Moving to France - Information sources?

[snobbyafghan]

CliveH - 2007-11-01 8:18 AM

 

 

 

From what I understand the French are preparing to "remove" the retired non-French from their health care system.

 

 

 

As regards the IHT situation, yes it is different but as someone else said, there are ways around this.

 

 

Clive - Are you saying that someone who has lived in France and been part of their Health system may find themselves without cover? And how about someone who has moved to France and worked (and paid taxes there) for a couple of years and then retired?

 

Oh - and what's IHT? I'm a bit sluggish this morning and I can't work it out..!

 

Doug

 

[snobbyafghan]

 

Hmmmmmmmmm!

 

So isn't it easier just to downsize a bit in the UK and use the money gained to buy a fantastic MH or Caravan and use that?

 

 

I'm still digesting the first part of your very interesting post but as regards this last bit. The fantastic MH is a depreciating asset but most of all, I deliberately bought a 2 berth SWB because I don't want to become truck-driver :-D so I think I'll rule that one out.

 

Having read some very useful stuff here and via pm's people have been kind enough to send, my thoughts this morning are inclining towards buying a small place (probably a flat) in the UK. Remaining in the UK tax and health system (I'm still working). Renting in France to look round and test the water and then, within the 2 years when health cover is available as a visitor, decide whether to go the whole and buy there, pay taxes there etc.

 

I don't know if this is feasible. I read somewhere else that you can't choose which tax regime you want to pay under, for example, but I'm guessing that if we own property in the UK and only rent in France, it would be acceptable to be part of the UK system. Any info on that would be appreciated.

 

Doug

[CliveH]

 

Hi Doug

 

IHT is Inheritance Tax

 

We in the UK moved away from the feudal system and now allowed estates to be gifted on death to one individual - in the past this was usually the first born son.

 

In France your estate is usually split equally between your children. Hence the problem with French agriculture where farms have been split and split and split on each death so they are now a nation of smallholders.

 

It was never a real problem until relatively recently because France has about the same sized population but 5 times the land mass.

 

However it was getting difficult and recent changes allow the estate to remain "As is" but you do need to actively set this up.

 

Do nothing and on your death it could be that all your children have to agree what to do or everything is left in limbo. So best to get good advice.

 

 

 

As regards health care this is something that has come in literally the last month or two.

 

Clients of mine who moved to France less than a year ago have had a letter from the French authorities demanding they return their French Social Security card that they have to present to get French health care.

 

Without it they have to pay.

 

So different to the NHS where you can arrive from anywhere have your heart attack and get treated for free and then fly home with no invoice!

 

The French acted because so many Brits and other Europeans where retiring to France. They fear that their own health service will be overwhelmed.

 

From what I understand if you have paid tax in France and have lived there for some time then you should be OK.

 

But I will try to find out a bit more.

 

[CliveH]

This from the Sky News service:-

 

Britons Lose Free French Healthcare

British ex-pats living in France could be forced back to the UK after President Nicolas Sarkozy stripped them of free health care.

The law change means anyone under British retirement age and not working will lose their right to French state health care after two years in the country.

Experts say expats will be forced to pay more than £2,000 a year for private health insurance, or sell up and move back to the UK to receive treatment on the NHS.

David Johnson, who runs an Anglo-French association in the Limousin region, said it would be "panic stations for many people".

"Lots have come to live here because they have health problems and the French healthcare system is so good," he said.

"Many people have come to this region here thinking they would get work and haven't been able to and this will affect those people most of all."

But Nick Chubb, a healthcare and insurance advisor in France, warned people not to panic.

Retirees to pay for healthcare

"There will be large sections of the ex-pat community unaffected by this. If it is true it will hit some people not of UK retirement age and who are not working, but it is early days.

"The French are trying to protect their healthcare system, which is very generous and is probably the best in the world."

During his election campaign earlier this year, Mr Sarkozy said: "If you think 53 makes you old enough to retire, then fine, go ahead and retire. But don't expect the state to pay for it."

France is not alone in changing the rules on healthcare. Spain has also removed the automatic right, creating potential problems for thousands of Britons living there.

[yesmad]

 

So different to the NHS where you can arrive from anywhere have your heart attack and get treated for free and then fly home with no invoice!

 

I think you are wrong here, if a non EC national without the European Insurance Card, the I am sure that you do get invoiced by the NHS. If you go private in the UK and you use NHS for anything, you will be invoiced.

