Choice of motorhomes.

[Balliol]

After a horrendous accident that totally wrecked our Discovery and twin axle caravan but from which thankfully we walked away almost unscathed, and despite 35 years of heavy towing experience, we have decided to go for a motorhome next.

 

We have looked around and find that the coachbuilt Rapido 7097 low profile meets our needs exactly except that it hasn't got an overcab bed, and the Rapido A Class 9097F meets our need precisely except that I don't particularly like the A-class looks and I prefer the chassis cab style. Unfortunately, we can afford neither model new and suspect that we will need to settle for a 3-5 year old vehicle. The problem seems to be that there are a multitude of designs and model numbers, many now superceded, and on used vehicles it seems difficult to establish what the layout is without exploring endless forecourts, or phoning every potential private seller. Buyers guides are of some help but we are quite fussy about the layout we want, and layouts are not found in the used vehicle guides that we have seen. I was hoping therefore that if I provide our wish list below then with your help I might be able to build up a list of potential models to search for. You may have just the thing and be able to tell me the model, or may even want to sell it!

 

1. Fixed double bed.

2. Overcab bed.

3. Four berths.

4. Four forward facing seats (total) with seat belts.

5. Settee big enough for the wife to slump on and social seating for 5/6 people.

6. Ideally, fridge and freezer.

7. Air con to cab.

8. Ideally, separate loo and shower.

 

This may be a tall order but if anybody can help with my list I would be most grateful.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

[crinklystarfish]

3-5 Year old Bürstner A747-2 or A748-2 seem to fit the bill. They're top notch; but big at 8m.

3-5 Year old Autotrail (I think it was the Cheyenne range) 696G would also seem to fit and is a much more manageable size.

Both appear in the current classified section on this site.

I'm sure there are many more that will suit your needs, and you are quite right to spend the time to search for just what you want. Anything less will probably end badly.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Glad to here you escaped unscathed, welcome to the wonderful world of motorhoming :-D

 

EuraMobil Profila 660 HB

 

I've got one and it ticks nearly all off your boxes plus is only 6.6 metres long.

 

why settle for secondhand when if you go LHD you can get a new one on latest chassis for more or less the same money.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

May I offer three comments?

First, in selecting your motorhome do bear in mind that the main difference between a motorhome and a caravan is that folk generally find the former best suited to stopping for a few days and then moving on, doing their touring (and shopping) around as they go, whereas the caravan seems better suited to being taken to a location and parked for a week or more at a time, while the occupants tour around etc in the towcar, as you have presumably done hitherto.  Of course, these different patterns of use are not mandatory, and are not imposed by the vehicles, but they do generally seem to reflect what people find gets best use from each.  My point is that the greater mobility facilitated by the motorhome has a bearing on the layout that works best.  Your wish list would generally result in a largish van, which you may find restricts the ease with which you can access places of interest.  Parking 7.5 - 8 metres of motorhome for a couple of hours while you visit somewhere isn't always that easy, so some compromise on the contents to get a more compact van may be worth considering.

Second, would be to concentrate your search among those makes with the best reputations for reliability and build quality.  Interesting case in this month's MMM of a Hymer that seems almost to have been rebuilt after previous owners had abused it, leaving its new owner with a heap of trouble to be sorted out under warranty.  With some other makes he'd probably still be waiting, and with others again he'd have no chance unless he paid for the repairs himself.  In the final analysis, the fundamentals are more important to enjoyment than layouts.  I'd far sooner compromise on layout and buy a well reputed make, than get my ideal layout from a less well reputed maker.  These reputations are generally well earned and deserved, and it pays to take them into account.

Final, is that just the same goes for dealerships.  Buy a reputable make from a reputable dealership.  You can get a lemon from any maker but, if you do suffer that misfortune, it'll primarily be the dealer who can pull it around for you.

Good luck with your search.

[franki]

Hi

 

It sounds you know abit about motorhomes, I wonder if you could help us. We are in the process of buying a auto cruise star dream which we we reserved at the NEC show. The problem is it has a 100bhp engine and since ordering we have noticed all the second hand star dreams we see have 120bhp fitted. The salesman assured that the smaller engine is good enough but we intend to drive in mountain ranges in Europe and feel 100bhp may not be enough. iF we change our order the deal is no where near as good as the one we did at the show. No one seems to be able to help, we have been unable to test drive a 100bhp. Have you any ideas where we could get some advice.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Franki

I think you should say boo to your goose!  If the dealer wants a sale, he should get you the 120Hp at no more than the extra cost of that engine option over and above the 100HP version.  Ultimately, it will be far cheaper to walk away, than to buy it because the deal was good, and then find you've got the wrong van.  Personally, I think you are right to have reservarions, but have no direct experience of the van or the engine.  Find out what others are charging as extra for the 120HP compared to the 100HP, and then tell the dealer you want to upgrade to the 120, but only expect to pay the direct extra costs.

