benandbarbara Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Hi We have a one year old Ace Modena on a Fiat 2.3 Ducatto, and we are thinking of adding an A frame and towing a car, We have read the article in July 07 MMM, but would really like to know what it's like to tow a car. How easy is it? and are you really pleased that you shelled out the money for the two bar etc.?! :-S Any comments would be welcome. Thanks very much B&B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 I've towed a Clio on a Cara-tow A frame for six years without any problem. The most noticeable feature is slower acceleration and braking, both to be expected. Fuel consumption is about 3 mpg worse than running light. Seems to be becoming more popular, lots of 'em about these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peedee Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Stuart - 2007-10-24 7:14 PM Seems to be becoming more popular, lots of 'em about these days. Sure is. I have also been towing for just over six years with a Mercedes 316 CDI and whilst I agree you do notice slightly less acceleration and increased stopping distances, I have not noticed any difference in fuel consumption. The problem is your inclined to forget it is there because there is so little difference. I am fortunate in that I can see it in my rear view mirror and Fresnel lens which I have fitted to the rear window so I do get reminded about it. You don't say what you intend to tow, just make sure you use a braked A-Frame and that the chosen vehicle is within your gross train weight and I think you will find it is easy and there is nothing to it. peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 We tow and find it no problem (other than the fact that it isn't legal but we won't go into that!)If you want to use your MH for touring then the car can be a damn nuisance. We don't take it abroad as the ferry is expensive. Only use it in the UK as it is difficult park anywhere here. Would probably advise you to either use public transport or hire a car. It is cheaper and probably not worth the initial outlay unless you need a second car at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peedee Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Miami - 2007-10-24 9:47 PMWe tow and find it no problem (other than the fact that it isn't legal but we won't go into that!) I would prefer you said its a grey area, its never been proved illegal!!!Otherwise I agree with the rest of your statement and it is worth noting parking a motorhome on the continent is so much easier..peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Well, Peedee, the rest of Europe regards it as illegal and they have exactly the same law as we do, derived from the same EU Directives. And on Sunday, I heard one of the 'reputable' dealers at the NEC try and sell a £375 A-frame to a punter who, fortunately, wasn't sure. The A-frame was unbraked and the dealer well knew that that is illegal, as has been proved by actual court cases. My guess is that it's only a metter of time . . . . As for the practicalities, most of the time we found it no problem. But when the car's brakes failed to release properly after a spot of braking on tow, it all got very dangerous. By the time we stopped at the next Aire, the front wheels were smoking! Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 What I find slightly concerning is that a couple of people report extended braking distances while towing. Surely if the towed car's brakes are working properly there should be no difference in braking distance? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benandbarbara Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks everybody for your comments all very helpful, still not decided, but will keep on talking about it and looking!! Especially after the letter in this months MMM page 222! B&B :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peedee Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Mel E - 2007-10-25 9:29 AM Well, Peedee, the rest of Europe regards it as illegal and they have exactly the same law as we do, derived from the same EU Directives. As for the practicalities, most of the time we found it no problem. But when the car's brakes failed to release properly after a spot of braking on tow, it all got very dangerous. By the time we stopped at the next Aire, the front wheels were smoking! Mel E ==== I am not going to enter into a debate about legality whether in this country or on the continent. There has been enough on that already (lol) Your braking problem sound as though your frame wasn't maintained properly and you had not taken any steps to insure the car brake pedal didn't stick which again could have been down to poor maintenance. If I am wrong what was the cause? peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Miami said ferries are expensive with an a-frame last year was £85.90 return dover calais with off peak crossing This coming trip is £130 return going out on Dec 28 at 4.30pm and returning April 11 at 10.30.am Its not that expensive Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wynmax Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hi B&B..go and get one...we have been towing now for over 12 years and would never go back to driving the van from place to place. You don't even know the car's there when your towing..it is a doddle and only takes a few minutes to hitch & unhitch. we got ours from Car-a-Tow they are now based in Poole , Dorset . ..very good people to deal with. Now when you want a pint of milk or a morning paper you don't have to put everything ship shape in the van ..just get into the car. Also, you have much more scope for visiting out of the way places and can sit on one site for a few weeks while you