Caroline Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Having now been to our first show, we noticed that the vans do not have Gas Fires (Truma) but instead have a system of Blow Air Heat, now we have had reports that his is good, but what concerns me is the impact it has on the battery, will a solar panel compensate or is a Jenny required, we do tend to spend most of our time with out hook up. We kept asking the question but none were very sure of the answer. Can any one help with personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 The gas fired blown air heating does require a 12v fan on all the time it is in use although it is a low current fan and uses a lot less power (and is less noisy) than the diesel fired blown air heating which requires a big power surge to ignite the heater and then less power to run the blower. A lot of folk, including us, have had problems with diesel heating failing to ignite due to low battery voltage when not on mains and the only cure is to run the engine for a while to put a bit back in the leisure battery. This does little for your popularity, both with the neighbours and with the wife, if it happens at 3 am! After a few failures the diesel system then locks you out and has to be reset by a service agent - very inconvenient and not cheap either! With a convector heater with or without blown air you only need enough power to ignite the spark ignition and many of these are powered by a couple of AA batteries. Always carry spare batteries - but as long as you have gas you have heat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 Not quite sure if I understood you correctly, I am not sure where the diesel bit comes from. The fire I am talking about is just the normal Trauma Gas Fire in the van, visible with a front and knobs, this does have a blow air system attached. The new vans seem to have the visible fire bit taken away and just have blow air heating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I just threw the diesel bit in to give a perspective on the three mains types of heating - gas convector with/without blower, gas blown air and diesel blown air. Our preference will always be for the convector with blown hot air. Just to confuse you even more, the diesel option conserves gas which may be important when abroad unless you have a refillable gas bottle. Issues that seem unrelated at first become intermingled when individual needs and preferences are taken into account so not intending to confuse I was trying to give a more full perspective on the whole heating issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Caroline, I think what your after is this, Yes some Modern Motorhomes do have a Blown air system ,if it doesnt have a visible fire it should then come via a Truma Boiler type heating system, there are different models of Boiler ,some just heat the water some heat the water and also supply blown air heating for circulation around the M/H from the same boiler . what the Amp/Hour rate is you would have to consult your owners Manual or I,m sure Dave Newell would put you right then as to what size of solar panel you would need to charge the battery sufficiently to operate the 12volt Blown air fan. That is if there is a solar panel big enough to maintain the ampage required, as I say Dave Newell will let you know best, otherwise keep watching as they are a REALLY helpful People on this forum, hope this is of help Corky :-) http://www.davenewell.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Caroline. We have a van with just blown air. We have 3 leisure batteries (110amp) Solar panel 85w (not very efficient at the time of year when you need heating) Camos dome, 15" Flat tv plus all the usual lights and fridge. We have camped frequently for 4 days (in one location), no hook up and had the heating on 24/7 + fridge 24/7 + tv/lights for 6 hours + per day without suffering ANY power problems. Then fan usage is minimal. (BTW our van is fairly large Chieftain at 28') so not just heating a small space and internal temp is kept at around 22 daytime and 18 ish at night. Uses a fair bit of gas though, about 5/6 kilo a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 mine has truma 6002 EH. so it works on gas and electric when on 230v. I would guess that with twin batteries you would last at least 3 days? (in winter) I have not bothered with solar because we always head for sites and stop at aires while touring through. , so always more or less on the move. now if you intend to stay off the beaten track for more then a few days (in winter that is) and are retired on long trips... solar or a cheap generator probably worth while. remember you have a large generator already the vehicle engine - which can be run to revive batteries in an emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Not all modern motorhomes have blown air heating. Some actually have radiators which are heated by a "wet" system. These are a lot quieter and generate less noise or dust - but they do have a circulating pump and solenoids which requires small amounts of battery amps. So you need to ask some specific questions requiring answers in specifig figures of amps. If you are on a hookup then there are great incentives to use a simple 1KW blown air fan heater and forget about your integrated space heating system. If you are not on a hookup then you need to think carefully. How many days do you wish to be "independant". If you can do this by simply doubling up on your leisure battery capacity then this will be by far the most economical method. If however you wish to remain independant for long periods limited only by your gas capacity then other factors come into the equasion. You will be using your space heater mostly in the winter or when it is cold. This is normally the same time when the output of solar panels are at their lowest. If winter use is what you have in mind then perhaps you should consider either a noisy generator or a quiet but more expensive Fuel Cell. These are just starting to roll out in the UK although thay have already done so in most of continental Europe. An appropriate fuel cell from EFOY capable of supporting the requirements of your heating system and evening lights will set you back about £1500 but will fully recharge a 75 ampere hour battery every day if required. Larger ones cost more money. EFOY ones run on Methanol. Larger fuel cells are now available which run on LPG but their price would by a good SH motorhome outright! If however you are mainly a summer user then solar panels will be more appropriate, especially if you venture towards the Med. Several up market continental motorhome manufacturers now offer as a standard option a combination of solar panel and fuel cell together with an intelligent controller that maximises the output of the solar panel first. Lots of choices and oodles of questions for you to ask before you part with your cash! Diesel powered heaters (as they have already been mentioned) can mean that you don,t need to carry gas if you also have a diesel cooker. They consume lots of battery amps on start up but work well for one or perhaps 2 nights on a standard leisure battery. More if you have lots of battery!. They require little space - their principal advantage. They can be very noisy, especially outside the MH. But those who move about a lot (Don Madge for example) love them. There is still a lot to be said for the old Truma or Carver convector heaters. Quiet and zero amps. Good luck Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 When we were making a list of the things that we wanted in the motorhome we were going to buy, near the top of the list was a gas fire. (we were