If they won't play, just cancel the deal and buy elsewhere.  Deals done at shows have a bit of a poor track record and it is not always the case that the goods turn out as expected.  Do you have a written confirmation copy of exactly what you ordered?  If you do, check it carefully to make sure everything you expected to be included in the spec is listed.  If it ain't there in writing, it probably won't be on the van, whatever they told you at the show!  Good luck.

[V6Jim]

franki - 2007-10-28 3:01 PM

 

Hi

 

It sounds you know abit about motorhomes, I wonder if you could help us. We are in the process of buying a auto cruise star dream which we we reserved at the NEC show. The problem is it has a 100bhp engine and since ordering we have noticed all the second hand star dreams we see have 120bhp fitted. The salesman assured that the smaller engine is good enough but we intend to drive in mountain ranges in Europe and feel 100bhp may not be enough. iF we change our order the deal is no where near as good as the one we did at the show. No one seems to be able to help, we have been unable to test drive a 100bhp. Have you any ideas where we could get some advice.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

I'll respond to this, and the origional post. We had a 100bhp Bessacarr which proved to be absolutely OK in every way. The only time we really noticed the lack of horses was on the motorway. Gradients and headwinds effect cruising speed quite dramatically, but never to the point of inconvenience or embarrassment!

 

On the origional question, I have just read a review of the new Swift Voyager 695EL in one of the magazines and it would be absolutely perfect for you! Not too big, fixed rear bed on the 685FB version, forward facing seats and a nice big overcab bed. Also available as the Ace Adventurer 685FB and the Bessacarr E665.

 

Downsides to this are that these are new (from £39,830) and the rear bed tends to compromise lounge space, restricting you to sitting round the dinner table at the front of an evening.

 

www.swiftvoyager.co.uk

 

Hope this helps.

 

Jimmy

[crinklystarfish]

Swift group often raises the bugbear of quality control issues. Of course, not everything that leaves their factory is affected, but they do seem to suffer disproportionately. I'd personally advise anyone heading in this direction to do a search on this forum re Swift and quality control.

[RonB]

Franki

 

I might well be wronge but I think the Stardream model that you are speaking about came with about £4,000 of extras thrown in. I believe that this was done to help overcome the sales resistance caused by the small size of engine fitted, the same deals were not available on larger engines.

 

In my opinion the vehicle is fine but I would certainly try to upgrade the engine size. However, I think that you would have to forfeit the extras and probably be asked to pay more for the upgrade. You can only ask and then act accordingly.

[Guest Le Thou]

" I'd far sooner compromise on layout and buy a well reputed make, than get my ideal layout from a less well reputed maker. " As quoted by Brian.

 

I sincerely hope that in your search for a motorhome you totally disregard this idiotic comment, wouldn't it be nice sitting in you £30,000 motorhome thinking" It doesn't quite work for us, the dinette doesn,t suit us and the kitchens small but at least it's a good quality make" Utter nonsense!

 

My advise to you is go and hire a motorhome for a week then go hire a different motorhome for another week, it may cost you upwards of £1500 - £2000 but yo won't be joining the queue of many many people who buy a motorhome and find that it's not quite right, take it back to the dealers and instantly lose £5000.

 

Ask yourself this question, "why are there so many used motorhomes for sale that have a very very low mileage?" I speak from experience, I did it, only once, so sod the makers badge and buy what layout suits.

[RonB]

Would it be possible, just for once, to have a different point of view to someone else on this forum without decending into personal insults? Brian an idiot? I don't think so.

[RonB]

Burstner A747-2 / A748-2. We found that the front-end payload on ours was an issue, despite the supposed overall payload figure, and we are only a couple. Also the toilet is for dwarfs, we thought we could compromise on this but found that we couldn't. The build quality was good though.

[Brian Kirby]

Well Anthony, I guess it all depends on your point of view.  However, what I suggested is compromising, not buying what you know is unsuitable.  That really would be idiotic.  Prioritising durability, good service and reliable support count for a lot if the van you get proves problemmatic.  The ideal layout gives little pleasure if it spends most of its time at the dealer's awaiting repairs.  Hiring is good advice, but it only provides absoulte proof if you can hire the exact model you intend buying, which is not all that easy.  With so much choice available, there shouldn't be too much trouble finding a suitable layout from a good maker, and even finding a reliable dealer to supply it.  Best of all worlds then, good van, good dealer and good layout.  That is my point.