[terry1956]

A W - 2007-11-01 7:50 AM

 

Some of the info rearing its head on this thread is not entirely accurate but sticking to the motorhome theme it is most certainly not possible to import and register a motorhome with the habitation door on the "wrong" side.

That's as far as Brittany is concerned and should anyone want the name and phone no. of the D.R.I.R.E. inspector I'll gladly pass it on.

There is a thead running this very day on another site from someone who has this problem

Sorry you are wrong, we did our MK6 ford transit based camper, Yes there was talk re side sliding door, and the answer was to remove the seat belts and anchor points from the rear seats, If you want prove positive I can post some pics of said van next week when I am back in the UK and yes its a RHD ford, 2001 MK6. So it is possable, even if the habitation door is on the wrong side. michael

[terry1956]

Hi all, well yes its a can of worms here in france at the moment, Most EU countries have closed the door on free heath care, My French neighbour as just had to pay £550 pounds for a CD scan, so even the french are paying for some services here. As to the brits here, its a state of flux at the moment with the UK trying to cut all ties with expats who have pulled out of the NHS system, This is more the case of older people with heath needs trying to get back on a GP,s list in some areas of the UK.

The taxes are a real pain, but there are a few ways around them as stated, a brit who returned back to the UK from my village had to pay over £8000 pounds on CGT. A lot of brits have been using black workers (ie not on the books) and this work can,t be off set for tax reasons.

There are some great things about France, Its like the UK was 30 years ago, but the doors are starting to close on non french, and after looking at the state of the UK with tells of 98 languages in one school, who can blame the french for protecting their services and way of life. Michael

[A W]

Terry1956

If you beat French red tape you deserve an emormous pat on the back.

Alas whoever issued your certificate broke the law.

If you go to www.poitou-charentes.drire.gouv.fr/vehicles.RTI/7-5-2RCR09.pdf and take a look at Prescriptions Techniques Annexe 1 Section 3.6 portes et issue de secours ypu will see that your inspector got it wrong ,so good on you.

[terry1956]

A W - 2007-11-01 2:41 PM

 

Terry1956

If you beat French red tape you deserve an emormous pat on the back.

Alas whoever issued your certificate broke the law.

If you go to www.poitou-charentes.drire.gouv.fr/vehicles.RTI/7-5-2RCR09.pdf and take a look at Prescriptions Techniques Annexe 1 Section 3.6 portes et issue de secours ypu will see that your inspector got it wrong ,so good on you.

This is the way it was done. We needed LHD head lights, a cert from Ford France giving details of the Van part of the camper, and the gas/elec test cert. At this point we came to a dead stop, due to the sliding door being on the wrong side, After a lot of talking, the only way we could regt the camper was to change the number of seating from 4 to 2, to prove this the rear seat belts and anchor points had to be removed, and the cart gris was made out for two people only, we are not allowed to carry anyone in the rear. It maybe that the fact that the rear seats had no belts etc that it passed under the van section, We have just made our Hymer B544 french, and its the Van chassis it is given the cart gris on and we need an mot every 2 years like a car here in France, but an emission test each year like a commercial van etc. The ford is in the UK at this time, we are returning next thursday, if anyone wants details from the cart gris I can supplie them then, Must of what the french do re getting the cart gris is just a paper chase, and providing facts in french for no good reason. I have been trying to get my roller coaster boat trailer passed for 4 months with out much luck, why it has to be so hard to do a trailer I don,t know, But I can,t tow it behind my france car as its over 500kg, a real pain. anyway thats off the point. michael

[snobbyafghan]

What I don't understand is, why not just keep the vehicle registered in the UK and save all this bother? Is there a law about having to get it registered in France after a certain time? Or is it to do with insurance? Or what?

 

Doug

[terry1956]

Hi, its down to a few things, In france the on cost of owner ship is very low, no road tax, 2 year full mot, axa iinsurrance with breakdown cover for the whole of europe 363 euros for the year. It just cuts out going to the UK each each year for mot,s. Also here in france the MOT stations just do mot,s and are paid just for that. the do no work on the cars etc, so they have NO interest in finding faluts that are not there, unlike UK mot stations that sometimes use the mot to build up work for their workshops.

I can give you details of someone who will do all the work needed for getting your camper on france plates if you wish,But its not to hard after doing two.

michael

[snobbyafghan]

Michael

 

I may take you up on getting more info - if so I'll pm you for details.

 

By the way, I think you said you have property in UK and France. Did you opt to join the French health system or did you remain in the NHS via your UK address? Or both? What are the choices?

