Exustrek Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Screamin' Eagle - 2008-04-24 12:02 PM I think it has been ascertained that the problem is there on most variations of vehicle's. I have this problem on a new Ducato Van with the 2.3 ltr engine and 6 speed box & also a new Hymer with the 3 ltr engine and 6 speed box. Why only in reverse? Wow!!! A double dose of trouble............ that's got to hurt. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niton Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 We need an independant Engineers Assessment of the Fiat so that we can then go to Fiat with a report which shows what is wrong and what is needed to put it right at their expense. My concern is that in the future when I wanted to trade my 'van in the dealer will ask is it one of those that 'judder' and the value will suffer. MIRA Limited according to their website (www.mira.co.uk) is recognised as a leading independant product engineering testing consultancy & certification organisation. This would be the way to go but how we would go about it is another matter. I feel we need to take a less adversial approach and be more proactive. If we upset the manufactures they will just dig their heels in and we will get nowhere. If we can obtain an independant engineers report and approach them with that they may be more willing to help. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 The previous boxer/ducato had a production life of about 12 years - from about 1993 (I think) to about 2005/6. Assuming that the new van will have a similar lifespan it is not in Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen's own interest to have the vehicle with a bad reputation It took Vauxhall many years and cost GM a fortune to live down the rust issues of the 50's so the more widespread the bad publicity the sooner they are likely to act. Whatever the fix offered, the big question will remain - what about after the three year warranty expires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exustrek Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Peter Without a fix, future value of these vehicles will suffer, unless your conscience will let you sell private to some unsuspecting punter that somehow managed to miss all this bad press. Fiat have already point blank dismissed any idea of an independant engineer's report & will not look at it, many of us have already asked the question & so far this has been their stock response. By all means, give it a go, as pressure mounts, attitudes at Fiat might change, but i won't be holding my breath. Good luck & please keep us informed of how you get on. Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Regarding an independent engineer's report and since this problem seems to be stretching into the commercial vans then if some one of the companies operating these vans are members of the Freight Transport Association (FTA) this trade organisation has this service for its members and could be approached to provide this report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Regarding an independent engineer's report and since this problem seems to be stretching into the commercial vans then if some one of the companies operating these vans are members of the Freight Transport Association (FTA) this trade organisation has this service for its members and could be approached to provide this report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exustrek Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 We recieved a response from the Caravan Club to a letter i wrote about juddering vans, they advise to contact their legal helpline number which is a free service to members. Has anyone else written & had this response & taken them up on the offer? Has anyone used this service before? Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I posted a reply at 9 18pm and it hasn't appeared, what's going on? Here it is again. (More or less) If an independant report is needed and since the problem is in commercial vans as well, then if one of the companies operating these vans is a member of the Freight Transport Association this trade organsation provides this service for its members so they could arrange this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted April 26, 2008 Author Share Posted April 26, 2008 Just been at the Peterborough show wandering around the rally fields and counted nearly 2000 leaflets attached to Fiat Ducatos and Peugeot Boxers. Fiat had a representative dishing out brochures in the new hall, and as we approached the nice man from Fiat offered me a brochure..........'No' says I.....'I insist on you having one of mine' and handed him the Juddering sheet which had been attached to nearly 2000 motorhomes just outside. What did strike me whilst wandering about the show was just how many new motorhomes Auto Trail must be selling. Or do their owners attend the shows more than the rest? The number of judderers is now at 110 but to be honest the number is not tha relevant as the knowledge of the issue is now well and truly 'out there' - which is what this is all about. We're off Tuesday night for several months to places where there won't be any internet (not that I've learnt how to work the wi-fi thing yet anyway) and hopefully this will have been sorted out by the time we get back. If it hasn't we (dissatisfied owners) have some really quite radical ideas to give Fiat and Peugeot a bit of jolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Water Logged ECU's,starter motors, Etc., and shakes it's gearbox to bits when reversing uphill. Yes, roll up,roll up! only £40,000 ! A perfect lay-out isn't much good if it's attached to one of these !! