Major Fiat/Peueot/Citroen problems

[Clive]

Have you seen the post by Libby?

 

[RoyH]

Give us a clue Clive Where is it (The post by Libby)

[michele]

Roy H and others its called VW & Merc owners

[RoyH]

Thanks M. Seems a good idea of Libby's

[AndyStothert]

Greetings everyone, whether you've tried reversing your new model Ducato or Boxer up a steep hill or not.

 

It's probably time for a quick update as to what we've achieved so far and where all this is going.

I've had nearly sixty replies from owners of Fiat or Peugoet based motorhomes who are unhappy with the juddering in reverse gear whilst attempting to reverse up an incline.

Several, after hearing Fiat's 'characteristic' fob off have decided to quietly get rid before all this becomes common knowledge. It has cost them a great deal of money in some cases, but good luck to them.

That leaves, at this moment, 41 of us who want some sort of meaningful response from Fiat.

The media campaign we've embarked upon will hopefully raise the profile of this defect, and if we all keep it up long enough, affect sales figures of Fiat and Peugeot based motorhomes. When (if?) that happens then the major manufacturers may well put pressure on Fiat to find a solution.

This isn't really the way that I'd hoped this would be resolved, but Fiat and Peugoet are such big powerful companies that there seems to be no way of influencing them directly.

In addition to blitzing the motorhome press about this, and the two big clubs, we intend to give this matter an airing on television if possible, and also take some more direct action at certain shows and exhibitions if Fiat (and Peugeot) don't take steps to resolve our complaints.

 

If we do have something going against us it is that of convincing other motorhomers that the slight juddering in the transmission in normal use can, in certain circumstances (a steep hill), become a serious risk to the long term health of their motorhome. So in some ways I think the real impediment to our chances of getting this matter resolved is the apathy within our ranks.

But such is life.

 

If it judders email me -andystothert@blueyonder.co.uk

[sooty10]

I am sure many people after reading about the reversing trouble will postpone buying a new motorhome. Ourselves included, we were in the market for a new Auto Trail and have booked the Peterborough show to do just this. I will however be telling the dealers why we are NOT buying 'till this has been sorted. Just hope if others did the same it may make the dealers think.

 

Good luck with your campaign.

 

Sooty 10.

[Den]

autotrail on a merc. its a nice combination we had the 696g .faultless only sold because we coud'nt sleep in the bed claustophobic .but the only van we had that was faultless.

[libby]

Quote from Andy

 

"If we do have something going against us it is that of convincing other motorhomers that the slight juddering in the transmission in normal use can, in certain circumstances (a steep hill), become a serious risk to the long term health of their motorhome. So in some ways I think the real impediment to our chances of getting this matter resolved is the apathy within our ranks."

 

(Yes Andy I even got ribbed for supporting you! LB)

 

[michele]

Libby ,

you take no notice I think the more support that Andy or anyone gets the better . There for the grace of god go I . It could of been anyone of us I will lend support if possible and I to will certainly be telling anyone who will listen at every available opportunity I get .

 

keep up the good work I was just thinking of having a word with a friend to see if Tommy walsh or Ray Winstone would take it up .

Thing is wouldthe BBC take it up ? I dont know but I could try .

 

 

 

[Clive]

Autotrail on a Merc,

I agree, faultless and a joy to drive. Our Scout Lowline has just past its 10 year mark and cranked up an amazing 40,000 miles. Just about run in!.

Its had more paint/waxoil on the underside than the top!

If anybody fancies her later this year if we agree to a deal on the next MH then please PM me.

C.

 

 

[AndyStothert]

Tonight's not so thrilling instalment in the Defective Ducatos and Boxers saga concerns the new and really quite imaginative ways Fiat are finding to fob-off their dissatisfied customers who have sunk fifty grand plus on a new vehicle.

 

I've had an email today from one disgruntled motorhomer who bought a new Auto Trail Arapaho last year with the 2.3 litre engine and 6 speed box on a 4 ton chassis.

Like all the others it judders like mad on even a not-so-steep gradient and when he complained to Fiat they told him it was the weight of the motorhome which made them do this, and nothing else.

But then he saw the letter in this month's MMM from me, whose motorhome weighs less than 2500kg and he got to wondering if perhaps Fiat had been a little economical with the truth.............

As if?

 

Also, Fiat seem to have changed their tactics in recording complaints of this nature. They have now adopted the Peugeot 'model' and are refusing to accept complaints over the phone about reversing up hills. They now insist that the vehice is booked in a local dealer where they WILL tell you that there is nothing wrong with it, and that's the end of the matter - So no complaint recorded.

This is all getting rather sordid on Fiat's part. What have they got to hide?

[Clive]

Its their ASSETS they are hiding Andy, they don,t want you or any other Fiat owner having any part of them.

C.

[AndyStothert]

Today's Fiat victim is Bob Harper, from Glasgow who bought a new Hymer B540SL last year. He too is seriously concerned about the juddering whilst attempting any kind of uphill reversing, and Fiat refused to register an official complaint until the vehicelhad been examined by a Fiat dealer.

Well, today it went into Reg Vardy in Glasgow and the service manager road tested it. Bob tells me that the manager was that concerned about the juddering that they have booked it in (April 2nd) to inspect the clutch, gearbox, and engine mountings.

It will be very interesting to see how Fiat deal with this, what they tell the garage, and what Vardy's have to say to Bob when he collects the van.

