elliott Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Many thanks dont feel quite so lost when people are rooting for you,will keep you informed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 From what I recall, the reason being offered for gearbox damage resulting from this phenomenon is that, when the juddering becomes severe, the particular internal layout of the gearbox fitted to these vehicles allows the various 'cogs' to come into contact with each other in a manner that the gearbox's designer never anticipated! (For a non-technical explanation - the wildly vibrating reverse-gear cogs hit the minding-their-own-business forward-gear cogs knocking the **** out of the latter.) As the juddering characteristic is unintentional, the effect of the vibration on a gearbox's component parts and the type and extent of any damage will be unpredictable. In Andy Stothert's case synchromesh on two gears was affected: in elliott's case on just one gear. Damaged synchromesh will never self-repair, so, whether it's one gear or several that have been affected by the juddering, the end result will be the same - an enforced visit to a Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot dealership for attention ASAP. It needs constantly repeating that Andy Stothert's concern over this, right from Square One, is not just that the juddering-while-reversing characteristic is unwelcome and unpleasant, and may result in mechanical damage immediately of in the near future. Andy has always emphasised that mechanical components are inevitably being heavily stressed when the juddering is taking place and that those components may well fail later on when the motorhome is no longer under warranty. It's bad enough if your motorhome needs an expensive major mechanical repair under warranty: much worse if it's outside warranty when the problem rears its ugly head and you have to pick up the bill yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Ok, so another month down the line,(i've been away to the isle of Mull for a month) and It looks like the problem is still ongoing,i got the impression from 'Rupert 123' that a fix had been found ? I hope that Fiat hurries up before somone else's 'pride and joy' suffers a 'Knackered Gearbox' or a 'Flame Grilled' clutch trying to slip at high revs in reverse up a hill. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Rayjsj - 2008-07-17 2:19 PM Ok, so another month down the line,(i've been away to the isle of Mull for a month) and It looks like the problem is still ongoing,i got the impression from 'Rupert 123' that a fix had been found ? I hope that Fiat hurries up before somone else's 'pride and joy' suffers a 'Knackered Gearbox' or a 'Flame Grilled' clutch trying to slip at high revs in reverse up a hill. :-( Sorry if I gave that impression, as far as I am aware the people who had a problem still have it. What I meant was that new vans seem to not have the problem as their are now very few complaints with vans produced this year, mine is fine. The gearbox problem with the gears touching also only applied to six speed box. I was only trying to point out that it would seem no longer to be a reason not to buy a new Fiat based van. Models from 2006/2007 I would still treat with suspicion and subject to a test if I was thinking of buying one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Well I know of a commercial van that was registered couple of weeks ago and judders, also any 08 motorhomes will proboly have 2007 base vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 20, 2008 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 Hi everyone. We have just returned from Croatia where the temperature was 38 degrees and the world was at one with itself. When I started shouting about all this (to anyone who would listen, and even a few who wouldn't) the intention was to put pressure on Fiat and Peugeot to do something about it. Or extend the warranties if it was unfixable. The way to do this was, I thought, to raise public awareness of the fault and thus threaten sales of the vehicle. Whether that will happen won't become apparent until after orders for this year have been fulfilled. The problem hasn't gone away, and public awareness is now quite widespread, but even that may not be enough for Fiat to acknowledge the fault. The reason is that they are still selling it unchanged, unmodified and until the fix is put in place they simply cannot admit to knowingly selling a vehicle which is faulty. This month's MMM will help us sick and weary Fiat and Peugoet owners who have this problem to put pressure on the corporate liars and I reckon Mr Jago has put his neck on the block for us after receiving literally hundreds of complaints. And is Henry (Rupert123) still being a bit of wind-up merchant? He's a nice chap really. Anyway I've no intention of spending so much time on this issue now as I'd decided to give it all I'd got before we went and see how it progressed. Also there are some other more extreme measures which may help, though hopefully the forum will continue to inform potential buyers that there is a major defect on these otherwise excellent vehicles. Incidentally we did over 8000 miles and the van didn't miss a beat. It was comfy quiet and economical, but it still judders like mad in reverse, and we had to adopt a very strict 'don't drive down anything which may need reversing out of' policy. We were also very lucky on a couple of occasions, and generally speaking, mountain roads in foreign parts are two lane highways. In fact I'm really very chilled out right now, but will be speaking to the Fiat man next week as our release bearing is rattling like crazy now. Such is life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthmover Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Andy, According to another forum, A Fiat Garage? in the North East has officially carried out modifications to 3No vehicles, one of which was on a motorhome, whom the purchaser would not go through with the deal, unless the juddering problem was dealt with prior to delivery. He claims that the engine needs to be removed and a modified flywheel fitted, also the bell housing has to changed. 