Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Many will by now have noticed Andy Stothert's plea for assistance with the problem he is having with his new (2007 X250 multijet model) Fiat Ducato based motorhome.This manifests with violent juddering from the transmission when attempting to reverse uphill. He is attempting to gather information to present to Fiat, to compel them to recognise this as a problem, something they presently refuse to accept.If you have a motorhome based on any of the above base vehicles - but please note 2007/8 models only - can you please register your experiences in the following poll.If you have one of the above, and have not yet tried reversion uphill, it would be a good idea to try this as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Way2Go Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Hi Brian,I have a 2007 Fiat Ducato which appears to suffer from this problem. In fairness, I don't reverse that often and when I do it is generally on the flat.Having said that, when I reverse up a gradient I do get a judder.W2G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbocj Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 W2G, exactly my experience :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Just to clarify. This problem relates to the new shape 2007/8 model year vans ONLY and NOT to the old style pre 2006 model year vans that may have been registered in 2007/8. There were still plenty of the older style previous model new vans about this time last year, and indeed still a few even now, and this may cause some confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Good idea Brian However I do not wish to respond to the poll as I have the 160 version and based on the info in Andy Stothert's thread, it appears that this version is not effected. My own test up hill reverse was OK. As I have not yet set up a poll, is it posible to ammend the questions to add the engine type so that the version can be clearly identified. At the moment it is likely that only owners with the problem will respond. If it can be shown that some version are 100% ok, whereas others are not, provides much stronger evidence of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 thank you very much for this Brian.this not only affects owners .just think of the prospective new owners that have ordered vans for march ..like me..and those looking to order .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 It is possible, but likely to get confusing, since not all people refer to their engines in the same way, and some don't discriminate all that much. There are three engine variants on each of the three branded Sevel vans, all offering 100, 120 or 160PS outputs. However, so far as I could tell, whereas the 100 PS version is common to Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen, the 120PS and 160PS engines in the Fiat are by Sofim, the 120PS in Peugeot/Citroen versions is the joint PSA/Ford engine and their 160PS is their own development. To cover all variants and cater for those who still think the Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen vans are different beasts, it would have needed 9 van types against which to enter a tick. Then, there is the little matter of whether the judder is a problem, or not, requiring another 9 entry boxes to cover all bases. As it stands, the format is deliberately simple, and I don't think the engine size is so relevant to the problem as the badge on the front of the van. If there are 40 vans recorded: 2 Citroen, 12 Peugeot and 26 Fiat, and 15 have the problem, Andy will know whether or not his van is typical. He has already posted his e-mail address, and he, or anyone else, can post additions to this string or can send PMs to each other. If the responses eventually give an indication of the scale of the problem, we'll know better which make/s to target and then add the detail as to engines etc to narrow down where it arises. In the meantime, I'd say add your to the list as not having the problem. That information is also relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 Will anyone who has responded to the above poll please contact Andy by e-mail or PM, as he would like to contact you to compare notes and experiences, and to log who is having problems so that a joint approach to Fiat (and possible others, who knows?). Interesting that there are no Peugeot problems so far. No-one dared reverse a Pug yet? The drawback with polls seems to be that they remain anonymous, so no respondents can be traced - not what was wanted on this occasion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafree Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ducato 130 I feel my Ducato is going to self destruct if I try to reverse up my drive which is a problem as driving up puts the habitation door against a bank.It went back to the dealer at WSM last thursday for water ingression mods , I asked for a Fiat rep to come to my house and show me how to reverse up my drive , the dealer said they are aware of the problems and advised me to write to Fiat direct at Slough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ray, Fiat will probably advise you to move to a house with flat drive.(Sorry !) I would do what Andy did, Find a nice steep hill where it is safe to keep reversing up and down. Then just keep doing it until it breaks. If as Fiat says there isn't a problem,then you are doing nothing wrong. When they have dealers all over the Country demanding new Gearboxes/Clutches/DMF Flywheels under warranty. Maybye someone at Fiat will take notice. It should have been 'Fit for Purpose' (a favourite government Phrase) BEFORE it was released for public use. Euro 4 or No. Good Luck !! