Which Tyres?

[panagah]

Now i am sure that this would of been discussed before but I cant see it.

 

I am purchasing some alloy wheels and have decided to renew my tyres at the same time as they are just past 4 years old and I dont like taking chances with tyres. I was thinking of sticking with the michelien camping tyre that i have had. £97 per go x4 would anyone dissuade me from this action with there choice of tyre.

Paul

[davenewellhome]

Hi Paul, yes I would dissuade you from Michelin camping tyres as long as you are sure your 'van is not overweight. My apologies for being so blunt but from my point of view Michelin camping tyres are specifically designed for vehicles that are continually overladen. Their traction abilities also leave a bit to be desired, especially in wet or otherwise less than ideal conditions. There are much cheaper (and every bit as good) options available for commercial vehicles that eill quite probably serve you better.

 

Camping tyres are under-rated compared to their true make up to allow for continual overloading.

 

D.

[panagah]

davenewell@home - 2007-12-02 9:40 PM

 

Hi Paul, yes I would dissuade you from Michelin camping tyres as long as you are sure your 'van is not overweight. My apologies for being so blunt but from my point of view Michelin camping tyres are specifically designed for vehicles that are continually overladen. Their traction abilities also leave a bit to be desired, especially in wet or otherwise less than ideal conditions. There are much cheaper (and every bit as good) options available for commercial vehicles that eill quite probably serve you better.

 

Camping tyres are under-rated compared to their true make up to allow for continual overloading.

 

D.

 

 

So what would a man of your experience reccomend then Dave? My XCs have ogt me 20 k miles with plenty of tread left. But they are rather expensive for new.

[Brian Kirby]

Whereas the Michelins may have some shortcomings, I don't think there are many true equivalents that are substantially cheaper.  Continental seem to be better regarded than Michelin by the German press, but then they are a German make. 

Whatever, my van has them and they seem OK, but hardly significantly cheaper than the equivalent XC Camping.

It seems to me, I'm afraid, slightly questionable priority selection if shelling out on alloy wheels - which do little other than look pretty - causes you to worry about the cost of the tyres with which they will be shod.  It's the tyres that may save your life, not the wheels.

There are other "Camping" alternatives, both from Continental and, I think, from Pirelli and Goodyear.  Look at these but, above all, make absolutely certain that whatever you buy is of the correct speed and load rating for your van.

[panagah]

Brian Kirby - 2007-12-02 11:57 PM

Whereas the Michelins may have some shortcomings, I don't think there are many true equivalents that are substantially cheaper.  Continental seem to be better regarded than Michelin by the German press, but then they are a German make. 

Whatever, my van has them and they seem OK, but hardly significantly cheaper than the equivalent XC Camping.

It seems to me, I'm afraid, slightly questionable priority selection if shelling out on alloy wheels - which do little other than look pretty - causes you to worry about the cost of the tyres with which they will be shod.  It's the tyres that may save your life, not the wheels.

There are other "Camping" alternatives, both from Continental and, I think, from Pirelli and Goodyear.  Look at these but, above all, make absolutely certain that whatever you buy is of the correct speed and load rating for your van.

Sorry Brian I think the point is geting missed.It's not the price, merely the quality. I have the Xs at present, but what I am interested in is what I am getting for my money. As my original post stated I would never scrimp on tyres, and the Micheleins have been good to me, yes I am spending on alloys for no other reason than improving hte look of my van and therefore just want a good quality tyre to go on them. If you were sugesting that a set of continentals etc would be a far better bet but would be dearer but would offfer a better grip/ milage etc I would be wuite happy to go with them.I hope that adds some clarit to what I am asking.

[Dave Newell]

I've just recently replaced the two front tyres on my motorhome with Toyo M&S tyres and they give much better grip in wet conditions than the old tyres (unknown brand but standard road tread pattern). As long as you make sure the tyres you get are suitably rated in load and speed for your 'van then any decent brand would do. I got mine from http://www.mytyres.co.uk/start.html .

