Eddie Lister

 

Olympics

 

Kate Hoey

Philip Hammond

Brian Coleman

Iain Wilton

David Shaw

Geoff Parsons

Lord MacLaurin

Alan Mendoza

Crime

Ray Lewis

Ian Clement

Greg Smith

Richard Barnes

James Brokenshire MP

Victoria Borwick

John Stevens/Nick Herbert are trying to come up with a police name to help.

 

 

 

Health

 

 

 

1. Professor Nick Bosanquet, Professor of Health Policy at Imperial

College London

2. Dr. Tim Crayford, DPH & Medical Director, Corydon PCT.

President, Association of Directors of Public Health (UK).

3. Sir Jonathan Michael, former Chief Executive, Guy and St. Thomas

Trust

4. Henry Pitman - Formerly Chief Executive, Tribal Group

5. Rachel Joyce (PPC Harrow, public health expert used to work for

A PCT)

 

6. Andy Jones (GP and on candidates list, a leading health expert

In UK)

7. Margot James

8. Lurline Champagnie! (who is happy with the above)

 

9. Lynne Hillan (Barnet), Vice-Chair on the Health & Adult Services Forum and Portfolio Holder in Barnet

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ralph]

locovan - 2007-11-14 12:30 AM

 

Make sure you vote for Boris as I had this from his office after I e-mailed the petition link to him

 

 

I don't want to be political but what makes you say "Vote for Boris"?

I don't see any evidence that he will scrap the proposals. Indeed it's not usual for any party to scrap unpopular legislation if they can blame their predecessor. :'(

[Ralph]

GJH - 2007-11-13 6:38 PM

 

You can also check your vehicle on-line Here. Entering the details of our van (which is under 3.5 tonnes GVW) brings up the results: 04/02/2008 Not subject to LEZ; 04/10/2010 Compliant.

 

 

Thanks Graham, a very useful link. Mine gave the same results as yours for what it's worth.

 

 

[locovan]

Sorry I was joking really but at least I had an answer to my e-mail.

I have sent e-mails to so many places with no answer's and Boris is now talking to so many people in power which was nice to hear.

We travel through the Dartford toll and are charge as cars. £1.00.

We are taxed the same as a car (private light goods)

What happens at a MOT if our emmissions are correct even in an older Motorhome.

A petrol run Motorhome can throw out as many bad emmissions and get away with it and what makes a Black cab exempt only that the goverment do not want to upset them so Im afraid this is a very political subject.

But thanks for all your support in this.

 

 

[Ralph]

I recognize that it is, indeed, political but unless Boris (or anyone else for that matter) is prepared to openly support your petition then he is no more worthy of your vote than anyone else. Since I don't actually live in London I don't have a vote anyway

I support your petition but I don't think that it's a good idea to be misled by politicians.

Good luck.

[locovan]

Update to my Petition

 

From the Minister of State

Rt Hon Rosie Winterton MP

 

 

Julian Brazier TD MP

House of Commons

London

SW1A OAA

 

Dear Julian

Thank you for your letter of 29 October enclosing correspondence from your constituent Mrs Mavis Nye about the classification of motorhomes and the London low emissions zone (LLEZ)

I have noted Mrs Nye's concerns but, following the creation of the Greater London Authority. Transport for London (TFL) (under the Mayors jurisdiction) is now responsible for the day to day management of the transport services in London (with exception of the National Railway at present.)

 

Parliament gave the Mayor of London the powers to introduce road charging schemes in Greater London in the Greater London Authority (GLA) act 1999 which created the Greater London Authority.

The aim of the scheme is to improve air quality for those living, working or studying in London, as well as to help London and the UK move closer to achieving national and EU air quality targets.

The Government remains committed to improving air quality and the Department for Transport supports the aims of the LLEZ

Mrs Nye is correct in suggesting that in principle, motorhomes are classified as Category M1 vehicles under European Vehicle approval regulations Unfortunately some motorhome converters use the base vehicles type approval details (usually the base vehicle is a truck chassis, which is category N 1) to gain registration and thus the vehicle is recorded within DVLA as N1 category and not M1.

The records held at DVLA will determine the category of emission charges.

If Mrs Nye's registration certificate (document V5C) shows the vehicle as a Motorhome but an N1 type approval category she should return it to DVLA with a covering letter for amendment.

I hope this explains the position

Rosie Winterton

 

These are some extracts from the original letter.

 

My next petition will be to stop cutting the rain forest down as we will run out of oxygen soon

 

[twooks]

Of course, those of you who are members of the 'clubs' could always try asking them to lobby on behalf of their members - although it should be noted that the Caravan Club have been approached to lobby on behalf on their Motorhome members at least once before when they told us to get lost. Too busy worrying about caravans being restricted to 50mph on their slog into Cornwall to get involved I guess.

 

B-)

[GJH]

twooks - 2007-12-08 4:21 PM

 

Of course, those of you who are members of the 'clubs' could always try asking them to lobby on behalf of their members - although it should be noted that the Caravan Club have been approached to lobby on behalf on their Motorhome members at least once before when they told us to get lost. Too busy worrying about caravans being restricted to 50mph on their slog into Cornwall to get involved I guess.