[Balliol]

Thanks for that. Apologies for the delay in replying but I have been working away in Belgium and France. Visited Rapido dealers in Poperinge and the prices for LHD didn't seem that much cheaper but I see your point and appreciate your advice, and perhaps LHD in England will be cheaper. I have no problem with LHD since I would only overtake on motorways and dual carriageways, and 1800 miles in a week on the continent is normal for me in a RHD car. Thanks.

[Balliol]

Thanks, appreciate your advice and will add to list.

[Balliol]

Thanks Brian,

 

I've typed one response but am not sure I posted it correctly as a new boy to the forum so it may not have made it. Basically, thanks for your thoughts and advice, but another question arises from your helpful analysis. We have thought about towing a small car on a trailer, and have discounted the idea of an A frame. We also visit the same area very often and could keep an old car there if we wanted for local mobility since we have a property there as well. but the other thought is that given that our shopping trolley car (Toyota Yaris) does nearly 65 mpg, and also that my wife and I are never ever ready to leave at the same times, is there any real advantage in putting the car on a trailer behind the motor van, or should she just drive down in the little car in her own time? Given that both our cars do in excess off 30,000 miles a year the overall mileage aspect is of little concern, just the overall fuel consumption / emissions. Thanks in anticipation for your thoughts.

[Robinhood]

There's been an amount of decent advice already put forward.

 

Be aware that if all other options fail and you decide to take the vehicle that you have ordered, if it ultimately proves less than usable, there are already aftermarket tuning options available to upgrade the output of this engine to 120bhp plus.

 

Might invalidate your warranty for engine faults, but ultimately might be a cheap resolution if you go ahead and then find you need the extra oomph.

[Charlieme]

The Rapido 987M fits all your requirements but is £50,000 plus new, but they do not come around second hand very often. This one is not air con but thats OK. We stay on sites and use buses and taxis for visiting, no problem parking!

 

What its appearance is to others on the outside is not my concern, we live on the inside. Two of us can easily live in it for two weeks carrying all food.

 

Four people would be crowded to "live in"

 

On a short term evening we've had fifteen 15 adults sitting in for food, no problem.

 

NOTE

 

Brian is one of the best to answer your questions, he gives good sound advise which is what is asked for.

 

Bill

[Brian Kirby]

Balliol - 2007-11-05 9:04 PM Thanks Brian, I've typed one response but am not sure I posted it correctly as a new boy to the forum so it may not have made it. Basically, thanks for your thoughts and advice, but another question arises from your helpful analysis. We have thought about towing a small car on a trailer, and have discounted the idea of an A frame. We also visit the same area very often and could keep an old car there if we wanted for local mobility since we have a property there as well. but the other thought is that given that our shopping trolley car (Toyota Yaris) does nearly 65 mpg, and also that my wife and I are never ever ready to leave at the same times, is there any real advantage in putting the car on a trailer behind the motor van, or should she just drive down in the little car in her own time? Given that both our cars do in excess off 30,000 miles a year the overall mileage aspect is of little concern, just the overall fuel consumption / emissions. Thanks in anticipation for your thoughts.

Balliol

I think your circumstances present just too many possibilities, given the availability of cars and property (and boats!) and possible starting locations, to even begin to venture an opinion. 

If it were me, I think I'd probably forget the motorhome, flog both houses, and buy a really large, well converted and comfortable barge and live on that, with the car parked on the roof, and just amiably wander Europe's waterways!

[Balliol]

Thanks Brian,

 

I've already typed a reply but again am unsure whether it has uploaded.

 

We have had the 1925 Dutch barge for 23 years, amiably cruised most of Holland, Belgium and France with the car on deck and a hydraulic crane to offload it for dinner out. We now want to move on and explore locations further afield where a speed in excess of 8 knots would be useful. As with the caravan we desire something where paint brushes don't need to be carried as an alternative entertainment to travelling.

 

Many thanks for your help and advice, and to all those others who have contributed to our search list.

 

Balliol.

 

 

[tonyishuk]

 

We been down the Discovery / twin axle route, but luckily did not end it in your unfortunate way !

 

I would imagine that if you worked your way up to a twin axle you know what you like and do not in internal layout.

 

Its the silly things that make living in a motor home / caravan annoying such as :

 

The loo space is too small at knee height or shoulder height.

We had a fixed bed in the caravan, our BIG mistake was to go to lounge and a "put you up" double bed.

No cooker.

Etc, Etc

 

Take your time, and do not rush into a purchase and use the same wisdom as buying a caravan,

 

On last word of advice, the bigger the M/home the more you think about having taking bicycles, Motor scooter(s) / or towing cars behind you for trips out. (Others will correct me on this no doubt)

 

Rgds

 

 

[dragonflyer]

I would like to add one or two comments.

 

We now have our second motorhome. The first we had for 6 years and we parted company when it was 19 years old.

