Guest Patrick Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 My wife and I were indulging in one of our favourite hobbies, which is browsing around Motorcaravan sales areas ready for when we buy one next year. We were rather taken with the Euromobile Sport LS with its mas of storage space owing to the fact that it has a double floor. Other storage has also been well planned. When we checked payload we discovered that it was only 350kg - which means that most of the storage space is unusable. On top of that it has a 150 litres fresh water tank, which I calculate will take up about half the pay load, plus my wife and myself, and we haven't the capacity for carrying enough clothes never mind accessories. Looking at other models we then discovered that the big Bessacar E745 only has 394kg & the Autotrail Cheyenne 630LB - 4 birth - only has 435kg. Doesn't that mean that the balance is all wrong. It is a little bit like the British models which still insist on being 4 birth with only 2 legitimate seats - despite forthcoming legislation. Autotrail even changed on of their trackers from dinette style with seat belts into side seats. Does anybody else see the problems? Comments welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RonB Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 Patrick The quoted payload figure of 350kg is in addition to the driver,90% of fuel,water and gas, tools, spare wheel and electric cable (or should be). Having said that, quoted payloads should be taken with a pinch of salt, as they are often unobtainable in practice without overloading one or other of the axles. The only sure way to deal with payload is to visit a weighbridge and weigh the individual axles to find out exactly where you can add weight. You also need to bear in mind the leverage placed on both axles when loading up you rear overhang. Beware - payload is not an easy subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 It seems that most converters turn a blind eye to payload knowing that it most cases the 3500 KG rating is one to satisfy our legislation, most base vehicles have several hundred KG more capacity than this if you ask the right people. But of course if they are plated over 3500 Kg up to the maximum the chassis is capable of then different license rules apply in the UK limiting the potential sales audience. Its a bit of a minefield really. Mel Eastburn did a couple of articles in MMM which are worth reading on this subject. On the other hand I know someone who had a Sprinter based motorhome that was run for 7 years half a tonne over, that is until it was put on a weigh bridge. Aparently it handled, went and cornered absolutely fine! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patrick Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Thank you to you both. However, I am confused by RonB's statement. I was under the impression that driver, water, etc. were all included in the payload figure. I am sure I have seen warnings in MMM about having full fresh water tanks because they use up too much of the payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeteC Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Not all the figures include the water or Some vehicle specs cover the driver and 1/2 tank of fuel an 18 kg gas bottle is actualy 18kg of gas + the bottle weight (in the case of the 4.5kg this is about another 7kg (about 1.5 times the weight of gas) We chose a van conversion partly because we had driven 140,000 miles in a smaller model in ten years and secodly because it came out at 3500kg so that I now dont need to have a medical to keep the HGV license Thirdly I dislike haveing the brake lever on the right hand - much preferit in the center of the van as I have had it for the last 50 years We have a Renault master converted by Devon Conversions It has 1100 kg pay load. 100 ltr fuel tank, 80 ltr fresh water does 34+ miles per gallon at motorway speeds is 5.99m long & 2.2 m wide 2.8m high including roof rack & top box OH and beware of putting more load in than the plated weight - in spite of the fact that they are under plated tp keepwithin the 3500kg rule If you are stopped and found to be overloaded (according to the plate) you can be fined, on the spot in many countries Made to unload stopped from going any further until unloaded Have the vehicle confiscated in some countries Given points (up to 12 depending on the amount of overload 25% overload can result in disqualification) And dont think you wont be stopped It happens more often than you think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RonB Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I think that you have misread what I said Patrick. Payload is the weight left AFTER the conversion and AFTER the driver,water,etc, have been allowed for. I was quoting from EU regulations 92/21 and EN1646-2 as the standard for computing payload in my answer. Hence my comment in brackets. If a manufacturer avoids complying with this then it's wise to wonder why. Obviously,nobody would run with full tanks if it can be avoided and any weight like this that can be offloaded will increase your allowance for other items. Don't throw out the driver though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Thank you to you all. My wife really fancies the Euromobile but I had grave doubts about the payload. It was the fabrics she liked. Perhaps she might get her way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeteC Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I have not missread you post (was it ron) A previous article in MMM lamented on the lack of uniformity of manufacturers to use the same benchmarks when quoting payloads Some do include the weight of Ful or 1/2 full tanks. Others quote pay load with EMPTY tanks Similarly with fuel tanks and gas cylinders. Many dont allow for the weight of gas cylinders at all Also most only allow for the weight of the driver NO PASSEGER is included My choice of MH was based on a vehicle that i know and a manufacturer whos sales and maintenance teams i know to be trustworthy after some years (140,000 miles in the same van) It is these items that cause people to pass on information to only TRAVEL with EMPTY TANKS We have the pay load to be able to carry full water, Fuel tanks and gass cylinders Plus food for several days and medicines for 4 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RonB Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 PeteC I certainly did not say that YOU had misread my post. However, now you most obviously have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nigelt Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Hi This is an issue that has always concerned me. If a designer and manufacturer of motorhomes sells a 6 berth 'van, surely the implication is that 6 people can travel legally in the vehicle, and given that they have facilities for storage of food, clothing and bedding, is it not reasonable that they should take these things with them? Also, why should a vehicle designed as a mobile home for touring, be restricted to use on the road only with empty water tanks? It cannot be self sufficient as intended. If we pay £50k for such a vehicle, and we cannot LEGALLY use it in a reasonable way for the purpose it is intended, the vehicle is not fit for its purpose - surely the manufacturer is comitting an offence of selling an illegal product? What are you views on this? Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Thank you Nigelt for your comments. We are wading through the 100 Top Motorhomes book at the moment and have noticed that in quite a few cases large vehicles, which may or may not be advertised as having plenty of storage space have only limited pay-load. Laika Kreos 3009. Space under bed. 7.12 meteres long. 357kg payload. Burstner Star 695 with garage, 7.16 meteres long. 370kg payload. Swift Kontiki 600. 6.64 metres. 265kg. When I then read that it has 125 litres fresh water - I wonder what is included and what is left. etc. etc. I agree with you. It seems daft to advertise vehicles taking 4-6 people - and then have only a small payload. Like advertising 4 berths & only 2 seats. The problem is one does not discover whether the payload is sufficnet for your needs until after you have bight the van and had it weighed. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nigelt Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hi I don't understand how the industry can get away with this. Six average people weigh over 400kg - so when everyone gets on, some six berth 'vans are already illegally over loaded. Dealers may mention payload in passing, if they are forced too, but facts and figures were not mentioned to us when we bought our 'van. I have always been concious of the issue, but as we have 510kg payload and there are only 4 of us, I have never weighed the,'van and have never been challenged. That is not to say that when we have packed up to go to France for two weeks, for example, that I would have bet my salary we weren't overloaded! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patrick Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Greetings Nigel. That is the most profound comment yet. Perhaps every motorhome with a low payload ought to come with a diet sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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