Wee Jock and Doris Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 RonB - 2007-10-28 7:46 PM Babies and young children play on grass pitches don't they? Presumably after some people have just dumped their waste water before vacating the same pitch. Waste water contains rotting matter, grease, and god knows what else. With views on hygiene like this it's easy to see why the country is plaqued by MRSA. It's not on. I'm happy to read this. I was beginning to think that I'd joined a fraternity of selfish and unhygienic people. I must confess to being involved with one of the clubs (on a voluntary basis) and I'm most disturbed by the report from Tracker above, about people using the clubs sites and being to lazy to even use the waste water emptying points that are provided and simply driving off with their tanks spilling mucky water. No wonder caravanners etc. come in for some criticism if this is how some behave. The trouble is of course it's not caravanners but motorhomers doing this but the general public probably see us as all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 All this fuss over waste water is amazing when you consider that no one ever says a word about dogs peeing on the same grass - and everywhere else on a site too? I would rather sit on a grey watered bit of grass than a dog watered bit of grass, but I guess it might be politically incorrect to ask a dog not to pee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Jock and Doris Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Tracker - 2007-10-29 11:43 AM All this fuss over waste water is amazing when you consider that no one ever says a word about dogs peeing on the same grass - and everywhere else on a site too? I would rather sit on a grey watered bit of grass than a dog watered bit of grass, but I guess it might be politically incorrect to ask a dog not to pee? I'm not sure why you think that no one says a word about dogs peeing on the grass. If you allow a dog to pee you cannot be sure that at the same time it will deposit something even more foul. This is why good sites such as the ones I'm associated with, have dog walking areas where dogs can pee. I for one would certainly protest if I witnessed a dog owner allowing his animal to behave in this disgusting manner. I actually think that dogs peeing is a bit of a red herring as I don't believe that it happens much if at all. What concerns me most is all of these people leaving sites with their taps open that you refer to. Are the sites at fault in some way? If our emptying points are somehow too difficult to use or not clearly listed then I'd like to know. Good clubs should make it as easy as possible for motorhomers to empty their tanks and if you can tell me of the sites in question I shall be quite happy to raise the matter at our next council meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 i think that most motorhome service points are unsutable, from what i have seen, draining water is ok as long as there is a long pipe you can attatch to you outlet tap. best would be if you could drive over and dump your waste water, and then wash it away, also i have found that you then have to drive to another part of the site to empty toilet waste. i only have a small van (no outside lockers) so i wouldnt want to carry the pipe inside the van. you could of course argue, that if i drained the waste water into a bucket i could carry it to a drain point, but unfortunatly my disability will not let carry much at all. when you consider the waste draining along the road, think of the gunge that comes out of the refuse lorries everytime they compress their load, (now that stinks) but do you see someone from the council or anyone for that matter, running behind with water and disinfectant,(i didn't think so) as neither have i, i'm not saying it's right, but food for thought. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Well Jock, all you need do is sit in your van on any site, commercial or either club, late into the evening with no lights on and curtains or blinds undrawn and you will very likely see fleeting glimpses of the passing shadows of late night doggie walking both on and off lead. As a dog owner I have a pretty good idea from my dog's body language what she is about to deposit and I can usually stop her dumping solids in an inappropriate place if I'm quick enough. If not I pick it up, but I do accept that sometimes traces are left behind which is why I try not to walk her any where near places that kids play. When my son was small, dog muck on sites was a real issue but waste water never was. I do not feel the need to say this but, in case you wonder, I seem to carry a doggy bag in almost every pocket. Let me further clarify that I have never left a site with my taps open and, as we rarely stay more than a day or two, I have little difficulty in finding a suitable roadside drain for waste water when the site has an often inadequate waste water disposal point. Would you care to elaborate about which council you meet with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 The environmental impact of allowing grey water to drain onto a road surface whilst the vehicle is in motion is miniscule to the point of irrelevance. This is true whether gulley pots drain to combined sewer systems, or straight to water courses. Public perception of motorhomers that do this though is another issue, and is unlikely to actually win favour for our cause. It can be done without fear of environmental damage if you must, but do it on a dark and quiet road! Draining straight onto the pitch at sites is more anti-social than environmentally harmful, but given that the waste tends to be more concentrated, there is more potential for measurable environmental impact. Failing to dispose of grey waste in the appropriate receptacle whilst on site is anti-social and just bone-idle. No doubt the practice will continue though; such is the failing of our miserable species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Jock and Doris Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Tracker - 2007-10-29 2:15 PM Well Jock, all you need do is sit in your van on any site, commercial or either club, late into the evening with no lights on and curtains or blinds undrawn and you will very likely see fleeting glimpses of the passing shadows of late night doggie walking both on and off lead. As a dog owner I have a pretty good idea from my dog's body language what she is about to deposit and I can usually stop her dumping solids in an inappropriate place if I'm quick enough. If not I pick it up, but I do accept that sometimes traces are left behind which is why I try not to walk her any where near places that kids play. When my son was small, dog muck on sites was a real issue but waste water never was. I do not feel the need to say this but, in case you wonder, I seem to carry a doggy bag in almost every pocket. Let me further clarify