 

It was love at first sight. BUT ... BUT we had been looking for six years. We had been onto every possible dealers forecourt when on holiday or just making it a day out.

 

Watch out - double bed - just measure it and you will be surprised how small they can be, both length and width.

 

Try really try to imagine sleeping in a bed with the corner missing. Some of the missing portions are quite large. Which side of the bed do you sleep on? Do you sleep on your front?

 

In the washroom sit on the throne (lid up) and find out how easy it is to regain your footing or do you have to keep the door open? How easy is it to have a wash - rehearse, it may save you making a mistake.

 

For our second motorhome we have had to make a number of significant compromises in order to have the automatic vehicle that is essential for a deaf person. They do grate but they were recognised at the selection stage and not discovered after purchase.

 

The answer always is personal attention to detail - research, research.

[panagah]

Poster.

I think you have done very well with some of the useful replies you have had to your original question. I would just like to add some comments. Firstly Brian does give good advice regarding the quality of make you buy, but I don't think you should saccrifice your dream layout for that bit extra quality. I too read the article regarding the hymer in MMM (only 8 days until my own is published in living with, look out for it im excited ) (lol). That would to me throw doubt on the quality v monetary value of such a purchase. You need what you need, but you have to get that within your budjet. Most motorhomes are a decent enough quality nowadays to withstand the normal use that they get. Yes I would much rather have an autotrail than my CI but for the same money as a 8-10 year old one I managed to get mine with everything I wanted at only 2 years old. So far so good and Ive put more miles on than the average MH user. The money I saved managed to get me the few mods I needed when I realised that certain things were needed. The reason why I mention this is that someone quotes the 100 bhp V the 120bhp engined MH that they have ordered. Trust me if you feel you need the 120bhp you will not be happy with the 10-bhp model there is a massive difference, I ended up having to remap mine to make motorhoming more enjoyable.

 

The second point I would raise may be somewhat controversial. I know people do tow cars behind MHs and obviously have there reasons for doing so. However if this is your plan I would ask why you feel the need to MH at all and why not invest in another van and good tow car. For me and many like me MHs are that far removed from caravans it's unreal. Many think that they are the same pursuits but to me my feeling is quite opposite. As Brian wisely suggests to you, In a MH you spend far more time touring, visiting places on the way and only making brief plans. You may stop at some shops for some goodies before you settle somewhere for a couple of nights. I know people will get what they want from MHs but for me the thought of towing a car and stopping somewhere for a week or more jsut seems senseless. If you were talking about spending several months away I can see why some one may take a car but not for me as work gets in the way.

 

You have also been advised to get it right when you buy. That is really difficult even if you spen money on hiring. There will always be something that you wished you would of had or another MH that looks slightly better but you find yourself getting in to a love affair. As others have said the showrooms and such are so full of peoples MHS with next to no milage because the fixed bed didn't fit or the lifestyle was not quite what was expected. These MHs end up costing a fortune when the dealer gives ridiculous prices compared to what you paid to buy new. I would therefore question why a new one would be needed to start with. A late model used one might tick more boxes for you and if all goes pear shaped you can always sell it privately for little less than you paid. Or if you really take to it then prepare yourself for that new one you would like.

 

One final bit of advice that I don't agree with is hiring one. Fine to see if you like it, but not to measure what you want. It takes several trips to find that out and at £500-1k per week that s a few k wasted IMO that could of gone on that MH of your dream.

Good luck with whatever you decide and I hope you enjoy it.

[catinou]

We, briefly, owned a new motorhome last year and visited France as far as the Swiss border. We took our bikes but found we couldn't "explore" the many smaller villages and interesting places we wanted to as parking / driving was a problem for the more out of the way places - too far to ride the bikes too....

 

This year we took delivery of our new Autotrail Dakota and towed a Smart car, on trailer, to Lake Garda in Italy - what a difference! We were able to cycle when we wanted to and used our base on the southern shore of the Lake to drive to Verona, the Dolomites, National parks and mountains and were able to discover places such as the Stone Age carvings, which we would never have found if we had been driving even a smaller motorhome.

 

On our journey to and from Italy we were able to stop on site overnight, easily drive the car off the trailer and have a good look round instead of being restricted to the immediate area.

 

The trailer went free of charge on P & O ferrires as we had booked just before Christmas and the freedom we had was everything we had waited, a very long time, for. Fuel consumption was no more that the MH we had last year and we really were carefree. B-)

 

We have to agree about the layout though - we thought we had chosen the perfect layout last year - a very large bathroom and no fixed bed - this year we have the fixed bed and a v. small bathroom - it took us 2 weeks making and unmaking a lounge bed, to decide that "a fixed bed is not a waste of space" as we first thought (not why we changed models though *-) )