Driving Licence restrictions post January 2012.

[Dave Newell]

This is all I've been able to find on the web so far regarding eyesight standards:

For LGV/PCV driving, the minimum eyesight standard approximates to being able to read, in good daylight, a number plate at 20.5 metres with EACH EYE INDIVIDUALLY. THAT IS, YOU NEED GOOD VISION IN EACH EYE. REMEMBER, THIS IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT.

 

So as I see it you shouldn't have a problem with passing the eyesight test.

 

D.

[michele]

Nor do I actually, if I passed it to keep my PSV with long distnace then I cant see that its a problem to you after all you are supposed to be reading the road .

[Guest JudgeMental]

michele - 2007-11-09 3:12 PM

 

Nor do I actually, if I passed it to keep my PSV with long distnace then I cant see that its a problem to you after all you are supposed to be reading the road .

 

I have to wear reading glasses to read - so varifocals mean, at work I can see clearly and read documents without changing glasses....

 

in the van they enable me to see the instrument cluster and computer information as well. I am a bit of a book worm but stick to audio books on the road....... *-)

[michele]

judge I hope you do stick to audi books on the road :D

I think the whole point is you can drive a 3500 but not a 3800?

can't see alot of difference myself and as Cabby states he needs this for his Disabled wife .

[Cabbytheone]

Hello everybody once again. I do hope Dave and Michele are right as it would make things so much easier.I am eagerly awaiting the results of Mel's investigations(see his reply further back in the list) in order to put this one to bed once and for all.Sadly I am not an expert on the requirements and technicalities of the LGV eyesight test,I was just told I did not meet the requirements having just been tested on a machine.That is all I can say and will not comment further.I do hope however that this discussion has raised awareness of this issue for others,as all good motorhome owners will want to remain legal after January 2012.Lastly,thanks again to all who have added to the discussion,your comments are appreciated.Cabbytheone signing off.

 

[Tony Jones]

Cabbytheone - 2007-11-09 12:48 PM

 

I need to maintain the ability to drive a large motorhome,as small ones do not adequately meet the needs of my disabled wife.Indeed the next one will have to have an extra wide door and wheelchair lift fitted.

 

Even this can be accommodated in a smaller van, although of course I don't know the details of your wife's disabilty. The firm we're getting our new van from, Roy Wood Transits are also govt approved mobility specialists. According to their literature, they do several van conversions which can be fitted with wheelchair lifts etc. Might be worth investigating when the time comes, although I realise you're going to be looking for something very specific.

All I'm saying is don't rule out the idea of a smaller van, even though you need wheelchair access.

 

Tony

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

as I said originally its not the end of the world . First off I would try glasses then another medical to see exactly what the position is. then you have 4 yers to plan accordingly. lots of people manage with smaller vans and there are lots of 6.5 - 7M 3500kg vans about that can be converted and where theres a will theres a way :-D

[Brian Kirby]

Don't know if this link would help, there is contact information for the Driver's Medical Group in the leaflet.  http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/leaflets/inf4d.pdf

However, I have to say I'm also confused, since it seems that the numberplate test is still the main operative requirement.  The acuity requirements do not seem to require good vision at reading distances. 

The only objection I can see to poor vision at reading distance, and one I have to live with, is that of being able to see the instrument panel clearly enough to read the speedometer reliably.  I couldn't do this at night without reading glasses, and driving wearing reading glasses ain't very clever!  However, I now find my distance vision has deteriorated as well, so that judging the speed of distant, but approaching, vehicles was becoming unreliable. 

Thus I got a pair of varifocals and now use these while driving.  Silly thing is, I take them off as soon as I arrive, and revert to no bins for normal activities, and readers for reading.  Thus, I never really adjust to the oddities of varifocals, which do take a bit of geting used to.  Be warned, however, there are many flavours of varifocal, some offering much better reading performance than others, and there is little reliable guidance on which does what, the better performing lenses seeming always to be the most expensive option.  

Notwithstanding, bi-focals or varifocals offer corrections for long and short sightedness and, from what the leaflet says, should enable the LGV/HGV tests to be passed provided the lenses are of the correct prescription, and the wearer has adjusted to their use.

[JayKay]

Cabbytheone,

 

Are you still a serving firefighter and if so was your LGV medical with a Brigade doctor ?

 

If this is the case would the wearing of glasses for this medical mean that you would no longer be operational and would have to do a non operational desk flying job.

 

I am pleased to know that your eyesight is not as bad as I first thought but I can understand your concerns over the 2012 test's as the thing I miss the most is the "Blue light born again hooligan" driving.

 

John D.

[Mel E]

This has gone off topic a bit, but permit me to say a couple of things about varifocals (as opposed to EWU legislation!).

 

First, it is important to be aware that we use two organs in seeing things - not just the eyes. We also use the brain. The brain is masterful at filtering what it gets from the eyes. For example, some years sgo I developed a very bad case of seeing stars, and had to stop flying and driving. I saw a specialist who basically said, 'Give it time for your brain to eliminate the starts and you'll be fine. They'll still be there but you won't see them.' He was absolutely right - they disappeared in about4 weeks or so.

 

Secondly, varifocals will inevitably distort vision because it's impossible, in a standard lens, to make a lens profile that exactly matches the need of the cornea and eye lens. But again the brain will compensate - you just have to give it time. I've worn varifocals since they first became available, and the only problems I've had is with poorer quality lenses. For example, though they might be fine for others, I could not handle Kodak lenses nearly as well as the ones I new use.