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Hi Andy Just a word of thanks for all your efforts on behalf of X250 owners you've done a grand job lets hope it bears fruit. I am also off on Tuesday to Greece via Venice and the ferry hope you have a great time gearbox permitting. Colin Frier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 Well folks that's it for now - we are clearing off to Europe from Tuesday night until either she asks for divorce or the van breaks? How long do you give us or it? I expect to see this thread still at the top when we get back - especially if the van packs up. Thanks for the help up to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Before you go Andy are you not going to tell us at home what the leaflets said ? Have a nice trip trouble free ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 I forgot to add that I managed to obtain one of these leaflets and wandered over to the main hall where Fiat had a representative handing out glossy brochures to the unsuspecting public. As I approached he held a brochure out for me, so I gave him the Judderers version, and strolled off leaving him looking perplexed. Childish I know, but I enjoyed it. The leaflet said in basic terms that they judder and could easily end up chewing clutches and gearboxes. The advice given sounded vaguely familiar with an exhortation (nowt to do with illegal substances) to go and reverse it up a steep hill then complain to Fiat and every bugger else if it judders. A I said before on behalf of us old judderers (now 109) I'm very grateful for the regulars on this forum (and also lately on MHF) for keeping this matter in the front of everybodys' minds. If I learn (or little Fag Ash tells me) how to use the new laptop whilst we're away I may annoy you all further from some warm sunny luxurious location............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hope you have a great time Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playtime Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Having just bought a brand new Autocruise Starburst 2.2TD 100bhp Peugeot Boxer based motorhome, I'm a little concerned. I do hope I haven't spent out on a 'pig in a poke'. 8-) :-( 8-) :-( 8-) :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Playtime - 2008-04-28 9:17 AM Having just bought a brand new Autocruise Starburst 2.2TD 100bhp Peugeot Boxer based motorhome, I'm a little concerned. I do hope I haven't spent out on a 'pig in a poke'. 8-) :-( 8-) :-( 8-) :-( Does it judder when going backwards up a hill? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkmoy Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mco Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Oops a daisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exustrek Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 No mention of Judder in this month's Caravan Club magazine, i know i'm just one of many to write to them about this issue, wonder if they'll find space in next month's member's letters section? Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 I saw that the CCC has a Swift Bolero on long term test and reported on in the May issue (page 89). So I have written to them to say that I hope that they will include a reversing excercise up a steep hill SOON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thamesist Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Last week, I wrote to VOSA about juddering and possible safety implications. I have received a reply which seems to imply that Fiat/Peugeot don't raelly want to know. Having gone on about their code of practice, I quote: 'However, Fiat are aware of customer complaints, and have issued a Service News Bulletin advising that should juddering occur during take of with engine speed below 1200rpm, it should not be considered as a fault. Even if the vehicle can take off and start without accelerating, it is always advisable to release the clutch gradually whilst maintaining the engine speed above 1300rpm. So there we have it! Rev like hell! Alan S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 My guess of the Fiat problem is that the company have known of this even before going into production. Tonight on TV there was an aircraft crash investigation programme relating to the DC10 and the faulty cargo door locking mechanism, never sorted until many died although design reports made clear the faults from the beginning. I see this as a similar situation where forward production sales were more important than a 'few owner complaints'. Fortunatelly there are not likely to be personal casualties so why would Fiat want to publicly admit to a design fault and accept a slow down in sales? Remember also the design fault and 'quote of the day' after the River Tay Bridge disaster of 28th December 1879, in which 75 railway passengers died. "IT WAS A SAVING OF MONEY" LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Libby I know the juddering is a problem, but "Tay Bridge Disaster, DC 10 aircrash and problems reversing up hill in a motorhome", are not 3 things you see together in a paragraph about man made disasters everyday! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I post the comments and relate to other disasters to remind all that however big the company the user is vunerable, and no one should be under the illusion that they are building things 'just for us' Rather like the modern 'cash back' trend or 'loyalty' purchase's, be aware, it's your money they're after. LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.