that I have never left a site with my taps open and, as we rarely stay more than a day or two, I have little difficulty in finding a suitable roadside drain for waste water when the site has an often inadequate waste water disposal point. Would you care to elaborate about which council you meet with? I'm not sure why you're being so defensive. I haven't for one second suggested that you are guilty of anything and have been talking in general terms about those who most reasonable people seem to agree are either very lazy or selfish when disposing of waste or handling their dogs. If you think that I am in some way getting at you personally I apologise and assure you that I am not. I'm more concerned about what you claim is a big problem which is people driving off the clubs sites with their taps open, which I am sure doesn't include you. It does bother me because my club provides easy to use water disposal points and if people aren't using them I'd like to know why. Perhaps you can enlarge on this and if you can tell me the sites in question I shall look at the situation. I'm on the regional council for one of the large clubs. I've not motorhomed for long but have caravanned for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Can I say that I find the current set-up for depositing grey water at club sites very difficult to use. I travel alone and am not a very big person. My drain tap is situated about 12 inches in from the back of the van (next to the exhaust pipe, very thoughtful of the designer) I have to haul off a manhole cover, manoeuvre the van into the precise location over the opening, usually involving me jumping in and out of the van a couple of times. Then reach under the van and open the tap without falling down the hole. Cheltenham Racecourse CC site even give me barriers to manhandle away from the manhole cover first. It ain't easy! However I would never drain the tank anywhere else and accept that it's just part of the joys of motorhoming. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Wee Jock and Doris - 2007-10-29 2:47 PMTracker - 2007-10-29 2:15 PM Well Jock, all you need do is sit in your van on any site, commercial or either club, late into the evening with no lights on and curtains or blinds undrawn and you will very likely see fleeting glimpses of the passing shadows of late night doggie walking both on and off lead. As a dog owner I have a pretty good idea from my dog's body language what she is about to deposit and I can usually stop her dumping solids in an inappropriate place if I'm quick enough. If not I pick it up, but I do accept that sometimes traces are left behind which is why I try not to walk her any where near places that kids play. When my son was small, dog muck on sites was a real issue but waste water never was. I do not feel the need to say this but, in case you wonder, I seem to carry a doggy bag in almost every pocket. Let me further clarify that I have never left a site with my taps open and, as we rarely stay more than a day or two, I have little difficulty in finding a suitable roadside drain for waste water when the site has an often inadequate waste water disposal point. Would you care to elaborate about which council you meet with? I'm not sure why you're being so defensive. I haven't for one second suggested that you are guilty of anything and have been talking in general terms about those who most reasonable people seem to agree are either very lazy or selfish when disposing of waste or handling their dogs. If you think that I am in some way getting at you personally I apologise and assure you that I am not. I'm more concerned about what you claim is a big problem which is people driving off the clubs sites with their taps open, which I am sure doesn't include you. It does bother me because my club provides easy to use water disposal points and if people aren't using them I'd like to know why. Perhaps you can enlarge on this and if you can tell me the sites in question I shall look at the situation. I'm on the regional council for one of the large clubs. I've not motorhomed for long but have caravanned for many years.Did I come across as defensive Jock? Sorry unintended - and no I did not think you were getting at me. However I have become so used to the brainless and angry brigade on here (NOT you!) attacking me personally, rather than my views, without justification that maybe I have become a bit defensive!I salute you on being a club council member and although it may well be with the club that I am not a great fan of I do believe that folks like your good self do an often unsung but very worthwhile job.I personally have never stated that waste water disposal when leaving a site is a problem, and I have no environmental bias one way or the other. It is not a problem for me, but then I don't live near a site entrance.However, I do believe that it conveys the wrong image about Motorhomers in general.This next bit too is not an attack on you personally, but the main problem with the two clubs seems to be that they are very towed caravan orientated with little understanding of the varying needs of motor caravanners as opposed to the simple and generally unvarying needs of a towed caravan. The clue for this may in their names, but some of us motor caravanners are far from impressed with the way we are treated by these clubs - and I do mean the clubs not the individual site wardens and managers who by and large do a difficult job well in my view. I won't bore you with the issues as you are probably aware anyway but suffice to say I only ever use a club site as a last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Jock and Doris Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Tracker, I've been wondering why, in all your replies you have completely skirted around the question of all these people leaving sites with their taps open, which you claim to have witnessed. I have just received a private message from another member who tells me that you never stay on club sites because you object to paying and that you regularly post things, such as these spurious claims that you have just made, with the sole intention of irritating those who like the clubs and in order to stir up a row. I do find it interesting that someone who apparently boasts about never spending money on sites can have seen these acts! Anyway, my mind is now made up. I joined two forums and was very disenchanted with this one, mainly because of the Chatterbox part, where about six people seem to dominate every thread and where people who can't spell too well get the mickey taken out of them. You have convinced me finally that this forum isn't for me. I'm sure that there are also some genuine and nice people on this site but it only takes one or two to wreck it and make it unpleasant for others.Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Wee Jock and Doris - 2007-10-29 3:41 PMTracker, I've been wondering why, in all your replies you have completely skirted around the question of all these people leaving sites with their taps open, which you claim to have witnessed. I have just received a private message from another member who tells me that you never stay on club sites because you object to paying and that you regularly post things, such as these spurious claims that you have just made, with the sole intention of irritating those who like the clubs and in order to stir up a row. I do find it interesting that someone who apparently boasts about never spending money on sites can have seen these acts! Anyway, my mind is now made up. I joined two forums and was very disenchanted with this one, mainly because of the Chatterbox part, where about six people seem to dominate every thread and where people who can't spell too well get the mickey taken out of them. You have convinced me finally that this forum isn't for me. I'm sure that there are also some genuine and nice people on this site but it only takes one or two to wreck it and make it unpleasant for others.Goodbye.Oh dear, Jock isn't it a bit sad that you have to take notice of an anonymous PM from someone lacking the balls to go public but instead intent on causing mischief privately? I had hoped that you were above that and you really should learn to take what you read about me with a pinch of salt. I make no secret of not liking club sites but that does not mean I never use them - or other types of site for that matter - and I do not feel the need to justify my style of camping to you or anyone else.How have I skirted around the tank draining issue - I don't understand what you mean?I am not alone in witnessing tank draining, in fact it was not me who began this thread, and if you honestly believe that it does not happen then you are, my friend, deluding yourself - as indeed you are in the belief that the other abuses mentioned do not occur.I take your point that unpleasantness is not desirable on here and I point out to you that it is you who have suddenly become unpleasant and all I am doing is replying without being rude or starting a personal attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Your contributions will be sorely missed, Wee Jock and Doris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I agree. As a purported 'club council'member Jock had the opportunity to hear the motor caravanner's points of view. However it does seem that as a caravanner himself he is in denial and he is not interested in listening to motor caravanner's points of view? I hope I am wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 It seems to me that the building industry in this country must have wasted billions of pounds putting in waste pipes and drainage to every house, when all we really want to do is to sling our foul water straight out the window. I thought that we had emerged from third world country conditions long ago but, apparently not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 'Bucket and chuckit' has always served me well Ron! Perhaps I keep the wrong company but they are both good mates of mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livewire Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 RonB - 2007-10-29 4:51 PM It seems to me that the building industry in this country must have wasted billions of pounds putting in waste pipes and drainage to every house, when all we really want to do is to sling our foul water straight out the window. I thought that we had emerged from third world country conditions long ago but, apparently not. Letting your grey water tank dribble empty whislt driving is not really comparible to throwing s**t out of your window. A tad too much melodrama. As for giving motorhomes a bad name, a doubt anyone else notices or cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Livewire - the word s**t is yours not mine. Do people do this also, I must lead a sheltered life, but a clean one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 soot suit seat shot shut sent sect B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Couldn't have put it better myself Jackie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 blimey, considering this is about water it,s heated, is it ok to pee on your wheels to cool the brakes down >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Nice one, Alan (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I agree that emptying a grey waste tank onto a grass pitch or hardstanding is not acceptable. However, if it is on a pitch covered in chippings or sand is it going to be that damaging? As for the roads, I usually drop my tank into the site waste facility, close the valve and leave. A little way down the road I just crack it open again to drain off the last bits in the tank that need "shaking out". But to put the argument as a whole into perspective a bit, if you take an average of 90 litres of grey waste and drain that off over the several miles of travel the van would do until it's empty that amount of soapy water on the road is hardly likely to destroy the environment, even if every van in the country did it, which plainly they don't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 To sum up then. The question asked was 'is it acceptable to dump waste water FULL BORE onto a car park and HIGHSTREET?. Later enlarged upon by me to include dumping direct onto aires and site pitches. Unfortunately, it's obvious from the opinions aired that the majority do think it acceptable in one way or another. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Well please don't count me into the majority Ron, I think it's disgusting. End of. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I'm not sure which thread you fellows were reading but if you read this one you'll see that the majority actually denounce dropping the entire contents willy-nilly in the public domain.And for what it's worth, to reiterate, allowing the steady draining over the course of miles of public road will not have any environmental impact worthy of consideration.Ironically, dropping the entire contents into a storm drain that is not part of a combined sewer system, but which drains straight to water courses will be far more deleterious than allowing a steady draining over the course of miles. Especially if there is something in the tank with a high biological oxygen demand, like milk for example. If people want to do the right thing environmentally, drain in the site provided receptacle. If you don’t use sites, drain it steadily over a few miles. Socially it’s a different ball-game. Do the above, but if you do the latter, do it where there is no likelihood of bringing the name of motorhomers into disrepute. In this way, the only consequence is likely to be an objection for no well-founded reason by a handful of drama-queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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