Air Ride

[Guest Le Thou]

Has anyone ever fitted the air Ride system to their vans ?? If so are they easy to do

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

have fitted myself on two occasions on 4X4 trucks. first time took a while because of lack of correct tools second time a little more then half a day. Easier with two jacks.

[Derek Uzzell]

Le Thou:

 

Ease of installation of an 'air-bag' system on a motorhome will depend on the chassis to which it is to be fitted. If a kit is available then DIY-fitting should be straightforward provided that (as JudgeMental suggests) the DIY-er has the necessary workshop equipment: otherwise fitting is probably best left to the professionals. Most installations will require removal of original parts (eg. bump-stops). This may involve merely unbolting the parts, or angle-grinder minor surgery may be needed.

 

Several companies market suspension air-assistance systems:

 

www.airide.co.uk

 

www.as-airsuspension.co.uk/alko.htm

 

www.driveriteltd.com (advert in MMM)

 

[Guest Tracker]

I don't suppose anyone has any experience of the relative effectiveness and merits or demerits of each of the three systems commonly available do they?

[Derek Uzzell]

If a motorhome has an AlKo chassis, then I think the only suitable system would be the AlKo version. Otherwise I doubt that there are overriding technical reasons for choosing one over the others, though relative price and ease of installation could vary. It would also be important to obtain expert advice as to which 'strength' of air-bag would be best.

 

I'd be tempted to contact potential suppliers and ask what makes their product better than their competitors'.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2007-12-13 10:13 AM If a motorhome has an AlKo chassis, then I think the only suitable system would be the AlKo version. Otherwise I doubt that there are overriding technical reasons for choosing one over the others, though relative price and ease of installation could vary. It would also be important to obtain expert advice as to which 'strength' of air-bag would be best. I'd be tempted to contact potential suppliers and ask what makes their product better than their competitors'.

Derek

From my recent searches, the underlying product in the case of both DriveRite and Air Ride is made by Firestone.  Looking at the AlKo variant, it appears this, also, is by Firestone.  That is to say all the components appear to be, or are actually stated to be, manufactured by Firestone, and the kits appear identical, and so of the same quality, whichever source is selected.

[bob b]

I searched through previous posts on the forum, to try and determine if I can eliminate the "bone shaking" ride by fitting the airride system.

 

The stabilty aspect is covered quite well, but I haven't seen any posts that say the ride is more comfortable.

 

Fortunately, I have my own teeth, but I can forsee habitually searching for my lost dentures in future years !

[Derek Uzzell]

bob b:

 

A "bone shaking" ride on a motorhome is quite often the result of using high tyre-pressures on a relatively light and/or lightly loaded vehicle.

 

On a motorhome without an Alko chassis, 'air-assistance' involves placing air-bellows units between the vehicle's rear leaf springs and the chassis' underside. The only way a rough ride quality might be improved is if it is due to the motorhome being loaded to the point where the original bump-stops (replaced by the bellows units) on the chassis are regularly contacting the leaf springs. If that hasn't been happening, then installing air-assistance (which essentially adds secondary springs) will make an already hard ride even worse.

[livewire]

I have it fitted.

 

I haven't noticed the ride to be any harder, but handling and stability are vastly improved.

 

It took me a morning to fit with no specialist tools or facilites necessary.

 

I would recommend it.

[Guest Le Thou]

Thanks for your comments one and all, where did you buy it from Livewire??

[Mel B]

We got them fitted at the York show by Air Ride themselves, as we have a twin rear wheel drive chassis it wasn't the standard 'fit out' - the kit is different and takes about 50% longer to fit. As they only charged a relatively small amount for fitting (about £35 I think) and it took quite a time for two of them who knew what they were doing, we were happy to pay them to do it, it also meant we shouldn't have any warranty issues seeing as it has been fitted professionally.

 

We have not travelled extensively since having them fitted but even in the ride back from York show we found it much better, the comfort/ride had improved but the most important thing for us was the lack of sway and wallow on cornering - it was vastly better. Well worth every penny.

[bob b]

That's what I want to hear Mel. Comfort and ride !

 

I shall grab the horn by the bulls and fit it meself forthwith ! (lol)

 

 

 

 

 

PS...will you give me a money back guarantee ?

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

IMO stability and ride improve but not comfort. there is a difference between air suspension and air assist which we are talking about here. if your van has a large/ fully loaded overhang and poor handling they help. air suspension is a completely different ball game.

[bob b]

Whenever I take the lid off my ointment......somebody pop's a fly in it !