11 hours work. Re - Springfield Service Centre. Washington, NE38 OAQ Tel 01914 183033. or Tyne Valley Motorhomes Tel ?? Please use your good offices Andy and check if it's true. Thanks Em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthmover Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Andy, According to another forum, A Fiat Garage? in the North East has officially carried out modifications to 3No vehicles, one of which was on a motorhome, whom the purchaser would not go through with the deal, unless the juddering problem was dealt with prior to delivery. He claims that the engine needs to be removed and a modified flywheel fitted, also the bell housing has to changed. 11 hours work. Re - Springfield Service Centre. Washington, NE38 OAQ Tel 01914 183033. or Tyne Valley Motorhomes Tel ?? Please use your good offices Andy and check if it's true. Thanks Em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Greetings, I've spoken to Springfield Service Centre, and the good news is that they have cured ONE Fiat, but the bad is that it had a specific fault on the flywheel which isn't present on the others, so unfortunately a 'fix' isn't on the near horizon. Fiat have also confirmed this today. Incidentally, those of you living near Springfields (in the north east) may well have an extremely good dealer in your midst as the boss their is very clued-up on the various problems these vehicles are having, and is a genuinely helpful chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Greetings, I've spoken to Springfield Service Centre, and the good news is that they have cured ONE Fiat, but the bad is that it had a specific fault on the flywheel which isn't present on the others, so unfortunately a 'fix' isn't on the near horizon. Fiat have also confirmed this today. Incidentally, those of you living near Springfields (in the north east) may well have an extremely good dealer in your midst as the boss their is very clued-up on the various problems these vehicles are having, and is a genuinely helpful chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Greetings, I've spoken to Springfield Service Centre, and the good news is that they have cured ONE Fiat, but the bad is that it had a specific fault on the flywheel which isn't present on the others, so unfortunately a 'fix' isn't on the near horizon. Fiat have also confirmed this today. Incidentally, those of you living near Springfields (in the north east) may well have an extremely good dealer in your midst as the boss their is very clued-up on the various problems these vehicles are having, and is a genuinely helpful chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 21, 2008 Author Share Posted July 21, 2008 Greetings, I've spoken to Springfield Service Centre, and the good news is that they have cured ONE Fiat, but the bad is that it had a specific fault on the flywheel which isn't present on the others, so unfortunately a 'fix' isn't on the near horizon. Fiat have also confirmed this today. Incidentally, those of you living near Springfields (in the north east) may well have an extremely good dealer in your midst as the boss their is very clued-up on the various problems these vehicles are having, and is a genuinely helpful chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 As there was several threads on this I'm not sure where I posted a 'warning' that some dealers where claiming a fix for problem, I hope that person got it in writing or else he has to hope he is one of the lucky one's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Andy I'm pleased you've had a good break and are now well chilled! I do hope youre release bearing can be sorted out quickly for you. We had a problem with a release bearing many years ago on our old Transit ambulance and it meant removing the clutch etc to sort it out ... whilst they're at it, do you think that fitting a more heavy duty clutch might help with the judder problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Andy I'm pleased you've had a good break and are now well chilled! I do hope youre release bearing can be sorted out quickly for you. We had a problem with a release bearing many years ago on our old Transit ambulance and it meant removing the clutch etc to sort it out ... whilst they're at it, do you think that fitting a more heavy duty clutch might help with the judder problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Hi Andy I'm pleased you've had a good break and are now well chilled! I do hope youre release bearing can be sorted out quickly for you. We had a problem with a release bearing many years ago on our old Transit ambulance and it meant removing the clutch etc to sort it out ... whilst they're at it, do you think that fitting a more heavy duty clutch might help with the judder problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 22, 2008 Author Share Posted July 22, 2008 Re the doubt/question as to whether the