tour a 30/40 mile radius getting into every nook & cranny. Yes B&B towing a car for us has made a big difference & no problems with parking. Good luck let us know what you decide if poss. from Wyn & Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 wynmax - 2007-10-25 5:02 PM Hi B&B..go and get one...we have been towing now for over 12 years and would never go back to driving the van from place to place. You don't even know the car's there when your towing..it is a doddle and only takes a few minutes to hitch & unhitch. we got ours from Car-a-Tow they are now based in Poole , Dorset . ..very good people to deal with. Now when you want a pint of milk or a morning paper you don't have to put everything ship shape in the van ..just get into the car. Also, you have much more scope for visiting out of the way places and can sit on one site for a few weeks while you tour a 30/40 mile radius getting into every nook & cranny. Yes B&B towing a car for us has made a big difference & no problems with parking. Good luck let us know what you decide if poss. from Wyn & Max That would be a caravan then!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 benandbarbara - 2007-10-25 12:35 PM Thanks everybody for your comments all very helpful, still not decided, but will keep on talking about it and looking!! Especially after the letter in this months MMM page 222! B&B :-) Hi benand barbara We tow a toyota yaris sometimes but only in the UK and only when we know there is no 'good' public transport available where we are going. Towing the car has proved to be much easier than putting it on a trailer and, as has been said previously, you just don't know it is there. To make sure, we use the rear view camera to keep an eye on it. My only other comment, if you do go ahead, would be to make sure you buy one of the 'reputable' makes that has a braking system, handbrake, breakaway cable and skid (or jockey wheel) and not one of the cheaper variety. Ours is also the Car A Tow version and has been brilliant in use, Good luck, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Hi, Just for information could those of you that use an "A" frame let us know who you insure with, for the car and the motorhome and do you declare that you will be towing with an "A" frame Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 enodreven - 2007-10-25 8:17 PM Hi, Just for information could those of you that use an "A" frame let us know who you insure with, for the car and the motorhome and do you declare that you will be towing with an "A" frame Thanks Safeguard for the MH and Privilege for the car but you will have trouble with the car insurance. I did. Yes I told them that we were towing. No problem with the MH but I found very few car insurers who were prepared to insure once they knew it was being towed.Privilege said it was O.K. as it was insured fully comp but I am not completely convinced. There is no mention of it on the policy but they do have a record on their computer. Biggest problem I had was with the NCB. If you already own the MH and the other half has a car then you will probably have to pay the full insurance and build up your no claims again which may make the project far too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Mel E - 2007-10-25 9:29 AM Well, Peedee, the rest of Europe regards it as illegal and they have exactly the same law as we do, derived from the same EU Directives., as has been proved by actual court cases. Mel E ==== Sorry to labour the point Mel but what court cases, where and when or is that just another manufactured statement of fact!What we all need is actual proof of a court case in the U.K. If you know of one please inform us all and I am sure many of us will re-consider the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Le Thou Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 My take on this is simple: There has been heated debate on this subject if you search the threads relating to A frames, but we have a Smart car and have just bought an Auto trail Miami and intend to tow the smart car on an unbraked a frame , illegal? possibly but do I care ? NOT A JOT! And why?....the majority of MH'mers out ther don't know what their GV laden weight should be, how much weight have I got on the back axle, the scooter rack on an Alko extension? Sure it'll be fine, am I over my payload, or what is my payload? does it include a full freshwater tank, what payload have I got to play with and what is the plated weight of my vehicle? the list is endless, my take? Make it safe , drive within your capabilities and within the MH's capabilities allow for longer stopping distances and just enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Le Thou - 2007-10-25 10:38 PM My take on this is simple: There has been heated debate on this subject if you search the threads relating to A frames, but we have a Smart car and have just bought an Auto trail Miami and intend to tow the smart car on an unbraked a frame , illegal? possibly but do I care ? NOT A JOT! And why?....the majority of MH'mers out ther don't know what their GV laden weight should be, how much weight have I got on the back axle, the scooter rack on an Alko extension? Sure it'll be fine, am I over my payload, or what is my payload? does it include a full freshwater tank, what payload have I got to play with and what is the plated weight of my vehicle? the list is endless, my take? Make it safe , drive within your capabilities and within the MH's capabilities allow for longer stopping distances and just enjoy Have sent you a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I am not going to enter into a debate about legality whether in this country or on the continent. There has been enough on that already (lol) Your braking problem sound