 

My motorhome is a 5.5 metre coachbuilt and isn't overloaded. I find that on many roads, the rear axle jolts badly and becomes wearing.

 

I was hoping that air assistance would take the "sting" out of these jolts.

 

The point about the tyre pressures is valid, and I will experiment with various pressures to gauge the effect. I'm currently running with 70 psi in the rear tyres.

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

Bob, what model and make on what chassis have you, it may help get you more informed advice...

[bob b]

I have a 2003 Rapido 709F 2.3 litre on the Fiat Ducato 15 medium wheelbase.

[Derek Uzzell]

Which seems to support my earlier statement...

 

Small low-profile shape motorhome - length 5.56m

 

Shortish wheelbase - 3.20m

 

Lightish weight - 2835kg according to the 2003 Rapido brochure (on road, including driver, full tanks and a gas bottle)

 

High rear tyre pressure

 

...a technical recipe for a bumpy ride.

 

It's logically impossible to alleviate an unduly hard ride if fitting air-assistance merely strengthens a vehicle's already adequately-stiff rear springs. Mel B's Transit-based Rimor is a large, long RWD motorhome with considerable rear overhang. Transits tend to have softish suspension to begin with (and a softish ride as a result) and, when fitted with this size and type of coachbuilt bodywork, may well exhibit a tendency to sway and wallow unpleasantly during cornering. Installing air-bellows units should, as Mel confirms, help to suppress this wayward behaviour. In a Transit-based motorhome's case comfort and ride may also be improved, but this will be because the air-bellows units have stiffened original rear springs that were inadequately strong to support the load being placed on them, while also extending the available rear-suspension movement. On a lightly loaded Rapido 709F there will (should!) always be a significant air-gap between the rear springs and the chassis bump-stops above them. Installing air-bellows will replace the air-gap with a rubber-bag 'spring' and, even if the bellows were left uninflated, would still increase the overall strength of the rear springs. A substantial chunk of rubber and metal will, inevitably, be stronger than an air-space.

 

bob b:

 

Unnecessarily high tyre pressures are the most likely culprit for a small motorhome's hard ride, but not the only suspect - for example, your Rapido's rear shock absorbers could be duff. (There's even a report on another forum of an early Transit-based Hobby being Ford-factory-fitted with incorrect length dampers that caused the suspension to go 'solid' whenever a large bump in the road was encountered.)

 

As you've posted over 100 times on this forum, you will no doubt have read advice on weighing your motorhome and then seeking advice from the tyre manufacturer (probably Michelin if your tyres are still the originals) before playing around with tyre pressures. It's likely that you can safely reduce your Rapido's front and rear inflation pressures a fair amount to produce a more comfortable ride, but it's not a great idea to do this by educated guesswork if reliable working-data are readily available.

 

(Mel B owned a 709F prior to her current Rimor, so she may be able to comment on the ride quality of that vehicle and what tyre pressures were used.)

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

I would agree and say tyre pressure and shock absorbers need looking at first.

[livewire]

Le Thou - 2007-12-13 8:56 PM

 

Thanks for your comments one and all, where did you buy it from Livewire??

 

Marcle Leisure £299 for the complete kit.

 

http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/air-suspensions-c-58.html?osCsid=d08b8ff435289887fe3da1d2f105e684

 

I wouldn't bother with in cab guages and automatic pumps. Just kep it simple. Two car tyre valves adjust the pressure, it just needs checking once before each trip. I have fixed mine under the gas locker so they are easy to locate.

[Mel B]

This is a previous thread on the subject that might give a bit of info:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9716&posts=14

 

We did indeed have a Rapido 709F 2.3JTD of 2003 vintage until February this year, they are short little cutie-pies (and I still LOVE it!!! and I miss it!!! . :'( but it just wasn't practical for us anymore. ), but they are quite heavy for a little van as well. We owned it from new and found the ride a bit 'hard' at times, however, it did loosen up quite a bit by the time we sold it, with around 22,000 miles on if memory serves me right. We found in the last year of ownership that it had got a bit more springy in it's rear end and we noticed the sidewards sway a bit more when going round corners, roundabouts etc - it wasn't the pert little bottom it had been originally! :D

 

We never considered putting Air-Ride suspension or anything else on it though because other that the above it was still a comfy van and drove very well (the proverbial sh*t of a shovel!) and we knew we would be changing it so it wasn't worth the expense. If, however, we had been intending to keep it we might have looked into it.

