electric hook up

[freedom]

I am going to France in January and have decided we will use camp sites for the first time. Do I need an adaptor for the electric hook up or will my standard cable and plug do? we are usually wild campers so are quite clueless about being on sites.

[michele]

Hello & welcome .

Yes you do need a little three point pin plug .Your standard cable will not do . Watch out for the reverse polarity which is common in France .

[naittaw]

Increasingly you will find the familiar EEC Plug as found on sites in the UK but you will also need an adaptor for the continental socket. If you search "reverse polarity" on this forum you will find endless discussion on the need for/or not reverse polarity check and adaptor. Have fun.

[freedom]

any other hints and tips you think I might need to know about.

[colin weston]

Some sites in France know use the same connection as we do in the UK although some of the older installations use a round pin design. Reverse polarity can occur with either type. Its worth investing in a small plug in tester which you can plug into one of your mains sockets in your van. This tester has 3 neon lights and will indicate if polarity is OK or reversed. It will also indicate if there is no earth. For more info regarding how to deal with reversed polarity you should read one of the articles that has been published in MMM. One thing worth remembering is that unlike most UK sites which have a 16 amp supply many continental sites are 10 amp or occasionally as low as 6 amp. Therefore running a fridge is OK but electric heaters or high amp kettles can be a problem. Don't run several high amp devices at the same time. My advice is read some articles. Good luck.

[malc d]

When you get onto French sites check out the amps available before you go turning everything on.

Sometimes as low as 4 amps so it's easy to 'trip' the electrics.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Le Thou]

Hi Freedom

We have covered thousands of miles through France without any problems be it on Aires, municipals or your regular sites. Don,t know where you intend to stay or for how long but the only reservation I would have is the municipal site at Cognac, there is barbed wire on the perimeter fencing to keep the travellers out but apart from that you can stay on almost any municipal site without pre-booking.

Enjoy

[Brian Kirby]

Elaine

Check carefully that you have as up to date, and reliable as possible, a list of sites open all year.

Arrive early, because the all year sites sometimes aren't, and the next one may be some way distant.

Be aware that many sites don't have, or have very few, stabilised pitches.  With wet ground in winter the chances of getting stuck are quite high.  If in doubt, don't be shy about asking to park on a site road.  Most site operators would sooner have the odd van on a road, than a pitch cut up by a lot of wheelsipn, followed by a tow off.

Also, be aware that France can be very cold indeed in January, with black ice on roads not at all uncommon even as far south as the Dordogne.  Make sure the heater works well!

[Geoff Cole]

Hi I am in France at present

I made a lead up with a blue trailing socket one end and a 13a plug the other for use at home in the uk. I bought a 13a to french 2 pin adapter in France they are availabe at most DIY outlets, I use this on some of the older sites that only have french sockets. Get a polarity tester, I have found 8 out of 10 sites have some sockets that are reverse polarity even on new bollards!

I made a reverse polarity lead up using a blue plug and trailing socket with the live and neutral wire reversed, and labelled it accordingly With all these leads I can cover any situation. If you cannot find a 13a to french plug or if you want a french plug then send me a PM with your address and I will pick one up on my travels and post it to you on my return to the UK in a weeks time. have a good trip

[djchapple]

People following Geof Cole's advice must be very careful.

 

Most of the adapters converting 13amp UK plugs for use with the French "two round pins and a hole" type of plug are not suitable for the use suggested by Geof for the following reasons:

 

1. Many of these adapters are designed for use with shavers etc and do not have an earth connection - highly dangerous.

 

2. All of those I have come across, and this is quite large as I used to work for a company similar to Eurocamp, reverse the polarity (swap neutral and live) and this has the potential of being dangerous.

 

3. They are not very robust and do not look as if they are not designed to take 10 amp of electricity, again potentially dangerous.

 

For a little bit extra why not make up a short lead with a blue 16 amp socket on one end and a French plug on the other using items that are properly earthed and designed to take the current involved..

[Basil]

djchapple - 2007-12-07 2:05 PM

 

For a little bit extra why not make up a short lead with a blue 16 amp socket on one end and a French plug on the other using items that are properly earthed and designed to take the current involved..

