Guest Cabbytheone Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I recently read a most disturbing article in MMM magazine.It stated that,following recent European legislation,all drivers who wish to drive vehicles in excess of 3500 kg,must pass the medical requirements applicable to large goods vehicle drivers after January 2012.This is regardless of the age of the driver concerned.I currently drive a Lunar Roadstar 786 (MAM 3850 kg) under "Grandad's Rights" having passed my driving test prior to 1997,but in 2012 will only be 50 years old.As I understand the new legislation,if I wish to carry on driving my motorhome(as I obviously do),I will have to pass the LGV medical.I cannot do this as I did not renew my LGV licence on my 45th.birthday due to failing eyesight not being able to pass the LGV eyesight test.However I drive my motorhome just fine,have held a completely clean licence for 29 years and cannot understand the requirement for such a draconian measure.Does anyone have the inside line on this legislation as I feel it may affect many hundreds of larger motorhome owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Surely if your eyesight deficiency can be corrected by the use of glasses or contact lenses then you should pass the medical, or have i got it wrong? I see plenty of truck drivers wearing glasses, how do they pass the medical? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cabbytheone Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Hiya Dave. Sadly,even with glasses,I cannot pass the LGV eyesight test.I also see plenty of LGV drivers wearing glasses but I assume they must have those glasses in order to pass the test also.This is on the assumption that no one wears glasses unless forced to.The test prescribes exacting requirements for LGV drivers,and if you cannot pass those requirements,then you don't get the licence.This,of course,implies that if you need glasses to pass the medical,then you are legally required to wear those glasses at all times when driving LGV's. I drove Fire Appliances to incidents for 14 years without glasses,but the standards for driving cars are much less severe and hence,can currently drive my large motorhome quite legally and safely and currently I drive about 16000 miles per annum.However,I am worried about the forthcoming legislation and would like some official clarity on the situation,not just for myself but for others in my position.Best regards. Cabby the One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Dave answer the question please Ii want to know IS it true ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 If this is true its not the end of the world driving a 3500kg motorhome is it. At least you can still travel and enjoy your interest, albeit in a lighter van.... I am diabetic and restricted to 3500kg anyway. also license is valid for 3 years only, and I have to have a "field of vision" test every 3 years. This is a bit of a concern, but hey ho life goes on..... 2012 is a way off yet, and downgrading from 3850 too 3500kg is manageable, although those with RV's will be throwing a fit *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Is this just another money spinner ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 JudgeMental - 2007-11-07 5:58 PM although those with RV's will be throwing a fit *-) Only those driving sub 7.5tonnes, over that and you need a "C" licence anyway. I will admit there are those driving without, but most have it. Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 As a motorhome is not a HGV the tougher Medical regukations will not apply . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Cabbytheone: Please could you provide identification details of the MMM article (ie. which issue it was published in and the page number)? Journalists don't always get things right and, even when they do, there's no guarantee that the information provided will be correctly interpreted. There is an EU Directive on Driving Licences that is due to be implemented by 2012. This covers many changes to the present trans-EU driving-licence situation, but I'm not aware that these include regulations that will impact on motorcaravanners in the manner you suggest in your initial posting. You may be correct in your understanding but, until I can read the MMM article and form my own conclusions, there's no point in me trying to offer you useful advice on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I suspect that the reference was to a posting I made on this forum earlier this year. An abstract was printed in MMM. The inplementation of the new rules is to happen in January 2010. There are various changes to current rules (some simplification to and extension of the trailer rules, for example), but the key one is that, to retain C1, C1E, D1, D1E, then you will have to pass the same test as HGV drivers. This is exactly the same as is currently the case for those reaching 70 - it justs extends it lower down the age band. And the test has to be repeated at 5 year intervals. It is not yet clear how it will be implemented, but presumably, to avoid a rush to the Doctor's, it will be phased in. It will apply right across the EU. If you want a copy of the EU Directive, let me know and I'll dig out the reference. A body under the auspices of the CCPR is already lobbying (as it did over the original EU Directive) with the DforT over implementation and includes the Caravan Club, Caravan Council, RYA and the main body for 'horse' people (sorry - can't remember the name) as all are affected by these changes. However, all that can now be done is to influence implementation details. This is already EU Law and must be implemented in Member Countrys' Law by 2010. Incidentally, I do not want to be negative, but, if you are deemed to have unsuitable eyesight to drive a commercial vehicle with a Maxmium Authorised Mass (MAM) in excess of 3500 Kgs., why are you suitable when the vehicle is converted to a motorhome or motorcaravan? I know the present rules permit it, but I'm asking about practicality? Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Mel , Hi when you say the same TEST do you mean as in driving or the Medical part and or both ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Just to be clear - does this mean the "grandfather rights" on our existing driving licences will be revoked? I'm not bothered about this from a motorhome point of view as I never intend to have a big one, but I sometimes drive a borrowed minibus (D1) on church outings etc. Trouble is, I don't need it often enough to go through "commercial" qualifying for it. Will they really tear up the licence I've already got? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayKay Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hi Cabbytheone, Like you I also drove the big red lorries with blue lights for 14 years, although I am retired now I still maintain my LGV licence and pass the medical wearing my glasses. May I suggest that if you are unable to pass the LGV eyesight test then perhaps you should hang up your shiny pants and stop driving altogether for the safety of other road users as you & I know only too well the carnage that can be caused. John D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Mel E: I think when you say "The inplementation of the new rules is to happen in January 2010", you really meant "January 2012" - or am I wrong? Earlier forum discussion on this subject can be found on: http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=8235&posts=26 I note that, towards the end of the thread, "Robinhood" argues that those drivers with 'Grandad's Rights' driving licence-wise may not be directly affected by the changes until their existing licences expire (ie. at age 70). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjphillips Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Just a word of warning!!!!!!!!!!Should you have to downsize to a 3500kg M/H then have written proof of its unladen weight.Mine was plated at 3500 but I was well over that when I weighed it prior to a holiday when laden ready to go.Aparently its now a requirement to have proof of its unladen weight when having it MOT.I completely emptied mine including removing the matress(I usually do during the Winter anyway) this week for the MOT & guess what it weighed 3400 without even myself in it!!Not much room left for holiday gear.Because of my origional flap a couple of years ago I had got it upgraded to 3850 so I am now legal anyway.I wonder how many motorhomes out there are so close to their GVW they'd be well over as soon as even the wife or theirselves get in without their normal holiday luggage?In my case previousely I was 20kg over with just myself & that mattress.BE WARNED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Responding: 1. Yes, sorry, it is 2012. 2. Yes, it's the medical test, not the driving test. 3. If I read the EU Legislation correctly, then, yes, there is no mention of grandfather rights. Others also read it this way. Remember that there are no grandfather rights in many other Eu countries. 4. It's nearly a year since I studied this, so I will have another look at it when time permits and talk to my contacts who will know how implementation planning and UK consultation is progressing. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbytheone Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Hello to Michele,Derek,Mel,Tony,Jaykay and BJ . Thank you for replying to this discussion thread.I am sorry for the delay in this reply,I have been away from the computer for a day.I will try to answer everyone's questions.I have consulted my Driving Licence(wearing my glasses of course so I can read the small print) and it appears that if your motorhome has a MAM of more than 3500kg.then it is driven under licence catagory C1 (C1E if you tow a trailer behind the motorhome).Anyone who passed their car driving test prior to 1997(1st.January) has this entitlement on their licence under the "Grandad's Rights" I mentioned in my initial posting.Hence any driver who has passed their car driving test since 1/1/1997 is not entitled to catagory C1,and drives a car under catagory B (BE if they tow a trailer).This is particularly important for small motorhome owners who trade up to a bigger model with a MAM greater than 3500kg.They must ensure they have catagory C1 on their licence or they will have to pass a further test to obtain it.This is regularly mentioned in MMM magazine.The article in question was indeed written by MMM consultant Mel and appeared in the August 2007 edition on page 226 ,topleft corner. It refers clearly to the C1 and C1E catagories and affects me directly,which is why I am worried.Mel made a very valid point in his reply about my suitability to drive at all,but misunderstands the nature of my condition.I am long sighted which means that only things up close to my face are blurred,hence I wear reading glasses to correct this.Items at distance (i.e. anything the other side of the steering wheel) are in perfect focus and do not affect my driving at all.Thankfully there is not much reading to be done whilst driving a motorhome,car or anything else for that matter.However we have probably all seen drivers who disagree with me on this,with newspapers,mobile phones and maps regularly seen on their steering wheels whilst doing 70mph plus.Jaykay makes a similar point,but I have to say my shiny pants are long gone,mine are a sort of quilty blue,with yellow bits that light up in the dark-very trendy.However,as a very responsible driver,who has held a clean licence for 29 years without even a speeding ticket or parking ticket issued against me(how many people can claim that?)I would cease driving if I thought I was a danger to myself,my loved ones or the public in general.Like jaykay I too have "picked up the pieces" at HUNDREDS of RTC's over the decades.I need to maintain the ability to drive a large motorhome,as small ones do not adequately meet the needs of my disabled wife.Indeed the