ex-caravanners so were used to these.) We now have a Truma convector gas fire as well as blown air heating throughout the van and performs excellently. We leave the gas fire on a low thermostat setting during the night in the winter and it has never failed us yet to keep us nice and warm. We could leave the blownair heating on but I think it would be noisy, we also have a solar panel that was already fitted when we bought the van. I must admit that when and if we decide to change the van then I think we will probably try to get the same system or something akin. With living in France it is very rare that we need to go onto a site with hook-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Clive - 2008-01-14 3:23 PM . An appropriate fuel cell from EFOY capable of supporting the requirements of your heating system and evening lights will set you back about £1500 but will fully recharge a 75 ampere hour battery every day if required. Larger ones cost more money. EFOY ones run on Methanol. Larger fuel cells are now available which run on LPG but their price would by a good SH motorhome outright! ============ Clive my luvver, 1500 smakaroos will buy me an alice about 500 electric hook-ups. as us only buys hook up when absolutely necessary (winter like) then that amount of dosh will last us about twenty yers use. now us don really know, but if trumer or carver make coffin heaters could you ask em to send us a brochure. ritesaidfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Fred puts the WILD into wild camping! Its loads of dosh Fred but not much different to the cost of solar panels that would put in the same number of ampere hours in a 24 hour period. The panels would need to be chucking out some 10 amps or more during sunlight to be equivalent to a Fuel Cell producing say 3 amps all day and all night. Say 250 watts worth of solar panels. Then again you could pump up the primus for a cook in and then adjust the drip feed onto the carbide for the acetelene headlights before you set off traveling for the night. Or Light the old camp fire, tether the pony near the fresh grass for the night and play on the old harmonica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Caroline: Traditional 'caravan style' heating - with a Truma convector fire and separate water boiler - is still commonplace in motorhomes. Because it comprises simplicity with flexibility (particularly when a blown-air option is added to the fire and a 230V option to fire and boiler), it could perhaps be described as the Thinking Motorcaravanner's Choice of heating equipment. Unfortunately, there are downsides to the fire + boiler concept as there is no motorhome-suitable fire with an output above 3400W, while discrete air- and water-heating appliances make installation more complex and tend to inhibit interior layout design. Dispensing with the fire + separate boiler in favour of a combination air/water heater like Truma's C-Series (or, more recently "Combi") appliance facilitates installation and layout design. It also permits a heater of up to 6000W output to be fitted able to distribute lots of hot air rapidly throughout a large motorhome - something that a fire (even with blown-air attachment) just can't do satisfactorily. Your basic requirements will cause you to focus on larger motorhomes, so it's unsurprising that you won't have found any with a convector fire. As has already been said, a 'pure' blown-air heater (like Truma's C-Series or Combi) needs to have its fan running whenever air-heating is required. 12V power consumption directly relates to fan speed and a 6kW C-Series appliance will (according to Truma's data) demand 5.6A at maximum heat output, reducing to 0.2A at 'tick over'. In very cold weather, if your motorhome were off hook-up, you would need large capacity leisure batteries to tolerate this level of consumption for extended periods. As very cold weather normally means Winter and little sun, solar panels are unlikely to be able to match the heater's electrical requirements, though any electrical input is bound to be helpful. Generators are an invention of Satan as far as I'm concerned. Personally, if I intended to full time (or all-season long-term) in a European-built motorhome, I'd be looking for one with an Alde 'wet' central-heating system. This has many advantages over a blown-air arrangement - it's powerful, quiet, easier on batteries (1A maximum), can exploit engine-heat when driving, and produces a pleasanter air atmosphere within the vehicle. However, an Alde system needs particular care to be taken at the installation design-stage and, because furniture and the like needs to differ from that used with a much simpler blown-air system (to allow Alde radiators and pipework to be fitted and for air to circulate effectively), there will inevitably be a cost penalty. For example, Hymer's 2007 UK price list indicated that an Alde system (with motor heat-exchanger) on a B-Class motorhome added an additional £1846 to the price. Nevertheless, it's the one to have if you can afford it. (After all, would you be happy to live with a domestic central heating system that blasted hot air around your house at unpredictable intervals while making a noise like a jet plane taking off?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 What about catalytic heaters , does anybody use them as there is no 12volt power involved only gas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Must agree with Derrek, my last camper had ALDE wet water central heating and we much preferred it. It will defiantly be specified on my retirement van, as I don't like truma blown heating that much..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Out next aspiration has a wet system with heat exchanger and solar and fuel cell. Anybody wanna but a building plot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Mickt: Catalytic heaters are cheap and simple to install, and I believe CAK may still market a couple of models. Downsides are their relative lack of output, inability to provide blown air and, because there's (essentially) an open flame burning within the leisure-vehicle's living area, they increase the air's moisture content leading to lots of condensation. There is also a CO² safety issue (as these heaters deplete oxygen in the air), though the CAK-sold appliances have a sensor to guard against this. I expect there are plenty of motorcaravanners still use them (most probably in older motorhomes), but it's been many years since motorhome manufacturers will have installed them in their products. (I was once in contact with a Herald Templar owner whose Atwood Confort 3 combination-heater was playing up in blown-air mode. He decided to retain the Atwood appliance as a water boiler and install a Carver gas convector 'fire' for air heating. Having purchased a 2nd-hand fire, he realised that the only rational place it could be positioned in the Herald would cause the heater's air intake to foul a below-floor chassis member. Last I heard, the convector fire was being advertised for sale and a catalytic heater was to be installed instead. So, if all else fails, this type of heater may be one's only hope.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Chief - 2008-01-14 12:14 PM Uses a fair bit of gas though, about 5/6 kilo a day.could you tell me what the cost of this is as gas, like everything else, is expensive in the uk (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Many thanks Derek , CAK still have them in there brochure, it may be the way to go as i very rarely go on hook up and have to rely on 12volt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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