 

I'm struggling to get a foothold in Peugeot's very secure door so if one of the Peugeot owners would like to become more fully involved just email me. I can't even get any sense out of the Peugeot PR people.

 

REVERSE THAT LATE MODEL DUCATO OR BOXER UP A STEEP HILL NOW.

If you don't think the juddering is a sound engineering 'characteristic' of the vehicle (Fiat's description of it) then email me

 

andystothert@bluyonder.co.uk

 

[Guest peter]

This is very worrying for the unfortunate folks that own these engineering disasters, as it is going to absolutely murder resale values. I for one, wouldn't touch one with a bargeploe.

[Rayjsj]

Whenever a product (Sevel X/250) gets a virtual monopoly of a market this type of situation is always a possibility.

They are unlikely to 'actually' DO something about it UNTIL they get hit in the order books HARD. As we buy our Motorhomes 3rd hand ( 1st Fiat,2nd Autotrail Etc., 3rd The Dealer. ) this could take a while to happen. Also I suspect (from a Fiat reps. strong denial of any problems at the NEC) that the problem is a fundamental one and is going to be very expensive to resolve. So, this could Run and Run,even longer and nastier than the 5th gear problem on the previous chassis,and which was never truly 'Fixed' until a redesigned gearbox emerged.

WE DESERVE BETTER ! motorhomes are not cheap. I agree with Peter don't touch them with a bargepole, until they come clean and FIX IT >:-(

[trooper]

Hi can someone send a hill to norfolk so I can check mine.

[Gregory]

 

I'm just grateful for the fact these forums exist, so we can freely exchange views and information, also to the man who started the ball rolling so we all know what's going on, if we were relying on any other medium to inform us, we'd be like mushrooms.

 

I still can't believe the number of posts where folks just seem to be burying their head in the sand and worse, still buying them.

 

Cheers,

 

Greg.

 

[fred grant]

only time fred berries is head in the sand me ansums is when alice announces a trip to marks ans spencers.

 

fred digs a hole six foot deep and makes sure its well berried my biddies.

 

finkinfred

[graham]

Only a small impact I know but I was recently in the market for a car and a scooter. I was seriously considering Peugeot versions of both but instead bought a Ford and a Gilera thanks to what is gouing on hetre.

[trooper]

I dont think anyone is sticking thier head in the sand, I cant help if ive had mine over a year and the base vehicle has been almost perfect, or that on what small slopes i have reversed it ,it has been o/k, or that norfolk is flat as someone posted a few days ago. No, I would do anythingI could to help bring these problems to a satisfactory conclusion, but it do'snt help for me to complain about problems I dont personely have (what problems have you had?er,er,well actually none, or actualy I drive another make,)

I think these people who are involved need to contact ,papers local radio, ect to get their voice heard.

I just wish the best to all, as life is too short to have to put up with this hastle.

[parkmoy]

I cant help if ive had mine over a year and the base vehicle has been almost perfect, or that on what small slopes i have reversed it ,it has been o/k, or that norfolk is flat

 

I'm not getting at you here, but doesn't it bother you at all that you may have major problems on bigger hills outside Norfolk? Don't you want to know?

 

What about the fact that a lot of people now wouldn't touch your van secondhand with a barge pole?

 

Whether you like it or not this will affect you one way or another.

[AndyStothert]

I was going to do my nightly rant and ask you all to find a steep hill to reverse your Ducato or Boxer up, but everybody else is doing it for me.

But go and do it anyway.

And if it judders(which it will because Fiat say they all do) and you're not happy about this 'Normal Juddering' (another of Fiat's descriptions, but doesn't mention abnormally wrecking gearboxes and clutches) then email me

andystothert@blueyonder.co.uk

 

[Shaun]

Once again, we have negative assertions as to future sales of Ducatos, etc. It's pure speculation as to what the market will be for any vehicle. Some of these comments are insulting to those who've bought Ducatos and are perfectly happy with them. I have one, I've reversed it up a steep incline and I couldn't get it to judder. I wouldn't swap it for anything else at the same price and I'm confident as one can be with any vehicle, as to its future value.

 

There can be no doubt that there is a judder problem for plenty of people with the Ducato and its stablemates, and there's no doubt that considerable effort is being made by the likes of Andy to have the problem acknowledged and resolved. But, meanwhile, to suggest that the market for motorhomes on this chassis, will decline or already has, because of people avoiding them... well, let's see some hard facts to back up that assertion, not speculation.

 

Shaun

[parkmoy]

But, meanwhile, to suggest that the market for motorhomes on this chassis, will decline or already has, because of people avoiding them... well, let's see some hard facts to back up that assertion, not speculation.

 

Shaun, it's great that your MH isn't affected by the problem but you can't really believe that all this adverse publicity won't affect future values.

 

You ask for hard facts and of course they aren't available, but consider this. I for one was going to change my van at the end of the season and I wanted a Ducato based one because of the good write ups. Now, I've decided to upgrade my van and hang on to it.

 

Would I buy a Sevel based van second hand or new in the future? No way, until this has been sorted and even then I would have a very jaundiced view of Peugot/Fiat's customer service.

 

How many others do you think feel the same?

[michele]

As you all know my husband does not use the forum although he is in the background . I obviously tell him things on here as far as he is concerned we wont be swopping in the near future either until this is sorted .