 

Having had it put on our Rimor (huge bottom!) after only 7 months of owning it, we have found it has been very beneficial. It has given us an extra 3 inch lift at the rear (stop giggling!) and levels the van nicely, makes the ride much better and it has indeed improved the comfort. We are still experimenting with the system to get the optimum for us but so far it has been a very worthwhile purchase. Everyone we spoke to beforehand, both on the forum and in person, who had had it fitted commented on how much it had improved their van's ride. For some it had made such a difference that they had previously thought of getting rid of their van but decided to give it a go and hadn't regretted it. One chap in particular had had it on his van and whilst travelling at speed had had a puncture in a rear tyre, he only noticed a slight jerky, nothing major and eventually was flagged down by a passing motorist. Had he not had the suspension on he is sure he would've had a nasty accident.

 

For what it's worth the pros of fitting air-ride suspension on your van would, I suggest, improve it by:

a) levelling the van out thus putting more pressure back onto the front and giving better contact to the drive wheels;

b) providing a more comforatble ride, depending ultimately on how you set the system up for your requirements;

c) stopping the 'bumping' problem you appear to have;

d) making the driving characteristics much better with less sway when cornering and also less side to side movement when windy or being passed by large vehicles.

 

For the cons I would see these as being:

 

a) you need to add the weight of the system to your rear axle weight, you do take off the existing bump stops so the overall change in weight might not be that much;

b) the cost.

 

If you have the opportunity to try a 'van that has got a similar type of suspension aid on it have a go and see what difference it makes, I don't think you'll be disappointed at all, well worth every penny.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

bob b - 2007-12-13 10:54 PM Whenever I take the lid off my ointment......somebody pop's a fly in it ! My motorhome is a 5.5 metre coachbuilt and isn't overloaded. I find that on many roads, the rear axle jolts badly and becomes wearing. I was hoping that air assistance would take the "sting" out of these jolts. The point about the tyre pressures is valid, and I will experiment with various pressures to gauge the effect. I'm currently running with 70 psi in the rear tyres.

Bob

before you add anything do as Derek suggests, load the van fully, take it to a weighbridge, get the weights on each axle individually, e-mail Michelin (or whoever's tyres are on the vehicle) with exact details of the tyres fitted and the weighbridge results, and ask for their recommended tyre pressures for those loads, plus the correct pressures the actual plated maximum permissible loads for each axle.

You should not reduce the tyre pressures below the former, and should find that even the latter are quite a lot lower than the pressures you are currently using.

Then take the van for a drive around and see how it feels.  I suspect the result will be agreeable. 

Adding air assisters, which in effect are just additional air springs alongside the existing steel cart springs, cannot be expected to soften a hard ride.  At best they may be neutral, otherwise they can only make the ride harder.  Similarly, they do not replace the shock absorbers so, if those are the cause of your problem, that cause will remain.

Do the tyres first, and then see how things go.  Far cheaper, and quite likely to work!

[bob b]

Many thanks for the responses. I'll research tyres pressures first then.

 

As the motorhome handles extremely well, that aspect is not a concern. It's just the ride I'd like to improve. I really don't experience any problems on cornering or when being overtaken by lorries, etc.

 

Tyre pressures have been discussed in the past on the forum I know, so I'll start there.

[bob b]

Thanks Brian....your post came up as I was typing.

 

There's a weighbridge not far from me. I'll do as you suggest after xmas & share the results on the forum.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I Think I may of confused some in my earlier "air ride" posts. no specialist tools reguired...

 

what I should have said was, I have mainly DIY & electrical tools and other then a socket set no mechanical tools. the essential bit of kit I had for second time I fitted "air" was a small ratchet spanner - as kit for L200 has really long studs and self tightening screws which were difficult to access and a knuckle damaging experience without the correct ratchet....

 

2 jacks or 1 jack and axle stand will do. as you have to compress the bracket that holds leafs together to release bump stop.( with L200 kit anyway) alternatively you can cut it away as well. but once air fitted wheel cannot be left to hang free as it stretches and potentially damages air bag...

 

so you need to remind mechanics working on van with "air" not to lift rear without supporting wheel's

 

regards Eddie

 

 

[barrie w]

i fitted airide to my first talbot express van, took a little time but maybe a couple of hours at first attempt.

on our second van (boxer based) i obtained a mounting kit from airde & found the fitting very easy,perhaps an hour.

 

the boxer base was very harsh on suspension but i found that the chassis was resting on very hard bump stops in its unloaded state. these bump stops come off when fitting the airide so this on its own reduces harshness considerably.

 

well worth fitting.