 

B-)

The Caravan Club did make representations but they were dismissed by the GLA/TfL. Details are in the documents listed Here. The CC submissions are in Annex D, pages 36/37. SMMT made similar submissions - but counter arguments were made by other local authorities (pp 37/38).

 

Graham

[locovan]

I found this last night are we fogetting it is also in Europe

why cant we do it like Germany

 

From 1 January 2008 a total of 33 German cities will require all motorists to purchase a "Pollution Badge" in the form of a windscreen sticker in order to enter city centre ‘Umwelt Zones’ (green zones).

 

The participating cities are: Augsburg, Berlin, Braunschweig, Köln (Cologne), Darmstadt, Dresden, Düsseldorf, Essen, Frankfurt am Main, Hannover, Heidelberg, Islfeld, Karlsruhe, Kassel, Leipzig, Leonburg, Ludwigsburg, Madgeburg, Mannheim, Mühlacker, München (Munich), Neu-Ulm, Nürnberg (Nuremberg), Pforzheim, Pleidelsheim, Regensburg, Reutlingen, Ruhr Area, Schwäbish-Gmund, Stuttgart, Tübingen and Ulm.

 

You must present your vehicle registration document at Pollution Badge (Umwelt Plakette) sales outlets, including vehicle repair centres, car dealers, MOT (Tüv) stations and vehicle licensing offices, and you will be issued with a badge, coloured (Red/Yellow/Green) according to your vehicle’s Euro emission rating.

 

The cost of the badge is understood to be between €5 and €10 and, once issued, covers you throughout Germany for the life of your vehicle. Failure to display a badge could incur a fine of €40. Enforcement will be managed by the police, local authorities and traffic wardens.

 

The system seems fairer than the LEZ as it effects all motor vehicles and the badge lasts for the life of the vehicle and covers all the participating cities.

 

However, legal struggles are still ongoing, especially regarding older motorhomes: The problem is that almost 50% of all German motorhomes are too old to get a Pollution Badge at all, at least without retrofitting a particle filter. And the makers of refit particle filters are not too much interested here, as there would be many different filter models required, each only for a very low total number of vehicles.

 

So, if it goes as planned then the Umwelt Zone scheme would effectively ground a large number of German motorhomes. To avoid a legal defeat, German authorities currently think about making exceptions: Maybe that owners of affected vehicles who live in an Umwelt Zone will be allowed to travel in and out of their zones. Another discussed model is to make an exception for motorhomes in general.

 

Meanwhile also the motorhome manufacturers have realized that not - as they had obviously hoped earlier - all owners of such old motorhomes will run and buy shiny new ones. So they now also have started campaigning for exceptions.

 

The fact that local councils, the federal states, and the federal gouvernment all have their say in this, does not exactly make things easier, so it could even happen that the introduction of Umwelt Zones will be delayed once again.

 

 

 

 

[armstrongpiper]

Added my name today. I agree with some of the comments which state that they would think some control of emissions in cities is not not such a bad thing, but this sledgehammer to crack a nut is not fair. And, is it really the case that foreign lorries are exempt? Why not re-register our MHs abroad, then? Flippane, maybe, but is it possible?

 

 

Neil B

[enodreven]

Hi,

 

Has anyone found a suitable conversion product for the Fiat 2.8JTD engine that will raise it from Euro III to V or VI as if there were enough of us that wanted these perhaps we could obtain a competitive price.

 

Perhaps we should compile a list of vehicles/engines that require modification and make contact with some of the aftermarket particulate abatement equipment.

 

Hope this helps

 

I will start a POLL just to see what types of engines people have how may wish to find aftermarket particulate abatement equipment.

 

Brian

[twooks]

locovan - 2007-12-10 10:37 AM

 

I found this last night are we fogetting it is also in Europe

why cant we do it like Germany

 

 

The cost of the badge is understood to be between €5 and €10 and, once issued, covers you throughout Germany for the life of your vehicle. Failure to display a badge could incur a fine of €40. Enforcement will be managed by the police, local authorities and traffic wardens.

 

The system seems fairer than the LEZ as it effects all motor vehicles and the badge lasts for the life of the vehicle and covers all the participating cities.

 

 

Sounds ok to me, of course it's almost obligatory in the UK to apply the most complicated [and so so so expensive] sledgehammer to every nut proposed - and Ken isn't noted for doing things cheaply anyway.

 

re CC - thanks for that Graham - good to know they can put their heads above the parapet occasionally for us motorhomers

 

B-)

[GJH]

armstrongpiper - 2007-12-10 11:20 AM

 

Added my name today. I agree with some of the comments which state that they would think some control of emissions in cities is not not such a bad thing, but this sledgehammer to crack a nut is not fair. And, is it really the case that foreign lorries are exempt? Why not re-register our MHs abroad, then? Flippane, maybe, but is it possible?

 

 

Neil B

Sorry Neil but it isn't the case that foreign registered vehicles are exempt. See HERE

 

Graham