 

Doug

[Brian Kirby]

I now have the book back.  It is called "Buying a Home in France".  Author: David Hampshire.  Publisher: Survival Books.  ISBN 1 901130 90 8.  Other titles on other countries, and also a book entitled "Retiring to France".

There is a website www.survivalbooks.net that has details of the book, and other possibly useful information.

I have no connection, but the book is full of useful information.

[terry1956]

Hi, in answer, as both i and my partner have pensions based on IOM companies we both set up, it would of been a bad move for us to pay into the french heath system as this is income based, We have never cut our links with the UK, bar for most of the tax system. So we have always remained in the NHS system. However things are moving very fast on this heath care issue. From my understanding, if you live in france full time and are under 65 non working then you must have heath insurrance, if you are working then you need to pay into the french NHS within your french income tax, Nowever the rub is, that when your nhs papers our removed from the UK system you may find it very hard to get back on a doctors list.I also understand that good old mr brown is trying to claim CGT on second homes out side the UK, So at the moment the choices are, remain in the NHS system for as long as poss, means keeping an address in the UK.

Pay into the french system amount based on your income, this will remove you from the nhs so you need to be sure france is for you. you have cover for two years on your E111. Best bet is to rent here, test the water for a year or so, remain within the nhs, I am sorry but its a mine field at the moment with france trying to cut people using their system and brown trying to do the same but wanting tax money at the same time.

As stated we our pulling out of france for a number of reasons, its a boring place most of the time, and keeping two houses going is a real pain. We will miss the freedom of movement the lack of traffic, low transport costs, but thats it realy. michael

[Brian Kirby]

snobbyafghan - 2007-11-02 4:14 PM What I don't understand is, why not just keep the vehicle registered in the UK and save all this bother? Is there a law about having to get it registered in France after a certain time? Or is it to do with insurance? Or what? Doug

If your vehicle is kept outside the UK for more than one year it is automatically deemed exported by DVLA.  This will be averted if it is taxed, insured and MoT'd in UK, since the DVLA records will show these events.

If you change your permanent address to France, you cannot get UK insurance, and you can't get French insurance on a non French registered vehicle.  However, I can't see any point in re-registering a RHD vehicle in France.  It would immediately lose most of its value, since very few of the French want RHD vehicles.  Also, most motor vehicles are cheaper new in France than they are in UK: this is especially true for motorhomes.  Therefore, if you spend more than 6 months of the year in France, IMO, you are far better selling your UK registered RHDs in UK, and replacing them with French registered and insured LHDs in France.

If you don't really want to do that, you don't really want to live there.  That is OK, you don't have to live in France just because you own propery in France: just visit for less that 6 months at a time, and keep a UK property as well.  Your only risk with that, so far as I can see, is some radical change in exchange rates that sharply reduces the value of your Sterling income vis a vis prices in France.  However, that can be compensated by spending less time in France.

The difficult choice is whether to sell up and move lock, stock, and barrel, or not.  You do need to be very sure you prefer France with all its funny ways strongly enough to make cutting your UK ties worthwhile.  Personally, I don't think the wine and the food, or even the weather South of the Dordogne, offer sufficient compensation to keep most people happy enough to swap UK for France.  If you like everything about France, which is difficult to be sure of unless you're pretty well fluent in French, then move out, otherwise I'd say keep your French property as a sefety valve. 

Terry's suggestion of renting, not generally too costly, while you decide, is very wise advice.

[snobbyafghan]

Brian and Terry. Sound and sensible advice and the kind of thing I've been turning over in my mind constantly. I just hope that when I make the decision, it will be the sensible one (which would be a change).

 

Brian - on a specific point that you made - the 6 consecutive months in France. As a matter of interest, how does anyone know if one has been there for 6 months or not?

 

Doug

 

[Brian Kirby]

Firstly, I doubt anyone is actively checking! 

However, if you were accused of trying to avoid some aspect of taxation, which is what this is really about, and you had stayed longer than 6 months, I'd guess they would merely ask you to prove you hadn't.  Difficult that, if you had! 

However, if you had tickets, and had used them, you'd have left a trail; so should be able to prove reasonably easily that you had been back to UK.  Then there's the credit card slips, or whatever, as well, since few of us go anywhere without spending some money on something.

[snobbyafghan]

Brian

 

Yes - that's what I reckoned. It's a case of having to prove you haven't been there that long should the necessity arise rather than anyone knowing automatically that you have.