next one will have to have an extra wide door and wheelchair lift fitted.This is an important topic and perhaps Mel could elaborate in a full feature in MMM magazine in the near future,as it will affect many hundreds of large motorhome owners.Best regards.Cabby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Now I'm confused Cabbytheone, you say that your only eyesight problem is one of long sightedness (me too now) yet you can't pass the eyesight poriton of the LGV medical test. How come? Either you can see clearly at sensible driving distances and should therefore surely be able to pass the medical or you can't without glasses and would therefore have to wear the glasses during the eyesight portion of the medical. I confess I've never had to undergo this medical so I don't know what is involved in the eyesight portion of it but surely if your eyesight is good enough that you can drive anything then it shouldn't mean you can't pass the medical. Or am I missing something? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Mmm.... so your eyesight is perfectly OK with glasses? what exactly have you to worry about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbytheone Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Hiya Dave. I believe I am in a similar position to thousands of drivers up and down the country who wear glasses for reading but for nothing else.When driving,only your long vision is being used i.e. you are looking out of the windscreen at the road ahead,or you are looking at the instruments or controls within the cab,or in the mirrors for what is happening behind.This is all completely clear and hence I can drive completely safely in all conditions.This is covered by the eyesight requirements for car drivers to be able to read a number plate at 20 metres with 50mm characters.Where I am failing is in regard to the eyesight requirements for LGV licence renewal which is far more stringent and requires abilities in respect of long and close vision,depth perception,colour perception,visual acuity etc.and hence cannot obtain a renewal for my former LGV licence.When I passed it was called HGV class 3. However I am still legally entitled to drive my large motorhome,and will continue to do so.However the new legislation will stop me in my tracks it would seem (Mel's reply cleared things up).I hope other owners of large motorhomes become aware of this situation,and MMM could help in this respect by publishing an article so everyone can read it.Hope this clears up your confusion,best regards.Cabbytheone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Hi Allan, thanks for that but I have to ask could you not get varifocals or bifocals to give the correction you require for close up whiel giving you clear plain glass for long distance vision? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I have not long ago had my medical for my old PSV and because I am now over the ripe age of 45 I had to have a full medical and full eye sight test. On the ey sight part the optician told me you have 6.6. vision excellent I have not seen 6.6 for years . He then brought a book so close to my eyes it hurt I automatically stopped him . He said tell me when its comftable for you and then he proceeded to tell me that that was common with age. Q" would I now fail a HGV medical with 6.6 vision ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlieme Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Varifocals. I tried them at one time for my work (engineering) where clearly defined lines, angles and measurements were required. They were not suitable. They made all straight lines "radiused" due to the lens as a whole being non simetrical ie "varied" Also when driving I did not feel safe due to the cab framework stucture becoming 'non-true'. I found it also affected kerb lines and other road features. It may be fine for some but I chose not to use them as I'm a perfectionist in my trade and leisure interests. The central vision was fair but the side aspects I could not reason with. Others may have a different opinion. Regarding Cabbytheone, my traffic record since an MOT Military test 1948 (almost 60 years) (I was a high ranking Officer Chauffer) is two parking fines, one in a car park outside defined lines, the other was misreading a very simple sign in London. The attendant must have laughed, I was inches out on the wrong side ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Dave Newell - 2007-11-09 2:00 PM Hi Allan, thanks for that but I have to ask could you not get varifocals or bifocals to give the correction you require for close up whiel giving you clear plain glass for long distance vision? D. I have to wear these or else I would be for ever changing glasses for reading etc.... its one thing being in charge of a car and another a 4-5 ton motorhome as any incident/accident could be catastrophic for yourselves and others. legislation normally changes because specific risks are identified, not just for the hell of it, or to make life difficult for us - in fact quite the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbytheone Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Hello Dave,Michele,Charlie & me and the Judge! Thank you for your interesting replies.On the subject of varifocals,they would probably be the answer if I planned to start reading whilst driving along!This is not in my current masterplan however,so will put that idea on the backburner for the moment.Must comiserate with Charlie and me as those penalty tickets must have hurt!The judge mentions 4-5 ton motorhomes(these only exist in my dreams) as our snooziebus is 3850kg MAM.This is only 3 medium sized blokes above the MAM for licence catagory B.However it is where the dividing line lies with respect to the legislation and hence puts me in the frame!Looks like I will be heading for laser surgery in the near future if it is suitable! best regards to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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