new 08 Fiats are still juddering I've now had chance to look through the emails received since we cleared off and one of them had details of a mug (like the rest of us) who is saddled with a juddering Auto Trail which was new at the end of May. An interesting side issue here is that he told me that Auto Trail informed him that they had never heard of the problem before and that Don Amott's said it was a new one on them too? It is fact that Auto Trail have had dozens of very unhappy owners complaining about this. Personally I can't understand the mentality of folk who are actively telling people to buy one of these vehicles when it is produced by a company with so little in the way of scruples and concern for its customers. It's just inviting trouble for the future, whether it be this problem or another as yet undiscovered one which they won't sort out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Good evening, It seems that forum interest in this subject may have dropped off a little (and who can blame everybody who isn't personally affected for getting a bit jaded with it?) but the numbers of very dissatisfied Ducato and Boxer owners grows daily. It seems that we have now reached a cross raods of a sort, with many disgruntled owners wanting more positive action to force Fiat to find a solution to this problem. So finally, as a last resort - because its complicated, expensive, and may compel us to shut up whilst it happens - legal action is being looked at. There are now at least two hundred angry owners baying for blood, and with Fiat digging in ever deeper, things don't look as though an easy solution will be forthcoming. It seems as though the cost of retrospectively fixing the vans already in existence will be too expensive for the company to stand when a fix is finally put into production models (in January we are all led to believe). It could all have been so different if Fiat and Peugeot (who are now adopting a more conciliatory line with owners) had accepted that a small number of vehicles had a defect and that they would be fixed when possible or the warranties extended. But no, Fiat have acted in a thoroughly dishonest manner and denied everything. Whatever you do in life, do not buy a Fiat. They are just not an honest bunch to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 You won't be seeing this because of the technical issues but it will keep it up there invisibly - hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Hi Andy, glad you got back ok and van ran well, hope you had a good trip and we will see some pictures and reports in the future. I have now done 5000 miles in my new van, five weeks in Europe and various other weeks away. just got back from The Royal Welsh show and am off to Scotland in a week for around a month. Am pleased to report my Fiat has not missed a beat either and sorry, still no judder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffus Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Hi guys and gals, Just joined the forum after hearing about you from other motorhome forums that I frequent. I have been following the story so far, and have already been in touch with Andy to give my support to the ever growing campaign. I am about to take delivery of a new Bessacarr E795 on the !st September. I have been in touch with my dealer and will happily let me test drive it prior to handover. Hopefully it won't be a judderer. Andy came back with a good point they [dealer] haven't said what will happen if I reject it and will I get my deposit back. They have already let me down by saying I could have a passenger airbag fitted when I ordered the vehicle at Easter . . . . it turned up with no airbag and can't be retro fitted, not happy. I will let you know what develops. I may well stop with my present E795 which has given us four trouble free fulltiming years of pure pleasure. All the best, Jeffus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffus Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Hi, This is a test post as I have already posted once but it didn't show. Hopefully this will. I have just joined the forum. 1st Sept I pick up a new Bessacarr E795. I'll let you know how I get on. Jeffus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffus Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Hi, This is a test post as I have already posted once but it didn't show. Hopefully this will. I have just joined the forum. 1st Sept I pick up a new Bessacarr E795. I'll let you know how I get on. Jeffus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffus Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Hi, This is a test post as I have already posted once but it didn't show. Hopefully this will. I have just joined the forum. 1st Sept I pick up a new Bessacarr E795. I'll let you know how I get on. Jeffus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Has anybody had their engine 'chipped' or remapped? An earlier posting suggested that this is a potential cure for some Transits using the same Peugeot sourced engine, with presumably the same transmission, although with what gear ratios I do not know. If it did work on Ducatos, it would be a very cost effective way to solve the problem and it may be worth one the unfortunate 'sufferers' contacting a reputable tuning company to enquire? They might even offer a no cure, no pay, remove and refund policy with the lure of many more customers if it worked? Well, you never know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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