 

So my advice to those who've rejected varifocals is:

 

1. Try again and give yourself a fair chance to adapt to them.

 

2. Use an optician who will replace them with a different make of lens if the first ones don't work - choosing a cheapy 'we'll put it all together in 10 minutes' optician is not a very good idea.

 

Mel E

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[Charlieme]

The varifocals I tried (from Boots) were as an experiment. I function very well reading and driving with a normal standard pair.

 

As said previously in conjunction with precision engineering they were awful.

[Derek Uzzell]

I'm aware that Mel E intends to take another look at the EU Driving Licence Directive. If anyone wants to do the same, then it's downloadable (I'm assuming this is the latest version) from:

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/oj/2006/l_403/l_40320061230en00180060.pdf

 

Vision requirements are given on Pages 30 & 31.

 

Personally, if I were in Cabbytheone's shoes, I'd contact the National Caravan Council and ask what they understand the position to be regarding existing UK holders of the C1 licence entitlement and the medical requirements specified in the Directive. (Basically, on 1/1/2012 will an existing C1 holder need to take a medical examination to retain that entitlement and, if so, when?) The NCC has been intimately involved with the Directive and should, as a result, be able to offer expert advice. There are some NCC comments on:

 

http://www.nationalcaravan.co.uk/home/index.asp?nid=540

 

[Mel E]

Derek,

 

1. The NCC is probably not the most appropriate body for a private individual to contact - it is basically the lobbying body for manufacturers and distributors and does not normally deal with individual 'member of the public' enquiries. The Caravan Club has been represented at all the meetings to lobby on and consider this new legislation, and their technical help department is a more appropriate point of contact.

 

2. The web site reference you give is now quite old (over a year, I think) and concentrates on another change in the new EC Directive - that to the B Licence that permits some additional flexibility for towing and was specifically included for caravan owners. However, this extension is only available after additional training (the Directive doesn't specifically mention a test and the hope is to avoid the need for one). However, the training is prescribed in some detail and is likely to require some 7 hours including some time on public roads. Since only qualified DforT trainers are permitted to give training on public roads, this limits the applicability of the proposed extension, which permits tow vehicle up to 3500 MAM plus trailer combinations of up to 4250 combined MAM (at present 4250 is permitted but only with a trailer up to 750 MAM). Note the presence of the MAM condition.

 

In practice, it will be easier for luggers of large caravans to take the BE test which removes all trailer restrictions, including the MAM one.

 

3. Unfortunately, an attempt to increase the tow vehicle limit to 4250 for motorhome owners failed and we are stuck with 3500 on a B licence. 3500 has, of course, been entrenched in many other countries' law for many years.

 

4. As I mentioned earlier in this post (or a similar one), the NCC, Caravan Club, RYA, British Horse Society and several other bodies (including the British Gliding Association which is why I became involved) whose members either use large vehicles or tow large trailers for leisure purposes have been meeting for some years under the auspices of the CCPR (Central Council for Phys Rec) to discuss and lobby on this EU Directive and they have had some success in getting some changes. They are now concentrating on UK implementation and doing all they can to assist the DforT make the right decisions, both now and after the mandatory UK consultation period.

 

However, let me be clear. This is now already EU Law and must be incorporated into UK Law. The only adjustments possible are where the EU Legislation has given local law makers discretion over how best to implement. Thus there is discretion over the extension to the B Licence, but not to the medical which is prescribed in great detail. The only way something can be referred back to Brussels is if, in working on implementation, it is discovered that it is not possible to do so, for example because it would clash with existing law. This happened with the 5th Insurance Directive, and it has been referred back and is thus effectively dead in the UK until it is re-written.

 

5. I will try and make contact with the Implementation sub-committee members over the next few days. It will take a few days, however, so I ask everyone to be patient in the meantime.

 

Mel E

====

[Mel E]

The latest tidbit I have on this is that, according to the NCC, the changes to driving licence rules must be implemented within 26 years.

 

However, I think that's a mis-reading of the legislation and my understanding is that the 26 years refers to full implementation of pan-EU Driver Licence documentation.

 

More shortly.

 

Mel E

====

[olley]

Hi Took my "C" test in May 04, the examiner asked if the glasses around my neck were for reading I said yes and they weren't mentioned again.

 

As others have said you must undergo a full HGV medical not a cut down version, and over 45 its every 5 years.

 

Olley

[Mel E]

I have checked the current position. Implementation of the 3rd Driving Licence Directive is now in the hands of the DSA (Driving Standards Agency). They are holding initial meetings prior to full stautory consultation.

 

At present, they are concentrating on that bit of the directive that slightly relaxes the B Licence (allowing combinations of tow vehicle and trailer up to 4250 MAM rather than the previous limits of either a combined 3500 or 3500 + a 750MAM trailer). In my view this relaxation is pretty worthless given the training one must undergo to get it.

 

No discussion have yet been held on the medical issues and I will keep you informed when this happens.

 

Mel E

====

[michele]

olley - 2007-11-11 4:52 PM

 

Hi Took my "C" test in May 04, the examiner asked if the glasses around my neck were for reading I said yes and they weren't mentioned again.

 

As others have said you must undergo a full HGV medical not a cut down version, and over 45 its every 5 years.

 

Olley

I wonder if sitting the full PSV medical will get me off of sitting the HGV medical ?

[olley]

michele - 2007-11-12 11:21 AM

I wonder if sitting the full PSV medical will get me off of sitting the HGV medical ?

 

Is there a difference in the medicals? I thought there was just one. I now have a full "C" and a provisional "C+E" I assumed that I also had a "D" provisional. Maybe I am wrong?

 

Olley

[marcob]

The same medical applies for both HGV and PSV and also for C1.

Not sure about provsional D licence entitlement though.

 

Regards