 

I have little personal experience of Michelin (or any other brand) camping specific tyres other than driving customers vehicles on road test but I have on occasions found the Michelin ones to be somewhat lacking in grip in wet conditions and several customers have reported the same to me.

 

D.

[Derek Uzzell]

Panagah:

 

I believe only you can decide whether it's preferable to continue with 'camping car' tyres on your motorhome, or to use 'ordinary' van tyres instead.

 

If you choose to use camping-car tyres, then you will be restricted to (I think) three makes/patterns - Michelin's "XC Camping", Continental's "VancoCamper", or Pirelli's "Citynet Camper". The arguments for choosing camping-car tyres are stated on the following link:

 

http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/uk/en/continental/automobile/themes/vans/mobile/vanco_camper/vanco_camper_en.html

 

Camping-car tyres tend to be more expensive than equivalent van tyres made by the same manufacturer and availability can sometimes prove to be limited. While there are plenty of relatively inexpensive van tyres about, there is no such thing as a cheap camping-car tyre.

 

The sort of comparative data you are seeking just aren't available as, to the best of my knowledge, no camping-car tyre head-to-head tests have been carried out. In June 2002 the German magazine "pro-mobil" tested 215/75 R16C tyres suitable for heavier motorhomes, but, at that time, the only camping-car tyres were being made by Michelin. The tyre pattern that performed best in the test was Continental's Vanco-10, while XC Camping's performance was relatively lack-lustre. But it needs emphasising that this test compared a selection of 10-ply van tyres with an 8-ply 'reinforced' camping-car tyre and (although many motorcaravanners seem to think otherwise) there is no guarantee that an 8-ply Continental Vanco-8 van tyre will perform identically to a Vanco-10. Also, the test covered on-road behaviour (wet/dry braking, cornering, etc.) but not off-road grip or longevity. A summary of the test is on:

 

http://www.motorcaravanning.com/vehicles/tyre_test.htm

 

XC Camping is the oldest design of camping-car tyre and the one most commonly fitted as original equipment to motorhomes: the Continental and Pirelli offerings are more recent, but whether they are 'better' than the Michelins is anybody's guess.

 

As Dave Newell suggests, specialised camping-car tyres are not essential and there are plenty of motorhomes driving around with normal van tyres fitted (most Ford- or Mercedes-based ones for instance). However, if you prefer the camping-car tyre option and have been happy with the Michelin product, I can't really see why you shouldn't stick with it. Another reason for staying with XC Camping is, presumably, that this is what is currently on your spare-wheel (that's assuming your motorhome has a spare-wheel of course!). As you are opting for just four alloy wheels I guess you intend to use your spare-wheel purely for emergencies (ie. like the 'skinny' spare-wheel supplied with many cars). In which case you will need to keep an eye on its condition and age as tyres continue to degrade even when unused.

[Guest Tracker]

Other aspects that are worthy of mention are road noise and ride comfort.

 

Does anyone have any comparative information please?

 

I would happily forego some longevity, but not wet or off road grip, for a quieter tyre with a less violent ride.

 

Any thoughts anyone?

[Mel E]

Surely you cannot go wrong if you fit the tyres recommended by the original base vehicle manufacturer? Or, as Dave says, an alternative with all the right numbers on the sidewall?

 

Why are we making it so complicated?

 

Mel E

====

[Guest Tracker]

Forgive my cynicism but aren't OE tyres simply the best deal on tyres that the maker can get - not necessarily the best tyres for the job?

 

No denying that OE tyres are a safe bet, but what if the buyer wants tyres with a better performance in certain areas?

[Tomo3090]

Don't wish to sound flippant here, but how fast are you cornering and braking in your van if you need a special tyre for in the wet?

 

Surely you drive at a speed according to the conditions at the time and providing you are using a correct tyre with sufficient tred depth then that will do, or am I missing something?

[Dave Newell]

Tomo3090 - 2007-12-03 10:37 AM

 

Don't wish to sound flippant here, but how fast are you cornering and braking in your van if you need a special tyre for in the wet?

