winterising water tank autosleeper nuevo

[auntygranty]

Having a primitive outside tank on the above I thought I would insulate it with a kit from CAK Tanks which involves wrapping tank with insulation and fitting their low wattage immersion heater. Has anyone of you knowledgeable lot done this? how effective is it? I like to run with some fresh water in this tank so I will need to wire it perhaps from the fridge feed so I dont get freeze ups on the move and then have some sort of switching arrangement to the leisure batts when on site. The feed from this tank is a prob it is just tacked across underneath from one side to other ( Autosleeper should move out of the 'middle Ages' ) I thought of moving this pipe inside but have to get it across the floor. Any comments would be usefull. Auntygranty.

[peejay]

Hi;

 

Unfortunately there is no 100% satisfactory solution to winterizing a Nuevo.

 

We had a 2004 Nuevo which was ordered with an inboard tank as a factory option to avoid this very situation so I can't comment on the tank lagging aspect.

Unfortunately A/S in their infinite wisdom still ran the water pipe unlagged from the tank underneath the van to the water pump on the other side :-S

I complained to A/Sleepers and they managed to reroute the pipe - Not strictly inboard - but on ours there was a metal channel near the fridge that ran across the vehicle which (I think) carried all the wiring, they fed the pipe through there which kept all but the hardest of frosts at bay. In your case with the external tank you would still have to lag the remainder of the exposed pipe from the tank to the channel itself of course and unfortunately even that will eventually freeze in very cold conditions unless some form of heat can be introduced to the pipe as well as the tank itself.

Having said that if you are just using the vehicle throughout the occasional UK cold snap then you should be OK.

 

The other problem with Autosleepers is their pathetic small bore waste tank pipe and home brew type tap which freezes up very easily. Your best bet here is to try and fit a larger bore outlet and let the waste water run through to a bucket outside and empty this on a regular basis. Its a lot easier to thaw out a bucket than a waste tank.

 

I used mine quite a lot in alpine regions and used to abandon the waste tank and re-route the kitchen waste pipe to a container in the cupboard below.

 

 

pete

 

[Brian Kirby]

You don't say where you are intending to go with your van in winter.  If all you want to do is tour the Southern half of the UK, provided you can add a trace heating element to the transverse water pipe, and lag it with waterproof wrapped lagging, all should be OK. 

However, I doubt if running the tank heater from the fridge circuit would be wise.  I think you would need to install a separate feed for the tank + the trace heating elements, which will be likely to have quite a heavy combined current draw, and then take the second feed from the leisure battery via a mains switched relay, so that it will only work when on hook up.  That way, you can't forget it is on and accidentally flatten your battery - which, depending on the heater fitted to Nuevos, may result in no heating either!

However, if you want to go Alpine winter sporting I'd say get both tank and water pipe inside the van, above the insulated floor.  With temperatures below -15C, and with added wind chill a possibility, I would be concerned that one, or other, of your proposed remedies would prove inadequate and something would eventually freeze.  Maybe not every year, maybe not every trip, but sooner or later!

You must remember that the definition of cold is an absence of heat.  Cold is the default state, heat is the exception.  Therefore, it is not cold that penetrates, or as some say, "gets in", it is the heat that gets out.  All insulation does is to resist the passage of heat: it does not prevent it.  This means that if in normal conditions, for a given temperature difference to ambient, water will freeze in one hour, with insulation it will take longer than one hour.  It may be 2 hours, it may be 8 hours, but eventually it will freeze.  If you then add a heater, if it to prevent freezing, its heating capacity must exceed the rate of heat loss from the water to ambient through the insulation.

If you can guarantee a perfect application of insulation, with the same thickness everywhere and no missed patches, you may earn peace of mind.  However, working on the underside of a van, even if on a lift, applying insulation to this standard is almost impossible.  There is likely to be a chink somewhere and, if that chink is on the pipe it will freeze there, if on the tank, it will freeze locally, which may, or may not, not cause supply problems.

[auntygranty]

thanks for yor advice pete - I'm not planning to go cold regions yet just planning for future - I would refit a water tank inside but as space is at a premium i may just re-rout feed pipe across floor inside van in a protective cover to two way valve that runs to a container insde the van for the odd winter use and switch back to outside for other times. auntygranty

[auntygranty]

Thanks for your imput Brian, you seem very knowledgeable, as stated in my reply to Pete on second thoughts I think I will reroute the feed pipe in the van (fairly easy) and branch off it with a valve to a portable plastic water container (small jerrycan type) in van and only use ouside tank when the frost is not present. I agree with you re the difficulties of effective insulation and i'm not keen on the tank heater idea with its problems of battery drain although I have two leisure batteries. Regretfully Autosleeper fall down on some aspects of van design,

having downsized from a Hymer with a double floor I am enjoying the smaller vehicle but missing the better facilities. Auntygranty

[Brian Kirby]

Don't be too hard on the Autosleeper, David!  They are inevitably made for the UK market, and thus for our UK climate, which generally lacks extremes, and our pattern of use, which generally involves taking the van off the road in late Autumn and not putting it back again until the following Spring. 

Your Hymer, on the other hand, was for the German market, with much more emphasis on year round use and activities such as Alpine skiing holidays.  Not really a major preoccupation for the average Autosleeper buyer!

[Derek Uzzell]

auntygranty:

 

Somewhat academic as you've (wisely in my view) decided to use the jerry-can approach, but you might have found, after you had carefully swaddled your tank in insulation, that the tank would not have fitted back in its original position without modifications being made to whatever mounting method Auto-Sleepers use.

[breakaleg]

also, if you lag your tank and it does freeze, it will take a lot longer to thaw.

pete