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Lafree - 2008-01-28 7:32 PM Ducato 130 I feel my Ducato is going to self destruct if I try to reverse up my drive which is a problem as driving up puts the habitation door against a bank.It went back to the dealer at WSM last thursday for water ingression mods , I asked for a Fiat rep to come to my house and show me how to reverse up my drive , the dealer said they are aware of the problems and advised me to write to Fiat direct at Slough. But did you tick the relevant boxes at the top? It's just that I thought the score was the same before your post as now. Apologies if you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 top to night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 So, thanks to Brian's brilliant piece of research, it might be safer to buy a 120ps Peugeot or Citroen engined van, or either of the 160ps vans, rather than either 100ps or a Fiat engined 120ps van? I wonder whether it is the clutch, the flywheel or the gear ratios that differ? Isolating which of these possibles, or combination of, would possibly give Fiat a good clue as to finding a quick and proven cure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Can all of you email me - andystothert@blueyonder.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hello everybody. Thought it might be of benefit to provide a definitive list of what engines are used and where as I am detecting some confusion. Pre X250 chassis Sevel vehicles were 2.0HDi/JTD (Peugeot engine basically the same as used in the 306/307406/407 car ranges) Available with any of the three badges on the bonnet; 2.2HDi (Peugeot/Citroen only and based on the same car type engine) 2.3JTD (Sofim unit for Fiat only); 2.8HDi/JTD (Sofim unit used by Fiat since 1998 and available to the others from 2002 latterly was 127hp with a 'power' option producing 146hp via a variable rate turbo that effectively just uses more fuel) X250 engines are 2.2HDi/M-Jet (Joint venture Ford/Peugeot engine 'Puma' used at 100hp for Fiat and 100hp or 120hp for the others); 2.3M-Jet (Sofim/FPT engine available only on the Fiat chassis at 120 or uniquely for motorhomes at 130hp); 3.0HDi/M-Jet (Sofim/FPT engine available for all three makers at 156hp although Peugeot and Citroen often call it 160hp it is exactly the same engine). The 'Puma' 2.2 engine is almost exactly the same as the unit in 2006 Transit FWD. The fact that the 2.3M-Jet is exclusively available to motorhome converters suggests to me that in addition to the slight gain in power the engine will have been 'mapped' for that market although probably with more successful results going forwards than backwards from what I have read. Hope this helps. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I am a bit confused re 120ps! I thought there were 100, 130 & 160 multijet engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Can the twelve people who have responded to this poll in the affirmative please contact me. I'm going to try and put some pressure on Fiat via VOSA and need as many fellow sufferers to name in an attempt to make this the subject of a safety recall. I may fail, but it will worry them. Cheers email : andystothert@blueyonder.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 zulurita: The power output of MultiJet motors fitted to the latest Fiat Ducatos is exactly as euroserv details, with the 2.3-litre powerplant producing 120bhp for Ducato light-commecial vehicles (LCVs) or 130bhp when installed in chassis intended for conversion into coachbuilt motorhomes. Panel-van conversions like Swift's new Mondial fall outside that category, so will have the 'normal' 120bhp 2.3-litre motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Re this: the 120 is the normal commercial van output as used by the van conversions whilst chassis cab versions supplied to motorhome manufacturers are the 130, which has a different 'chip' which produces another 10PS - whatever they are. The torque remains exactly the same, but kicks in at a slightly increased engine speed so, this has definitely not got anything to do with the juddering thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 uuuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 No one reporting problem with Peugeot or Citroen yet? I'm sure I've read of problems with at least the Peugeot. Come on. Get reporting. Mike H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshague Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 me to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Re the mapping issue our van is the 120PS version as it is a panel van, as are all the panel van conversions with the 2.3 engine, so I don't think that is relevant.What may be more relevant (but who knows) is that the 2.2 5 speed versions don't seem as bad, and they have a lower final drive ratio.But in the end, the folk who know for sure what the problem is (Fiat) aren't telling.I have a letter in my greasy mitts from Fiat UK dated November 06 which recognises this fault so they will certainly know by now what it is. However they refuse to share this knowledge. ANYBODY WITH A JUDDER IN REVERSE WHILST REVERSING ON AN X250 FIAT (late 06 onwards) CAN YOU PLEASE CONTACT ME - andystothert@blueyonder.co.uk I'll give up when they fix it, but not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Andy, I've written a request into my PMH column asking for other owners to try their vans out and report to me. I'll forward any relevant responses to you as and when they come in but it will be a month or two before it hits the shelves. Without experiencing this problem for myself or having the opportunity to examine a van closely its difficult to say what might be causing it, this is where Euroserv has the advantage over me. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I can't register this,( for a friend, who hasn't got internet access,) because I've registered for myself. His vehicle details are: Citroen Relay MWB van conversion. 100ps engine, 5 speed gearbox and YES it does judder in reverse.Mike H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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