 

Surely you drive at a speed according to the conditions at the time and providing you are using a correct tyre with sufficient tred depth then that will do, or am I missing something?

 

Yes you are missing something Tomo, some tyres grip the road better in wet conditions, generally for two reasons. 1. They are made of a softer rubber compound and 2. they have a better tread design for removing the water. As most motorhomes carry the majority of their weight on the rear axle front wheel drive 'vans can suffer wheelspin on take off, especially uphill. My own 'van falls into this exact group and at traffic lights on a local hill it was almost impossible to take off in the wet without some wheelspin. The new tyres have cured this and it will now take off from those lights without any wheelspin at all, even in monsoon like conditions.

 

The same occurs with cornering, if you have hard rubber compound tyres with poorer water clearance abilities then some corners can catch you out, even in a motorhome (and no I don't drive too fast for the conditions). Wet weather braking is improved with the softer rubber in general too.

 

D.

[parkmoy]

Are there any problems with using so called 'winter' tyres all year round? I was looking at some test results on the site Dave Newell mentioned and some winter tyres gave better results for noise and wear as well as grip than a lot of 'summer' tyres.

[Dave Newell]

The only problems I'm aware of with using M&S or "winter" spec tyres all year round is that many of them create more road noise than ordinary or "summer" tyres and they can wear at a higher rate. To me this latter point is of little significance for the majority of motorhome owners as the average mileage is so low they generally die of old age rather than getting worn out. I certainly don't intend to change my tyres for summer use.

 

D.

[Basil]

Only just to say I have been more than happy with the Goodyear G26's I had fitted to ours (recommended by Don Madge at the time) after having a blow out with another well known make and type that was new, they grip well, are reasonably quiet on the road and seem to be wearing well with the most even wear, completely equal across the whole tyre and commented on by the MOT tester this year, I have seen on any tyre I have used. Very happy with them and will buy again.

 

Bas

[twooks]

Dave Newell - 2007-12-03 1:13 PM

 

The only problems I'm aware of with using M&S or "winter" spec tyres all year round is that many of them create more road noise than ordinary or "summer" tyres and they can wear at a higher rate. To me this latter point is of little significance for the majority of motorhome owners as the average mileage is so low they generally die of old age rather than getting worn out. I certainly don't intend to change my tyres for summer use.

 

D.

 

Are they only on your front wheels or all 4?

which means that your spare is ???

weight distribution in our last two vans [both front wheel drive] has been pretty even so never really had a wheel slip problem, but have had the occasional problem when moving off very wet grass the following morning.

 

 

B-)

[Philman]

I've been using the Michelin Agilis 81 tyres for some time and cannot fault them. They are supposedly the replacement for the 14" Camping tyre, which is no longer available, according to my local expert. They are considerably cheaper than the 'Camping' tyres.

 

Phil

[panagah]

Thanks for all your replies,. Interesting debate.

 

I think I will opt for a straight swap to the michelins, they are what I have at present and no one gives a good enough rational for changing them. I have not really had any problems with wet weather grip Dave, but then I don't have the power to wheelspin away from trafic lights. (lol)

 

 

[davenewellhome]

twooks - 2007-12-03 2:49 PM

 

Dave Newell - 2007-12-03 1:13 PM

 

The only problems I'm aware of with using M&S or "winter" spec tyres all year round is that many of them create more road noise than ordinary or "summer" tyres and they can wear at a higher rate. To me this latter point is of little significance for the majority of motorhome owners as the average mileage is so low they generally die of old age rather than getting worn out. I certainly don't intend to change my tyres for summer use.

 

D.

 

Are they only on your front wheels or all 4?

which means that your spare is ???

weight distribution in our last two vans [both front wheel drive] has been pretty even so never really had a wheel slip problem, but have had the occasional problem when moving off very wet grass the following morning.

 

 

B-)

 

Hi Twooks, I already said the new tyres are on the front. My spare is the best/youngest of the remaining three tyres and will be used only as a spare. i.e. if I get a puncture I'll fit the spare (or get the AA man to if its on the side of a busy road) then when I get the punctured tyre repaired it will go back on and the spare will, once more, be the spare ;-)

 

D.