 

Its not even worth making your own nowdays see

 

http://www.east-coast-leisure.co.uk/modules/shop/view.asp?Prodcode=1043

 

hard to buy the bits for that let alone waste the time to do it!

 

Bas

[Brian Kirby]

djchapple - 2007-12-07 2:05 PM People following Geof Cole's advice must be very careful. Most of the adapters converting 13amp UK plugs for use with the French "two round pins and a hole" type of plug are not suitable for the use suggested by Geof for the following reasons: 1. Many of these adapters are designed for use with shavers etc and do not have an earth connection - highly dangerous. 2. All of those I have come across, and this is quite large as I used to work for a company similar to Eurocamp, reverse the polarity (swap neutral and live) and this has the potential of being dangerous. 3. They are not very robust and do not look as if they are not designed to take 10 amp of electricity, again potentially dangerous. For a little bit extra why not make up a short lead with a blue 16 amp socket on one end and a French plug on the other using items that are properly earthed and designed to take the current involved..

To which accurate list of the disadvantages/dangers inherent in Geoff's suggestion, they are not remotely weatherproof, and completely unsuitable for use in site bollards exposed to the elements (most!).

Geoff, you need to get a standard continental two male pin/female earth plug to trailing CEE blue 16A socket converter lead before you get a nasty shock!

[djchapple]

Hi Basil - I must agree that for newcomer your observation is very true.

 

However in my case i have been camping, caravanning and now motorhoming for over 40 years so i have a large collection of odds and ends from which I can easily make up almost any adapter I need often at no cost at all.

 

I was forgetting that this is not always true.

 

The other advantage of buying ready made is that it will be wired up correctly (well I should hope it will).

[Ventoux]

I have just done 8 months around Europe, mostly France, 50% of it campsite hook-up.

I had a polarity tester but never used it once.

I also used the English 3 socket continental adapters in all my old Hymer habitation sockets to plug in laptop, fan heater, travel kettle.

I only had the supply trip go off once when I had lights, fridge, fan heater on number 3 .... and i plugged in the kettle too :D

 

What are these "dangers" with reverse polarity?

[SID RAT]

Reversed polarity in France is not abnormal as their domestic systems are all switched on both the live and negative legs. So their electricians are less fussy, because it doesn't matter as much.

 

When it comes to connecting using French plugs it's worth getting two and wiring one backwards to 'untwist' the reversal.

 

The Spanish sockets look similar but seem to have a side earth. Any idea what they use in Germant and Italy?

[sshortcircuit]

Ventoux

"What are these "dangers" with reverse polarity?"

 

Its been done to death on numerous forums. It is a possibility and it is better to be safe than sorry

 

Try

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5508&start=1

[Clive]

If you have a modern motorhome it will be equipped with an earth leakage current detecting main circuit breaker. (RCD) These breakers do this by accurately comparing the current flowing in the NEUTRAL wire with that flowing in the LIVE wire. If these currents are not almost identical (because some has flowed elswehere - like via earth back to the transformer) then the trip will operate disconnecting both LIVE and NEUTRAL connections.

 

If you have an appliance with an earth leakage fault and the Mains hookup is connected correctly then the earth leakage trip will operate when you switch on that appliances ON/OFF switch.

 

If the mains hookup is connected with reverse polarity and you have an appliance with an earth leakage fault then the trip will operate as soon as you connect your hookup irrespective of the appliances ON/OFF switch (unless its double pole switching).

 

If you have an OVERLOAD situation then the circuit breaker supplying the circuit which has the overload will open irrespective of supply polarity. If this overload is because of an earth fault then the earth leakage trip will operate anyway.

 

So, I would not worry about reverse polarity unduly as faults will get picked up one way or another. Quite possibly sooner if the polarity is reversed!.

 

 

 

[Ventoux]

SID RAT - 2007-12-07 10:21 PM

 

Reversed polarity in France is not abnormal as their domestic systems are all switched on both the live and negative legs. So their electricians are less fussy, because it doesn't matter as much.

 

When it comes to connecting using French plugs it's worth getting two and wiring one backwards to 'untwist' the reversal.

 

The Spanish sockets look similar but seem to have a side earth. Any idea what they use in Germant and Italy?

 

In Germant I didnt use a camp site & Italy can't remember any problems, they must have had the big blue Euro connectors, or lent me an Italian adapter ...electrics not my best subject.