 

Doug

 

 

 

[terry1956]

Hi in answer to motorhomes costing less here in france Thats not realy the case, the price is higher due to the higher level of tax paid up front, must prices seen on the net leave out OTR taxes. I know I live here, To buy new or second hand germany is the place. As to the RHD resale point, yes the resale value of a RHD car or motorhome is low here, but one just needs to reimport into the UK easy done, just needs an MOT.

My ford was french for two years, it was tax free motoring for two years, and two years lower and better insurance, and I just sold it back in the UK, The hymer is LHD and will be sold here in france.

Looking at things from outside any country is very hard, there are a lot of little things one will only know by living here for some time, all the hours on the net and 100,s of books are worth nothing to being here on the ground.

[A W]

30% of Brits moving to France eventually move back so good luck to terry1956 for the future.

EU rules are that you have 3 months to register a vehicle in the country where you live.Axa insurance will insure for that period of time on UK plates until it is registered.I do not know the definition of "live"

I fell foul of this because of other commitments and had to take my motorhome off the road until I got it registered here.

Secondhand vehicles are unbeliveably expensive.....there seems to be no such thing as depreciation.

RHD vehicles have a value of about a third of their UK value as the only market is other Brits.

It can be difficult to skirt around the regulations because of the frequent road blocks set up by Police/Customs.

[terry1956]

Hi, correct in as far as the rules go, But if one owns a house in the UK and one in france, then the rules go out the window a bit, I have used my french car in the UK for up to 6 months with the OK of my french insurance company, And have been pulled by police once for speeding, not once was I asked about how long I had been in the UK, and I did not get a ticket.The UK is not part of the interpol type system set up to check cars/drivers etc. I was pulled over on my quad bike this summer and the swedish police pulled up all the details of the french plated quad, but had nothing on me as my main home is in the UK. Asking why I was pulled, they just wanted to look at the quad as one of them was thinking of buying one.

There are a few checks here and there in france, but all they are interested in is your insurance cover. The cost of 2nd hand motorhomes is very high and they all have 100,s of KM on the clock and are not in the best condition, new they are expensive, best bet is to buy in germany and import into france.

Thanks for wishing us well, it will be a long year this year, having to sale two houses in the UK and buy a new one and then sale one in france, and I dislike estate agents and the whole yes no system of house selling in the UK.

Michael

[W3526602]

Hi.

 

There is talk of changing the UK MOT to every two years.

 

I read somewhere that a vehicle can only spend 6 months in any year, in France, else it has to be registered in France. Hmmmm! I would expect there to be quite a few UK trucks that cross the chanel on a Monday, spend most of the week delivering in France, then return to UK on Friday. Does the driver become liable to French inheritance laws? Trucks in other EU states can brobably do the same thing, without crossing any water.

 

Can anyone clarify?

 

Me? I would just want to visit my daughter in UK every few months.

 

602

[terry1956]

Its all very unclear, must of the rules on this are very out of date, no checks are made at all on poles etc who are driving on uk roads, do they insurrance cover, there has been a few checks at the ports french side with a policeman checking for outstanding speeding fines etc on uk cars, motorhomes etc. but people here have been driving on uk plates for years with cover from axa for one, as i say its all a bit of a black hole. michael

[Brian Kirby]

terry1956 - 2007-11-05 8:11 PM Hi in answer to motorhomes costing less here in france Thats not realy the case, the price is higher due to the higher level of tax paid up front, must prices seen on the net leave out OTR taxes. I know I live here, ...............

Terry

I puzzled by this.  I bought a van in France, and imported it back to UK.  The saving was approximately £5,000 on a £30,000 van.  That saving takes account of the difference between French and English VAT (about £500), and the UK cost of registration.  The vehicle came to me on temporary French plates, and had an export Carte Grise. 

If I had registered it in France, what would have cost me the extra £5,000?

[terry1956]

In answer having just spend some time going around dealers here in normandy, They overprice all the 2nd hand models, and the new ones are always base models, I wanted a hymer S model, the price for a 2006 new model, ie one that they had on their forecourt for sometime, was over £10,000 pounds more then a 2007 german dealers price, Yes if you buy a french make you may get a better deal, but in general all transport items are a lot dealer here due to the high level of tax, mind you on cost is a lot less then in the UK, service costs from main dealers run at between 55 and 60 euros an hour and filters etc cost far less.

As stated best thing to do is buy in german, not france.