[davenewellhome]

panagah - 2007-12-03 5:49 PM

 

Thanks for all your replies,. Interesting debate.

 

I think I will opt for a straight swap to the michelins, they are what I have at present and no one gives a good enough rational for changing them. I have not really had any problems with wet weather grip Dave, but then I don't have the power to wheelspin away from trafic lights. (lol)

 

 

Neither do I with an asthmatic 2 litre petrol motor giving 80 odd BHP (when new which mine is most definitely not) but with poor weight distribution on a short wheelbase Talbot Express based coachbuilt hill starts on slippy surfaces can be a bit wild. For the record neither my day car (Rover 420 turbo diesel) or the wifes car (Ford focus 1.8 turbo diesel) can pull away from those lights in the wet without a hint of wheelspin, in fact the wife's car's traction control kicks in every time.

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

panagah - 2007-12-03 12:06 AM Sorry Brian I think the point is geting missed. It's not the price, merely the quality. I have the Xs at present, but what I am interested in is what I am getting for my money. As my original post stated I would never scrimp on tyres, and the Micheleins have been good to me, yes I am spending on alloys for no other reason than improving hte look of my van and therefore just want a good quality tyre to go on them. If you were sugesting that a set of continentals etc would be a far better bet but would be dearer but would offfer a better grip/ milage etc I would be wuite happy to go with them. I hope that adds some clarit to what I am asking.

Apologies: you're right, I hadn't correctly understood your point! 

I would add that aspects of the Michelin XC's performance on soft, and icy, surfaces, have also left me rather underwhelmed.

I think Dave makes a good point re the use of M+S tyres, esecially for getting off wet campsites.  It seems clear these do have a tendency to create more noise on smooth tarmac, although it equally seems this varies with make.  They do also wear faster. 

The problem with the Michelins, and I suspect with my present Vancos if they get tested in the same conditions, is that the tread consists mainly of ribs.  These patterns are good for long life and quiet travel on good roads.  However, when things get slippery, a tread that presents blocks, rather than ribs, does give that bit of extra "bite".  Notwithstanding, this advantage is not great since, once the wheels do begin to spin, the tread becomes caked with mud/snow, and any advantage is lost again.  The biggest problem, I suspect, would be finding a quiet winter tyre with the correct size/load/speed rating.

[twooks]

sorry Dave - phrased the question badly,

I know someone who has all weather tyres on the drive wheels only, just wondered ??????

 

B-)

[davenewellhome]

No problem Twooks, now you know two people with M&S tyres on the drive wheels only (lol) .

 

Brian, I would make one small point regarding spinning wheels getting clogged with mud. Because of the block style of tread on M&S tyres they tend to self clean when in boggy conditions so unless it is really, really bad (I'm thinking York 2006 here ;-) ) they will still find grip where ordinary road pattern tyres would just clog and spin.

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

OK.  Thanks Dave.  I'm not familiar with the particular tyre you're referring to.  I do know agricultural tyres are designed to be self clearing, but of the winter tyre patterns I have seen, all looked only to have that characteristic on the edge blocks, with the central blocks still apparently "landlocked" and capable of bunging up quite well.

As you have already said, wear is not usually a problem for motorhome tyres, they usually just die of old age.  So, if a good soft ground/snow tread is available, without the penalty of increased road noise, it deserves to be better known.  BTW, what have you done about the spare?  Do you have two, or one plus a tube of goo, or can you mix t'other with which?

[davenewellhome]

As I said in my earlier reply to Twooks, my spare is the best/youngest of the remaining three tyres. If I get a puncture in one of the front tyres (or the rear actually) I'll put the spare on which will be fine as its the same size, until I can get the puncture repaired or tyre replaced if necessary. While it might not be ideal to have mixed tyre brands and tread styles on the same axle it isn't too desparate a situation as long as you drive accordingly.

 

D.