I did read loads on here about hook-up issues before going and bought a Polarity Tester, but never encountered any problems at all.

[Geoff Cole]

Hi Djchapple

I take your point but I would certainly not advise the use of any thing that is dangerous, and that I have not tested myself. The adapter I was refering to is a proper UK to french socket adapter not a shaver adapter, it fits tightly into the french socket has the same sliding earth connection that is found in french plugs and does not reverse polarity they are sealed units and carry a 5A rating, which on the older sites is all you get anyway. French plugs are 16A rated but some are of poor quality and I would not trust them with a high load, I always buy legrand or similar make. On the water profing side I have always found the older type sockets to be under cover so this has not been a problem, French plugs are also not waterproof.I have used these adapters for some time. and have had no problem. I agree that a made up lead is the best solution,but if you do not have one with you and are caught out the adaptors will provide a temporary solution.

[sshortcircuit]

Clive - 2007-12-07 10:38 PM

So, I would not worry about reverse polarity unduly as faults will get picked up one way or another. Quite possibly sooner if the polarity is reversed!.

 

Incorrect information. There are considerably more implications than you have suggested, however these are for an electricians forum and not to baffle the normal user here.

 

In all cases play safe and check polarity and adapt correctly

[Clive]

Hamish,

Please PM me with your technical arguement against my statement.

I would not have posted this statement if it were not believed to be correct. 42 years in this industry!!

Have you considered electricity distribution in Norway for example? They have three systems.

Or are you trying to sell gizmo,s or services perhaps?

C.

 

 

 

 

 

[sshortcircuit]

Not rocket science.

 

Faulty RCDs. Fault neutral to earth. Chassis earthed. Body between chassis and ground earth, current flows. - OUCH

 

"""Or are you trying to sell gizmo,s or services perhaps? ""

 

What's this got to do with the possible situation?

 

Safety is paramount and simple precautions can be taken.

 

[Clive]

Yes,

I agree, if the RCD is faulty it will not operate, polarity reversed or not.

Earth continuity to ground is pre-eminent, reverse polarity or not.

etc.

 

Body between chassis and ground - again earth continuity is pre-eminent, reverse polarity or not.

 

Precautions should always be taken but having a reversed polarity is not as critical as no earth continuity.

 

But that was not the origianl question.

 

Safety is always pre-eminent I agree.

 

How would you address this situation then when someone asks about "reversed polarity" problems having visited Norway and been unable to get the "reverse polarity" indicator on their system to go out?. With or without the swap over lead installed!

 

The situation there is thus :-

Norway are in a state of flux regarding domestic mains distribution at the moment.

In most places the local sub-station transformer is connected in DELTA configuration providing 230 volts between phases. A house (or a motorhome hookup) would therefore be connected between two phases. This is a fully isolated supply arrangement with no neutral and nothing at the sub-station transformer connected to earth other than the casing of the equipment.

 

 

In some places in Norway they have the transformers connected in STAR configuration. . But unlike the UK the transformer provides 230 volts between phases and about 133 volts between any phase and neutral. The STAR point or NEUTRAL is connected to earth at the transformer. In this instance a house (or a motorhome hookup) would therefore be connected between the two phases to get a 230 volt supply.

 

However Norway are moving towards adopting the same system as us in mainland

Europe and the UK with it being the standard arrangement for new housing and Industry. Star connected sub-station transformers with the star point (Neutral) being connected to earth at the sub station. And each phase providing 230 volts between it and neutral and some 400 volts between phases.

 

My advise was to be sure of your earths and know that your RCD operates correctly. This way even in a situation with no earth boding at the transformer if your earth fault is the first or the second earth fault on the transformer it will still switch you off when things get "hot" when the second fault is applied.

 

 

[sshortcircuit]

Sorry Clive I have not read your post in detail.

 

Original question was for France not Norway

[SID RAT]

I have a question for Clive. My background is low voltage DC switching so while I'm not qualified to enter this debate, I think what you say seems to make sense.

 

Question is what can we do as a matter of course to correct against the unlikely event of an RCD and appliance both failing, with or without a reversal? Unlikely, I know, but these things happen. For example, is an earth spike any good at all or likely to blow the supply cct breakers?