as though your frame wasn't maintained properly and you had not taken any steps to insure the car brake pedal didn't stick which again could have been down to poor maintenance. If I am wrong what was the cause? peedee peedee, It was a brand new system with one of the brake cable mounting brackets badly fitted - but not visibly so. This caused a kink in the brake cable which prevented it from releasing properly after braking - but only intermittently so. As a makeshift, I applied three very strong bungees between the car brake pedal and the seat frame which solved the problem most of the time - but not all. Fortunately I had had the foresight to have tyre pressure and temperature sensors fitted to the car, with readouts transmitted to a display on the m'home dash, so an alarm went off when temps went high. Since you seem to want to accuse me of being at fault, I'll further tell you that I returned the car to the supplier in Poole - a not inconsiderable journey. They concluded, after a brief inspection, that nothing was wrong and it was the way I was fitting the system! As it then continued, I spoke to the boss man, went to Poole again and he diagnosed the fault in less time than it had taken his assistants to tell me I was at fault. It worked fine after that until, after a further couple of years, we started to suffer brake binding on the car and, eventually, wheel bearing failure - I presume due to the overheating. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Miami, If you search the archives of this forum you will find that people have been taken to court and fined for towing on unbraked A-frames. There is no get-out here: unbraked A-frames are covered by explicit law which states that they may ONLY be used for recovery of broken down vehicles and are subject to speed limits of 40mph on motorways and 20mph elsewhere. I do not know of any cases involving braked A-frames. But why would I? I do not track court cases for a living! Anyone so charged would plead guilty 99 times out of 100 ('cos it's simpler and a lot cheaper!), accept the fine and there would be no publicity - the vast majority (99.99%) of the media reading public are totally uninterested in this debate. Anyway, I'm still puzzled by why people want there to be a court case - and think it's OK as long as there isn't one. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Oh, and Miami, Please do NOT edit quotes from my postings so that the sense of what they say is completely changed, as you have above. I did NOT say that all a-frame towing had been proved illegal by court cases - only towing using unbraked A-frames. It really is pretty childish to edit a posting as you have done just so it supports your view. Here is what I actually posted: Well, Peedee, the rest of Europe regards it as illegal and they have exactly the same law as we do, derived from the same EU Directives. And on Sunday, I heard one of the 'reputable' dealers at the NEC try and sell a £375 A-frame to a punter who, fortunately, wasn't sure. The A-frame was unbraked and the dealer well knew that that is illegal, as has been proved by actual court cases. [/Quote] Here is your doctored quote, which you will see is completely different: Well, Peedee, the rest of Europe regards it as illegal and they have exactly the same law as we do, derived from the same EU Directives., as has been proved by actual court cases. [/Quote] Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peedee Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Mel E - 2007-10-26 11:13 AM peedee, It was a brand new system with one of the brake cable mounting brackets badly fitted - but not visibly so. This caused a kink in the brake cable which prevented it from releasing properly after braking - but only intermittently so. As a makeshift, I applied three very strong bungees between the car brake pedal and the seat frame which solved the problem most of the time - but not all. Mel E ==== Thanks for the explanation, at least having had mine six years, I know that is unlikely to happen to me. peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Mel E - 2007-10-26 11:35 AM Oh, and Miami, Please do NOT edit quotes from my postings so that the sense of what they say is completely changed, as you have above. I did NOT say that all a-frame towing had been proved illegal by court cases - only towing using unbraked A-frames. It really is pretty childish to edit a posting as you have done just so it supports your view. Here is what I actually posted: Well, Peedee, the rest of Europe regards it as illegal and they have exactly the same law as we do, derived from the same EU Directives. And on Sunday, I heard one of the 'reputable' dealers at the NEC try and sell a £375 A-frame to a punter who, fortunately, wasn't sure. The A-frame was unbraked and the dealer well knew that that is illegal, as has been proved by actual court cases. [/Quote] Here is your doctored quote, which you will see is completely different: Well, Peedee, the rest of Europe regards it as illegal and they have exactly the same law as we do, derived from the same EU Directives., as has been proved by actual court cases. [/Quote] Mel E ==== Sorry Pedee, it was my error when I edited it but I still haven't heard from anyone who has been to court or fined yet.Point made about the unbraked frames as I wouldn't want to tow without brakes legal or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peedee Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Wasn't me complaining but Mel E peedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 peedee - 2007-10-26 5:53 PM Wasn't me complaining but Mel E peedee Must pay more attention !!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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